Valvrave the Liberator - Episode 10 Discussion / Poll

[KleenexGhost]

Originally Posted by Key Board

Divine Vessel? Avatar?

Heavenly Spirit? Holy Spirit? Can't remember which one the subs use off the top of my head.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Diveman

I'm getting the feeling that massive deaths are coming because of everyone making their wishes. Also what was the point of the rape? not in the sense of why was it needed for the show, but more like why was Haruto forced to do that instead of just possesing people?

Maybe as a Valvrave pilot he has to procreate so that more pilots can be born?

I think it has to do with the "reproduction of the race" Cain was talking about. Also with the fact that Saki was the only female Magius on the Module. Everyone else is either human or male Magius. Notice that with everyone else, Haruto is mostly attempting to bite their necks, not tear their clothes off, even with Takahi.

And Saki was the only one with which his eyes turned red.

Originally Posted by KleenexGhost

Heavenly Spirit? Holy Spirit? Can't remember which one the subs use off the top of my head.

I know ggsubs refers to them as "holy spirits", though that idea has been totally tossed out the window now...

[Haak]

That was an utterly incredible twist at the end and I just can't hate on it because I have to admit that it was very well set up. The hints were there. I was even thinking back on those now obvious hints as I saw it happening and all i could think of was just "Wow Valvrave, I tip my hat to you sir. You've had me there". Although in hindsight, I suppose there are unfortunate implications in making rape a clever twist...

Feel bad for both Haruto and Saki. Whether or not it was consensual, Saki clearly didn't enjoy it and i got the feeling that even if she did consent to it then she only did it because she thought she had to and that's practically as bad as rape. Can't really blame Haruto for it since he obviously didn't want it to happen and was being controlled. The blame ultimately lies with those that created the Valvampirism.

I'm also glad that this episode clarified one thing: Shoko's methods of emotion of over reasoning are probably not going to win out in the end. I just hope the show isn't too cruel to her as a result.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

No, it's not. A significant number of Fall 2012 anime shows had rape in it (off the top of my head I recall Psycho-Pass, Zetsuen no Tempest, and BTOOOM!, but there were probably more). This season, we have all three mecha shows with it (or at least the threat of it), as RubbyRedWolf pointed out.

I don't remember any rape in ZnT, and as for PP - sad as it was, it didn't happen to the main cast.

I haven't watched BTOOOM.

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

You keep saying it's about losing his humanity and him losing something. Does that suddenly make the use of rape here good writing?



You actually want me to explain to you how this is not realistic? Seriously?

That's rather like watching a werewolf or zombie flick and complaining the cannibalism isn't realistic. While true, it misses the point. Heck, you want unrealistic, how about the way the VVV was able to push module 77 without breaking it?

Besides, VCV is right - Haruto sacrificed his humanity. For it to mean something, he pretty much had to murder or rape someone. They went with rape. Why not? Especially as it ties to other aspects of the story.

[Kirarakim]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

That's rather like watching a werewolf or zombie flick and complaining the cannibalism isn't realistic. While true, it misses the point. Heck, you want unrealistic, how about the way the VVV was able to push module 77 without breaking it?

Besides, VCV is right - Haruto sacrificed his humanity. For it to mean something, he pretty much had to murder or rape someone. They went with rape. Why not? Especially as it ties to other aspects of the story.

I never said I am looking for realism in Valvrave itself but when you bring rape into the equation well that is a different story.

Why should I have expected rape in this story? This series hasn't been serious at all up to this point. In fact I have been constantly told we shouldn't take it seriously and the writers are in on the joke. Well there is nothing funny about this.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Besides, VCV is right - Haruto sacrificed his humanity. For it to mean something, he pretty much had to murder or rape someone.

No, he didn't. So no, you and VCV aren't right about this.

In Haruto's own mind, it had already cost him a possible romance with Shoko. It also means he goes completely crazy every now and then, trying to bite people. That's a very significant cost right there, imo. There's no need to add anything on to it.

It's fine if you like the rape plot twist, but let's not pretend it was needed, because it wasn't.

[Traece]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

No, he didn't. So no, you and VCV aren't right about this.

In Haruto's own mind, it had already cost him a possible romance with Shoko. It also means he goes completely crazy every now and then, trying to bite people. That's a very significant cost right there, imo. There's no need to add anything on to it.

It's fine if you like the rape plot twist, but let's not pretend it was needed, because it wasn't.

I agree. There are plenty of other ways to do any one event, and this is merely one of the options. Although admittedly they made an interesting observation about rape being surprisingly common in the last year or so. I hadn't really thought about it, to be honest.

Honestly, I think the whole concept is rather shallow in itself. I'm sure there's a grand meaning to it, but I can't help but find it odd that Sunrise has decided to craft a plot based around space vampire rape.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

I never said I am looking for realism in Valvrave itself but when you bring rape into the equation well that is a different story.

Why should I have expected rape in this story? This series hasn't been serious at all up to this point. In fact I have been constantly told we shouldn't take it seriously and the writers are in on the joke. Well there is nothing funny about this.

Well, it could have been murder. Aina already died, so you couldn't have complained death came completely out of the blue.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

No, he didn't. So no, you and VCV aren't right about this.

In Haruto's own mind, it had already cost him a possible romance with Shoko.

Except everyone at the time agreed it was, indeed, just in his own mind, instead of something with a bit more reality to it. And it was looking like he was starting to get over it.

It also means he goes completely crazy every now and then, trying to bite people.

Inconvenient to be sure, but if he'd just needed to hijack someone's body once in a while, it wouldn't have been so bad. To the point I wonder why they didn't find a volunteer and get it over with much earlier. Unless they just like hitting him or something.

That's a very significant cost right there, imo. There's no need to add anything on to it.

It's manageable, or looked like it was. Saki stole his body for a while, and it wasn't a big deal.

It's fine if you like the rape plot twist, but let's not pretend it was needed, because it wasn't.

Rape or homicide. Pick one.

Or some insidious loss of emotion and attachment to human beings, but that'd have been a completely different direction.

Or, yes, they could have kept treating the resignation from humanity as completely meaningless.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Or, yes, they could have kept treating the resignation from humanity as completely meaningless.

Personally, I always took his newfound immortality as being the meaningful representation of his "resignation from humanity".

Many a sci-fi show (including the likes of Star Trek) have argued that mortality is an essential part of being human. Many a sci-fi show have argued that immortality is a bad thing, it should be noted.

[Kirarakim]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Personally, I always took his newfound immortality as being the meaningful representation of his "resignation from humanity".

Many a sci-fi show (including the likes of Star Trek) have argued that mortality is an essential part of being human. Many a sci-fi show have argued that immortality is a bad thing, it should be noted.

Lets not forget Madoka which was able to use the loss of humanity without murder and/or rape.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Personally, I always took his newfound immortality as being the meaningful representation of his "resignation from humanity".

Many a sci-fi show (including the likes of Star Trek) have argued that mortality is an essential part of being human. Many a sci-fi show have argued that immortality is a bad thing, it should be noted.

The "immortality is bad for the sake of it" shows always fail. They always end up with some crazy excuse about someone being imprisoned and suffer forever. Further, note that it is mostly Western. Asia never had that problem, immortality has always been a good thing there. Probably because there wasn't a religion promising a guaranteed better life after death.

The anti-immortality movement is just a defence mechanism, to lie to one self about how the inevitable isn't too bad. I silly find it silly that the Bicentennial Man film ended with the message that a kind robot committed suicide because death was the only way he could be legally accepted as a human-being. That a mortal is SUPERIOR to an Immortal. And so a robot who served humanity unquestionable all his life gave himself a lethal injection. Because humans told him he had to, to be one of them.

Look, back on topic, Immortality in VVV IS actually a bad thing, but not because of the immortality. Specifically, with Haruto he had to pay the price of obeying VVV-tan. And since he lives forever he would be a slave forever. This is not the fault of the immortality, but the fault of the price he had to pay to get it. If you want to play the immortality as a curse card, you are watching the wrong show. Indeed, if you want immortality to be bad, don't watch anything made in Asia.

[Avrorrange]

Someone seriously needs to sabotage that AI.

[Kirarakim]

Immortality has NOT always been shown as a positive thing in Asian media. Clearly someone has never read Mermaid's Saga.

Natsume Yuujinchou also has a story focused on the drawbacks of immortality

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

Lets not forget Madoka which was able to use the loss of humanity without murder and/or rape.

Spoiler for Madoka Magica:

You forget the bit where they turn into witches and have to be put down before they kill a lot of people.

[Kirarakim]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Spoiler for Madoka Magica:

You forget the bit where they turn into witches and have to be put down before they kill a lot of people.

The concept of "loss of humanity" happens well before that twist in Madoka.

[KleenexGhost]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

I think it has to do with the "reproduction of the race" Cain was talking about. Also with the fact that Saki was the only female Magius on the Module. Everyone else is either human or male Magius. Notice that with everyone else, Haruto is mostly attempting to bite their necks, not tear their clothes off, even with Takahi.

And Saki was the only one with which his eyes turned red.

Some people on the TvTropes forums have been throwing around the theory that Haruto's condition got that extreme because he didn't bite anyone for a while.

Kinda reminds me of what happens in vampire media when one doesn't feed for a while and goes berserk.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

The concept of "loss of humanity" happens well before that twist in Madoka.

And, as with Haruto, the problem was mostly in the head of a character.

[NeutralZero]

That's the most likely explanation to his action or OS-tan's action...
after living with L-Elf's and he's been so kind to not let Haruto bite him... or have his meal...

another added factor will be Haruto himself since he isn't aware of the feeding system... there's been no body jacking since the death of megane and he has no reason to jack someone else...

Saki's offer to have Haruto bite her might be the best option but the offer was done way too late...
also Saki did prevent Haruto from biting the Takahi in the elevator, that time his eyes were not yet red so he'll probably just bite her off... a really ironic karma...

[Winterson]

Originally Posted by KleenexGhost

Some people on the TvTropes forums have been throwing around the theory that Haruto's condition got that extreme because he didn't bite anyone for a while.

Kinda reminds me of what happens in vampire media when one doesn't feed for a while and goes berserk.

If only true blood exists, maybe, maybe, maybe. . . .

[KleenexGhost]

Originally Posted by Winterson

If only true blood exists, maybe, maybe, maybe. . . .

Oh God, now I'm thinking of Haruto with Bill's voice