Higurashi Episode 17 Discussion / Poll

[Idle Eve]

Okay, where to begin? Alright, I've watched Higurashi from the start to the most recent episode. I have to say that around 13- 15 my faith dwindled. Now, with the recent Shion arcs, I have to say I'm ready to place serious considerations into studying Higurashi. As a writer (and not very good at that.), I think it's important to be able to engage the readers into placing false assumptions and/or clues that make the reading intriguing. Well, whenever I read, it feels fun to see how facts add up.

Now... enough about my bias. I was always curious about Shion and Satoshi's relationship. Also, I was curious about Shion's mentality as well. In this arc, we get a dose of both and I can firmly say...

Spoiler for title:

Shion needs a nice dose of chill the f-- I mean. She needs serious help after hurting Satoko. Well, that's what I thought. For now, since I love Shion so much, I think I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt and say that her abusive family puts her on the brink of a psychological breakdown. To understand what I mean, all one needs to do is to look at the "distinction" they placed upon Shion. By isolating Shion (social distinction), they make her an outcast and create a potential threat with emotional problems (love being the first that comes to mind). By hurting Shion (the ritual of distinction), they give her more than enough reason to take up the sword and fight. At this point, I'm all for the grandma's slaughter. Not necessarily Mion... For some reason, I think she was torn between her bond between her sister and the duties as the heir.

Hmm... some problems I saw with this episode? Well, I think only one bothers me.

Spoiler for title:

How could Satoshi, a loving brother (?), forgive Shion for throwing around her sister? I can't even forumlate a hypothesis regarding this. Anyone want to try? How about you, Sushi? We both do like Satosh-- I mean Satoko.

--- Currently Reading TIPS.
I need to check somethings out.
* Feel free to talk to me on Aim or Msn. I need organize somethings on Higurashi so I can write a better story.

[Archuka]

Watching the torture scene made me feel sick. I think I'd pass out before I could do anything if I was in the same situation as Shion.

The episode was excellent in my opinion, just like the rest of Maekashi-hen (except some weird things like the super strenght that has been present in every arc). If I ever watch this again I'm going to skip over the torture scene, though. I just can't handle it.

[Matrim]

Very good episode, my respect for Shion probably tripled after watching it.

Spoiler:

Satoshi calling Mion the day after the incident in school was quite weird.
Ooishi made an amateurish mistake by letting Shion and Satoshi talk for a few minutes and come up with an alibi before interrogating them. Shion standing up against Ooishi and then against her grandmother was very well done. And of course, the nail removal scene was so good it hurt.

Rika telling Satoko that it has been decided and her pain was going to end this very day was chilling. Rika is either a prophet or she somehow learned about Satoshi's plan. The third option is that someone else had planned to kill the aunt and Rika knew about that.
Too bad they didn't really show the face of the murderer of the aunt, although it seems obvious it was Satoshi.

Now it seems very likely that Shion was the evil sister in Watanagashi. But since this is Higurashi, it could well be the other way round.

As for Ooishi's theory shown in the TIPS, it does sound likely the Sonozakis struck a deal with Satoshi. But the part where it is said he would be crushed of the teddy bear had been bought seemed a bit of a stretch to me, surely he would be able to think of another present to buy with this money? And I just don't see him striking a deal with the Sonozakis - what guarantees would he have they would really protect Satoko? In Tatarigoroshi-hen they didn't seem too eager to protect her from her uncle, unless they were behind his murder, of course.

[BakaOnna]

Another 10 from me. I'm loving this arc, but damn, that torture scene was brutal. >.< That was so hard to watch. I feel really bad for Shion now.

With that aside, am I the only one that noticed the really off-coloring of Rika's hair. It's supposed to be dark blue, kind of matching the the sub coloring, but it's a light blue. I thought that was really strange. Animation error, I guess. But man, what a great episode. Can't wait for 18.

[aliensporebomb]

Yes, the torture was brutal beyond belief. Mion was either cold as ice or she was
more or less forced to toe the family line or she too would be punished. Brutal.

I can imagine the ending now of this arc given the beginning. Brrrr....

I'm beginning to think nobody gets a happy ending in this story but it's very
compelling stuff.

I need to go watch a love story or something, I was having Higarashi dreams
that were very bizzarre right around the last episode, after seeing the effects
of the "Sonozaki Family Nail Salon" I'm just a little more freaked out by them.

Mion, how could you do it? And now I understand Shion's motives for what
happened a lot more.

[Shuin4]

Originally Posted by BakaOnna

With that aside, am I the only one that noticed the really off-coloring of Rika's hair. It's supposed to be dark blue, kind of matching the the sub coloring, but it's a light blue. I thought that was really strange. Animation error, I guess.

I noticed that too. at first i thought it was some kind of effect they tried pulling off with the sunset, but nobody else's hair was lighter either.

oh god, that torture scene. and oh god, teppei really knows how to pick 'em. their aunt looked and sounded like a man. and oryou really scared me when she shouted at shion.

also, can't wait to see who shion was choking (at least that's what it looked like) in the next episode.

[Idle Eve]

Frankly, I just want some more "Ni-Pah" and a bit of Shion Sonozaki revenge. Is that so much to ask? ;_;. Well, according to many of you, not really. I'd think that the attack of the Shion Ninjas would be in order after that trip to the Higurashi Nail Salon. I honestly don't have much sympathy for a family that does that to their children. Ugh. I must have flinched twice and clenched my right ear. Not the best reaction to an otherwise gruelly torture, but at least I didn't throw up.

[BakaOnna]

Speaking of Higurashi related dreams. I had one the night after I finish ep. 8 of Watanagashi-hen. I was chased by Mion or Shion with her hammer and nails. >.< I don't really remember what happened in the end because I woke up. When I did, I was like, "Whoa... this series is not good to watch right before you sleep."

Anyway, here's stuff I've gotten so far from this arc, and this is my prediction of Watanagashi-hen. Some of it might be really repetative since it's a summization of what I've gathered.

Mion or Shion:

Spoiler:

First we find out that Shion is the odd one of the family, whom no one in the Sonozaki family cares about. She was even supposed to die right after she's born. She escapes from her boarding school and calls Mion. The two sisters are really close together and Mion allowed Shion to dress up as her so she can find work in Hinamizawa.

Spoiler:

This obviously means that Mion and Shion has switched in Watanagashi-hen. Almost everyone has already realized this. Here's what I think:
When Kei-chan first meets Shion in Angel Mort, it had to be Shion. She tells him that her sister has told her about him. Keiichi doesn't believe her and think its actually Mion pretending to be more feminine.

Next, the bentou and the bullies. The person who gave the bentou was Mion dressed up as Shion. Mion probably told Shion about liking Keiichi, similar to how Shion told Mion she liked Satoshi. Shion allows her sister to dress up like her, and Mion, dress up as Shion, gives Kei-chan the bentou. It's also hinted to be Mion because Keiichi had told she and Rena that he was hungry and his parents weren't home. During the scene where he's about to return it, and he gets attacked by the delinquients, that had to be Mion, still pretending to be Shion. When I read the manga ch. 4, it went into more detail on the scene, and it actually showed the more "demon" side of her.

The one who took Keiichi into the Shrine had to be Shion, since, like someone else has mentioned, she probably wants revenge against Onibaba and Mion. To do this, she brings Keiichi into the Shrine to get him in trouble. After he leaves the shrine, Mion, Rena, Rika, and Sakoto meets up with him. There, Mion asks him if he went into the shrine and he lies. I still can't figure out which twin was the one that asked him the same question the second time.

In episode 7, during the latter scene, that had to be Shion. I figured this out after watching ep. 9 of Tatarigoroshi-hen. Shion likes Satoshi and blames Sakoto for all the pain she's caused him. She was probably also the person that caused the disappearance of Rika and Sakoto.

In episode 8, I'm guess the one in the cage was Mion and the one who's actually "Mion" is Shion. First, she listens to Rena, and from what we've seen in this answer arc, Shion is wary of Rena. Shion also never showed the tatoo that was supposed to be on her back since Rena stopped her.

Now the problem I'm having is who is who during the telephone scenes, and who stabbed Keiichi. Shion had supposedly jumped off her apartment window at the time Keiichi got stabbed, and we find out Mion has been in the well. As for that last scene in Watanagashi-hen, that was probably just Keiichi's imagination, since it was right after Oishi had told him the dead is walking.

Whew, that was long. Anyway, I'll try to figure out more during the telephone scenes and the last few parts after seeing the rest of this arc.

Now for the relationship between Satoshi and Keiichi:

Spoiler:

Ever since the first arc, we've always been told that Keiichi is doing exactly or close to what Satoshi did. Heck, even their personalities are alike. In this arc, we find out that Satoshi used to be on the baseball team and was really good. He took on the abuse for Sakoto, and he hated his aunt and uncle. From this episode, we see "him" beat his aunt to death with a baseball bat. He had saved up a sum of money to buy Sakoto a birthday present before he leaves. He believes he is cursed and being watched by Oyashiro-sama. Oishi and his policemen find him the next day and suspect him as the killer. Stuff happens between him and Shion that I don't feel like going into since we all know after seeing this episode. Then we find out that he disappeared and he's not the suspected person to have killed the aunt.

Spoiler:

Let's compare this to what Keiichi did in Tatarigoroshi-hen, shall we? Satoshi called Mion to apologize for the other day. Mion hangs up on him and tells Shion. Shion then calls him pretending to be Mion. Satoshi tells Shion to bring Sakoto to the festival since he'll be doring something. Then they talk a bit about Oyashiro-sama and the curse.

In Tatarigoroshi-hen, we're believed that Keiichi called Mion. Now here's the problem. Who did he really call; Mion or Shion? It's hinted that its Mion since Shion is barely in the arc. In this arc, we see the actual scene of them at the festival. The one with the group could be Mion or Shion dressed up as Mion. If it was Shion dressed up as Mion, then where's the real Mion? Back home in her Estate? But it would make sense if Keiichi had called Mion during the arc, since she liked him and stuff.

Now for the actual murder. Satoshi called the aunt and told her he found a good chest that could be sold. She rode over to it and Satoshi beat her to death. We don't see his face, just a shadow of a person. I still think it's Satoshi since all evidence points to him. Keiichi, well, you know what he did. I don't feel like explaining it. In the end, Satoshi was believe to have "disappeared", while for Keiichi, the whole village got destroyed and he died a few days later after the interview. From what I've gather, both of them were experience some sort of influence, shall I say, of Oyashiro-sama. Satoshi feeling he's being watched, and Keiichi hearing the footsteps.

Okay, I don't exactly know what I wrote that last thing for since it was just basically a summerization of the 3rd arc and how it was related to Satoshi. I guess it helps me process my thoughts. Anyway, I'll come out with more once this arc finishes. And I must say, this is one of the longest posts I've ever written in all the forums I've been to so far, and I've been on a lot of forums.

[Sinestra]

well i dont even know where to start i gave it a 10 and i continue to love this series. My opinion Shion has always been very good and it has only gotten better with this Arc. The Distinction scene really made my stomach turn. I dont even want to think about the pain one would feel from it. That scene remeinded me of some loyalty test i have read about from diffrent countries in the past. where one would inficict harm upon themselves to prove loyalty or to achieve adult hood.

Spoiler for Where to begin:

My thoughts on Shion are that of a serverly psychologically damaged person. I cant blame her for being unstable. First they isolated her to avoid a stuggle for head of the Sonozaki clan, they basically made her an outcast depriving her of affection and basic human contact. Its no wonder she has turned out the way she has being deprived of those basic human needs its no wonder when she meets someone as troubled as her should fall in love with him. At this point i only see bad things ahead for basically everyone Shion will snap the preview the next episode talked about the demon being awakend and something about a tazer which Shion does carry. I am all for the grandmother being done in hopefully very slowly, I however dont want to see Mion done in i think she is a product of her fate even doing the Distinction scene she showed signs of remorse and tried in her own way to tell Shion to hang in there. oh now i have to go watch something happy i always feel depressed after i watch Higurashi.


By the way the series is based of a real book right? does anyone know where i can find the book i would love to read it.

[myopius]

I love Higurashi.

This arc's narration by Shion made it really unique. It wasn't like the Keiichi arcs or the police guy arc... You had a knowledgeable villager describing various aspects of the plot's background. Excepting the one incident in the first episode of this arc, Shion has been very kind and empathic in her perspective, and I really enjoy her character.

(I don't have any deep theories related to this arc, but I'm just posting out of the desire to express my love for Higurashi.)

[Idle Eve]

Originally Posted by Sinestra

That scene remeinded me of some loyalty test i have read about from diffrent countries in the past. where one would inficict harm upon themselves to prove loyalty or to achieve adult hood.

To be honest, I felt the same way. I hope Shion doesn't feel too much pain afterwards, honestly... Having someone do that to you is one thing, but hurting yourself that much is another. Anyway, about that loyalty test, I recall that after the Sophomore boys pulled a prank on a teacher (they wroter over his car), the male teachers all got them together and had a long talk. Somewhere during the talk, we came across a story by our biology teacher (I respect this guy greatly) and he told us about his trip to Africa as a Peace Corps. Apparently he got the chance to see this tribes loyalty test where they had to...circumcize... a boys genitals. Painful? YES. The only painkiller was one could bucket of water... After that experience, the boys were then considered men. Going back to Shion, I believe that she proved herself. My respects, honestly.

Originally Posted by Sinestra

Spoiler for Where to begin:

My thoughts on Shion are that of a serverly psychologically damaged person. I cant blame her for being unstable. First they isolated her to avoid a stuggle for head of the Sonozaki clan, they basically made her an outcast depriving her of affection and basic human contact. Its no wonder she has turned out the way she has being deprived of those basic human needs its no wonder when she meets someone as troubled as her should fall in love with him. At this point i only see bad things ahead for basically everyone Shion will snap the preview the next episode talked about the demon being awakend and something about a tazer which Shion does carry. I am all for the grandmother being done in hopefully very slowly, I however dont want to see Mion done in i think she is a product of her fate even doing the Distinction scene she showed signs of remorse and tried in her own way to tell Shion to hang in there. oh now i have to go watch something happy i always feel depressed after i watch Higurashi.


By the way the series is based of a real book right? does anyone know where i can find the book i would love to read it.

Regarding Shion, we pretty much have the same opinion. The Arc did a good job with the "distinctions" placed upon Shion, so I won't go any further.

Hmm. About the book, I know nothign about it, but I certainly would love to read it too. Sadly, I'd bet it would be only in Japanese and given that, it would be a tough read for non-Japanese speakers.

[LostBlue]

Concerning Satoshi forgiving Mion...
1) Mion is close to pretty much all the classmates.

2) It's the recent pressure on Satoshi that's pushed him away from EVERYONE

3) Satoshi really is a kind person inside

4) This is just my opinion, but Shion really didn't do much to Satoko compared to what happens to her at home EVERYDAY.

5) After cooling down a bit, Satoshi realizes that regardless of all his doubts with the Sonozaki Family, Mion (and Shion) have always supported him

6) If Satoshi killed his Aunt planning it the way K1 did to Teppei in Tatarigoroshi, he wanted to secure Satoko's safety first. Mion is the leader of his the group of friends. Rika is too young. Rena is too new = doesn't know her (just moved back). Mion can take care of Satoko the best while he is away.

--

Originally Posted by Sinestra

oh now i have to go watch something happy i always feel depressed after i watch Higurashi.

This is soooo true. This is probably one of the main reasons why I think I love Haruhi as much as I did, b/c I watching it inbetween the chapters ^^;;; Yea, reading the Interview (Tatarigoroshi epilogue) at 2AM wasn't good for my heart.

By the way the series is based of a real book right?

A Sound Novel (game). I personally don't like calling it a game since there really isn't gameplay. You just click and read. No choices. Just read like a novel with creepy sound effects, character portraits, and great BGM music (Dai-san <3). Himeya will have them. The novels IMO are a lot better. You do need a fairly good knowledge of Japanese to read them tho.

[Sushi-Y]

Originally Posted by LostBlue

4) This is just my opinion, but Shion really didn't do much to Satoko compared to what happens to her at home EVERYDAY.

lol, so what, like this?

Shion: "I'm sorry for the other day, Satoshi-kun"
Satoshi: "lol it's okay, Satoko gets bitchslapped by her aunt everyday anyway, a few slams against lockers is no big deal. Actually, you should do it more often, it might make her more sturdy, ha-ha-ha-ha-h*kabang*UGH-"
Shion: "Satoshi-kun!?"
*silence*
Shion: "Satoshi-kun!? Satoshi-kun!? Satoshi-kun Satoshi-kun Satoshi-kun Satoshi-kun Satoshi-kun Satoshi-kun Sato-"
Satoko: "...ni-ni- took some time out after bumping his head into my frying pan while I was heating it, he'll be fi- well no, he won't be fine, but please don't mind us, o-ho-ho-ho-ho! You're next bitch"*click*
*beep beep beep beep*

Ni-ni- does not allow any form of abuse towards Satoko, no matter how big or small it may be.

Satoshi simply forgave Shion because he trusts her as a friend (well, he thought she was Mion at the time, but no matter, Satoshi trusted her, that's why he was willing to leave Satoko in her care).

[LostBlue]

well, I just thought the anime over-did it a bit. I mean, Shion grabbibg the chair is going too far, but up until that pt I don't think Satoko herself really knew what was happening to her. Personally, I think Satoko didn't tell anything to Ni-Ni. Ni-Ni saw Satoko on the ground crying and deduce the rest for himself. With him being so distant to everyone, I just don't see him asking anyone what happened. Shion didn't bruise Satoko (unlike how Teppei would) so, that's what I mean it isn't as serious as what happens at home. After looking back at it, he may have thought it really isn't as bad as it looks.

[Shiroth]

The second Shion walked into that temple, i just knew something bad was going to happen.. poor poor Shion. The fact that she missed the second time was just even more murder to watch..

And yet again, even more mystery adds to that what already stands about Satoshi.

[FatPianoBoy]

Yeah, as soon as I saw that familiar door, my heart hit the ground. I was actually prepared for quite a lot worse than the fingernail deal (lunch, anyone?), although that was still painful to watch. Mion seemed to be in some sort of trance the whole time. I doubt she'd have been able to do that to her sister normally. I won't be too upset when Oryou gets something like that done to herself.

Poor Shion...

[Darklightz]

Now that was an intense episode.

Spoiler:

Why does everyone think Mion was in some sort of turmoil while Shion was being tortured?It seems to be that Mion like her sister yes,but her top priority is the affairs of the Sonozaki family.

It was really interesting seeing Satoshi do the exact same thing Keichii did (although chronilogically it's the other way around)

And is it just me or does the insanity always to a critical point when a guy picks up the fated baseball bat?

[Cardiac Glycoside]

Why is there any doubt that Satoshi killed his aunt?

[BakaOnna]

Maybe that's the answer to the mystery. The baseball bat is cursed by Oyashiro-sama and whoever picks it up dies in a certain amount of days. Let's say... 3.

But given this episode, we can now assume "that incident" that one of the twins mentioned back in ep. 6 of Watanagashi-hen, was this incident.

[Gains]

Originally Posted by BakaOnna

Maybe that's the answer to the mystery. The baseball bat is cursed by Oyashiro-sama and whoever picks it up dies in a certain amount of days. Let's say... 3.

But given this episode, we can now assume "that incident" that one of the twins mentioned back in ep. 6 of Watanagashi-hen, was this incident.

Regarding "that incident"... in Watanagashi, the one who is angry of it was Mion. Until this Meakashi episode however, things went against Shion all the time. Being unable to go to public without disguising as Mion, making Satoshi angry by throwing Satoko like a rag doll (although that scene is my guilty pleasure I hate crying kids), lowering herself by having to apologize to Oryou, and the Kejime. I think Shion is the one who should be angry.

Man...getting to see the Kejime torture repeatedly is a pain. She did all that and it did not guarantee the safety of the people related to her hiding and Satoshi. I agree with the others though, the second hit is the most painful for me.