Lucky Star - Episode 03 Discussion / Poll

[Telliamed]

Originally Posted by aorta

At the time of her entrance exams the PS2 was the best and the other two are just old and horrible. You can buy older game systems. The Pippin and 3DO are just 2 examples of obscure dead consoles, they could have easily used older systems (but most people would consisder even the Famicom to be better than those two).

I have a hard time believing there are that many still in circulation. Maybe at a few junk shops, but even then no one would waste money or shelf space for a Pippen.

But then I realised, maybe her father didn't actually need to buy the consoles. All he'd have to do is pull them out of storage, right? If he's as much otaku as I've been hearing, he'd likely have a Pippen and 3DO piled in with the Dreamcast, Master System, Jaguar64, and of course a 2600.

(I'd take a 3DO over any Nintendo pre-cube. I first played FIFA soccer on a 3DO and it was astounding. A lot of arcade games used 3DO boards even long after the console was discontinued.)

Originally Posted by Vexx

I've never been able to figure out the method by which anime decides to mangle a popular brand name or not ("SOMY" anyone?). They probably want to refer to other properties without actually GIVING them free advertising. The BEEPs are really bizarre - I thought she was being profane at first.

My favorite being the popular fast-food chain, "WcDonalds". KyoAni got around that in episode 2 with strategic placement of the customer's legs.

And wasn't there a Simpsons where Homer bought a Somy television?

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Except that 'lolicon' and 'pedophile' are two different things ...

In the contest of why she said it though, it fits. She was talking about how she has her own brand of obsessive fans, and "lolicon" was not said with endearment in mind. She was being condescending and rude to her own fanbase (and indirectly, the fanbase in general), with an intent to insult. In English, using "pedophile" would be more insulting than lolicon...

[Vexx]

Which is why I said "whatever" (I'd have probably translated it as "lolita-fans" if I were going for localization but it depends on whether one thinks she's boasting of her minions or not ).

As far as the gaming systems go.... it isn't whether they are popular NOW or not... its the fact that if she didn't do well, the level of obsolete would go higher and higher the worse she did. In Japan, less-than-the-latest is uncool (that's why all their antique furniture is being imported over here to the American continent where its loved; the young people in Japan don't want it).

At *some* point, old systems are so obsolete they become retro-cool though so Dad Izumi's tactic only works up to a certain point.

[Telliamed]

"If you don't clean your room, I'll make you play year-old video games."
"Aww, that's so unfair."

[errorrrr]

In my opinion... the essence of fansubbing is keeping the words and contexts as close to original as possible... i mean... seriously... that's what makes fansub, fansub, and localization, localization... I am very against localization which loses a lot of the meanings during the translation. What I advocate is a style of conservative-translation.... anyways enough of my blabbering :3 look forward to ep 4.

[WanderingKnight]

In my opinion... the essence of fansubbing is keeping the words and contexts as close to original as possible... i mean... seriously... that's what makes fansub, fansub, and localization, localization... I am very against localization which loses a lot of the meanings during the translation. What I advocate is a style of conservative-translation....

Not even conservative translation goes as far as some fansubbers have. It's much easier to pop up hundred of footnotes on cultural subjects and directly untranslatable stuff, but what shows best the skill of a translator is reaching the same effect without resorting to that. The thing with translation is, you'll always have losses, so since you can't maximize the gain, you need to minimize the loss. "Localization", as you call it, is not part of the translator's jargon. But it's the translator's duty to gather such an understanding of the source language and the target language, that he's able to transform the content in a completely different context, into another one that fits much better into the target context.

There is not such a thing as an equivalence between one language and another. That's why I (and most professional translators) think that blindly adjusting the target text to the source text is a feat of a poor translator.

[errorrrr]

Originally Posted by WanderingKnight

Not even conservative translation goes as far as some fansubbers have. It's much easier to pop up hundred of footnotes on cultural subjects and directly untranslatable stuff, but what shows best the skill of a translator is reaching the same effect without resorting to that. The thing with translation is, you'll always have losses, so since you can't maximize the gain, you need to minimize the loss. "Localization", as you call it, is not part of the translator's jargon. But it's the translator's duty to gather such an understanding of the source language and the target language, that he's able to transform the content in a completely different context, into another one that fits much better into the target context.

There is not such a thing as an equivalence between one language and another. That's why I (and most professional translators) think that blindly adjusting the target text to the source text is a feat of a poor translator.

What you are suggesting is definitely what should be done for professional documents and such. However, these are pop cultural puns we are talking about... when you change the whole context, i believe it misleads the viewer. Say you watch the translated version, and then your friend who is fluent in jp have a discussion with you on the anime, you tell him cookies, and he goes sausage... what the heck??

That's just my view on these cultural things. In addition, some of the changed context totally changed the original script... Anyone could make up a whole script for an episode of Lucky Star and still make sense... I think it's a translators job to TRANSLATE the MEANING of the words both literally, and contextually; but not REWRITING the words to FIT literally and contextually.

[aorta]

Originally Posted by Telliamed

But then I realised, maybe her father didn't actually need to buy the consoles. All he'd have to do is pull them out of storage, right? If he's as much otaku as I've been hearing, he'd likely have a Pippen and 3DO piled in with the Dreamcast, Master System, Jaguar64, and of course a 2600.

Yes Also a PC-Engine.

Pippen? I don't believe they exist.

[Maveric]

I had a Master System. They kick so much ass over the NES.

So if she was to get a PS2 for a B, I wonder what she'd have gotten for an A.

[Vexx]

I don't really have a problem with wanderingknight's slant on things as long as he's not suggesting "donuts and candy" are an okay substitute for "mochi and sushi"

More seriously... the "egg and sausage" trick is a nice bipolar example. The "egg" workaround a.f.k. came up with was beautifully done (minimum awkwardness, maximum effect) catching the spirit of the idea. The cookie bit.. otoh.... really failed. Every layperson I've shown the sequence to in my worthless office survey said, "what???"
Might have been better dropping that or going whole hog into left field with some comparison of black&white directly to Oreos or peppered grits (at least those go with eggs).

Hmmm ... "localization" is really just a term used by translators (at least the ones that work in one of the offices I support) for translation that requires just what you speak of (content transformation) usually involving phrases and concepts without direct 1:1 mapping. I will say its a term lifted from the work of software localization though.

I'll ask about and see if there's a more academically correct way to describe the concept though.... localization just seemed a natural fit for levels beyond literal+grammarfix translation.

I'm thinking more like errorrrr though... if I think a joke I saw on a show is the funniest thing since Weebl&Bob but it turns out to be purely an invention of the translator... its misleading and giving credit where none is due.

I don't want to get all whacked out about the issue. Some translations are just fine for some audiences -- you have to decide which audience you care more about or are trying to target. If I'm 'splaining quantum mechanics, the words I choose depend on the audience and the less trained the audience is --- the less accurate the words will end up being that are chosen (an analogy of an analogy of...).

I just haven't met many fansub viewers that want to have their hand held any more than absolutely necessary but as always, YMMV.

[Daniel E.]

Whew, just watched the episode; I think I managed to read everything posted so far (had to quick read a few post though. )

Eps. 3 was nice, but I'll still take eps. 2 over this one.

Originally Posted by [Woland]

Ok let's count those with an Akira's Avatar

Hmmm, and here I was planning on changing mine for a Tsukasa one this week; Hope Akira doesn't go all psycho on me now.

Originally Posted by Vexx

Her "fake-happy" is quite manic... but the joke is winding down and I really can't see it going for 20 more episodes without some substantial change.

I am still cool with Lucky Channel so far, but I agree about the whole thing getting old if they dont change it soon.

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by Daniel E.

I am still cool with Lucky Channel so far. But I agree about the whole thing getting old if they dont change it soon.

Yeah, by episode three i was kinda hoping Lucky Channel wouldn't appear this episode. It could be because i was finding episode three to be so relaxing, though it was episode two that had me thinking Lucky Channel seems to be repeating.

Its fun, but not something i wanna keep seeing for 24 episodes.

[Ffenix Rising]

Originally Posted by aorta

Pippen? I don't believe they exist.

Are you serious?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Pippin

[Telliamed]

Originally Posted by Ffenix Rising

Are you serious?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Pippin

For that matter... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ROUS
But I think Mr. Artery was joking.

I was quite the Apple geek (no, not those guys) at the time of Pippen. At first I was like and then as the technical details emerged I was then I saw the kinds of games being made for it and

So when Microsoft announced the XBox, I wasn't quite sure what to think. Of course, I see now one should never underestimate the Evil Empire's ability to get what they want by throwing gobs of money around.

(that was a wierd tyop... "shound lever")

[WanderingKnight]

I think it's a translators job to TRANSLATE the MEANING of the words both literally, and contextually; but not REWRITING the words to FIT literally and contextually.

In fact, many times a whole rewriting of a phrase is the only way around it. You'd be surprised to know how many "rewriting of words to fit" are out there in official translations, even more when the issue deals with languages diametrically opposed as English and Japanese. I'm speaking from my personal learning experience in the career I'm following, that's all. A translator doesn't translate just words. People could grab a damn dictionary if that was all that took to understand a language.

[Vexx]

I'm doing a QC on a sub right at the moment.... believe me, sometimes you have to completely rewrite the structure of a sentence so it doesn't sound hideous and explicitly add implied sentence structures so that it makes sense to english ears.

So in that respect, I'm not terribly far from WanderingKnight's viewpoint. Where it gets really complicated is in idiomatic phrases and 'cultural proverb' equivalences (english examples: throw baby out with bathwater... lead a horse to water but can't make it drink... ) Japanese has its whole own set of these things (I have a 2-inch thick book of them), never mind the mythological or historical contexts (e.g. he's a regular Einstein, she's as mercurial as Hera ... ooh double context). Puns are the toughest though, since by definition they're just going to sound odd if left literal (without footnotes).... but sometimes it just has to be brainstormed.

I prefer leaving Shinto references alone, for example, and either doing the little dance a.f.k. did with Tanabata dialog .. or just providing a footnote or two.

Ironically, some of my worst problems are with just plain bad writing - wretched dialog. Restraining myself from improving basically awful lines

[Fixen]

This episode is Kona-chan x Kagami. Nothing else is relevant. ^^;;

Is it just me or is Kona-chan kind of attracted to her? She seems to directly tease Kagami just to see her pissed off (and then turn away with a XD expression).

[Vexx]

They're like matter and anti-matter ... they can't resist it. But before dancey little thoughts of yuri jump around, though we can suspect Kona of bi-ambivalent thoughts - Kagami is basically a "good" girl who will probably end up doing the "right thing" (but is probably destined to be mildly miserable).
(note: using those terms strictly in the traditional sense).
They're destined to be good friends who torture each other throughout life.

[FatPianoBoy]

Yukari and Nyamo: The Early Years

:3

[Skane]

Originally Posted by FatPianoBoy

Yukari and Nyamo: The Early Years

:3

Unless Kagami and Konata undergo radical personality shifts, that comparison will not work.

Cheers.