Fate/Zero - Episode 13 Discussion / Poll

[SgCloud]

It is kinda disappointing in my opinion how people can't appreciate the great quality of the dialogues in Fate/Zero.

[MeoTwister5]

Originally Posted by Proto

There's too many people complaining about the series being dialogue heavy. I completely agree with Reck here: people should have realized a long time ago what type of series this is.

Originally Posted by biodude711

People still don't seem to understand that this series is not your typical action-packed shonen show. This is a Type-Moon production, which means that there is going to be a lot of dialogue. IMO, dialogue makes characters more three dimensional and more interesting.

Fate/Zero is still one of my Top 5 anime's for this year and the wait for the second half is going to be a killer.

Originally Posted by Reckoner

Talking is action . I would think people would have realized by now that this isan extremely heavy dialog story. But oh well. Continue projecting your desire to see an extremely action packed show

I'm going to chalk it up on the possibility that it's all because of DEEN's adaptation. I'm sure we know that the series lost a hell of a lot when DEEN adapted it.

[sento]

Originally Posted by SgCloud

It is kinda disappointing in my opinion how people can't appreciate the great quality of the dialogues in Fate/Zero.

Is funny because then we see the poll and we have Perfect 10 winning by a decent margin...

[.:Jason:.]

Originally Posted by biodude711

Fate/Zero is still one of my Top 5 anime's for this year and the wait for the second half is going to be a killer.

Same. Number one on my list, personally. And while I don't like having to wait until April, I still think this was a pretty good ending. We got character deveelopment and the beginning of what seems to be an amazing fight. Like every other week, this gets a 10/10 from me.

[Pocari_Sweat]

Originally Posted by SgCloud

It is kinda disappointing in my opinion how people can't appreciate the great quality of the dialogues in Fate/Zero.

It has little to do with strong dialogue. The dialogue in Fate/Zero is indeed very good. The problem is pacing. Seriously the last 4 episodes or so of Fate/Zero has nearly been nothing but dialgoue, and a final episode of Fate/Zero 1st cour being devoted to Waver being emo and mostly nothing but talking between Waver x Rider and Ryousuke x Caster is imo unacceptable. Not a single master has been eliminated in the Holy Grail War by the end of the 1st cour and I was expecting Caster/Ryousuke to be knocked out of the competition at the very least. Beginning of the series, I was expecting both Lancer and Caster, but look at what happened...

There's plenty of shows that mix heavy dialogue and action well... Fate/Zero unfortunately is not one of them. Ufotable's predecessor series Kara no Kyoukai is a good example as is say something like Seirei No Moribito.

[sento]

Originally Posted by DemiSoda

It has little to do with strong dialogue. The dialogue in Fate/Zero is indeed very good. The problem is pacing. Seriously the last 4 episodes or so of Fate/Zero has short of nothing but dialgoue, and a final episode of Fate/Zero 1st cour being devoted to Waver being emo and mostly nothing but talking between Waver x Rider and Ryousuke x Caster is imo unacceptable. Not a single master has been eliminated in the Holy Grail War by the end of the 1st cour and I was expecting Caster to be knocked out of the competition at the very least. Beginning of the series, I was expecting both Lancer and Caster, but look at what happened...

There's plenty of shows that mix heavy dialogue and action well... Fate/Zero unfortunately is not one of them. Ufotable's predecessor series Kara no Kyoukai is a good example as is say something like Seirei No Moribito.

But the series didn't even ended. The whole two cours thing was just decided during the broadcast because they needed to keep the quality consistent. They are just following the book, and all of this talking is needed.

I remember how during episode 6 people were complaining at how character development was absent... That's what we got (with some really cool scenes at episodes 7, 8, 11, etc...). You have just to wait until everything comes down.

[bahamut zero]

Originally Posted by DemiSoda

It has little to do with strong dialogue. The dialogue in Fate/Zero is indeed very good. The problem is pacing. Seriously the last 4 episodes or so of Fate/Zero has nearly been nothing but dialgoue, and a final episode of Fate/Zero 1st cour being devoted to Waver being emo and mostly nothing but talking between Waver x Rider and Ryousuke x Caster is imo unacceptable. Not a single master has been eliminated in the Holy Grail War by the end of the 1st cour and I was expecting Caster/Ryousuke to be knocked out of the competition at the very least. Beginning of the series, I was expecting both Lancer and Caster, but look at what happened...

So in short there wasn't enough action and there was too much talk for you?

[Pocari_Sweat]

Originally Posted by bahamut zero

So in short there wasn't enough action and there was too much talk for you?

In essence yes, but it was much more to do with the pacing and placement of dialogue. Don't get me wrong, I like good dialogue shows like Mushishi, Spice and Wolf, but Fate/Zero just takes its too extreme imo, considering it is about a Holy Grail War and "action" is to be expected imo. Heck, I remember this series being compared to Game of Thrones HBO series earlier, and that had tons of dialogue too, but had good action scenes when it needed to deliver.

[sento]

I'm kinda relieved that they ended there.

I was afraid that they had tried to cram some of the awesome fight (or all of it) here because of the break. Now we will have a very good start with episode 14.

Originally Posted by DemiSoda

In essence yes, but it was much more to do with the pacing and placement of dialogue. Don't get me wrong, I like good dialogue shows like Mushishi, Spice and Wolf, but Fate/Zero just takes its too extreme imo, considering it is about a Holy Grail War and "action" is to be expected imo. Heck, I remember this series being compared to Game of Thrones HBO series earlier, and that had tons of dialogue too, but had good action scenes when it needed to deliver.

And here not? We got very good and distributed fight scenes. Hell we even got four episodes (4, 5, 7 and 8) about fighting. Next episode will be all about fighting, too. Fate/Zero got far more action than Game of Thrones IMHO, and that with smaller broadcast time.

[U<3Anime]

What the f.....seriously, that's how they are going to end the season? Most cruel cliffhanger ever. Man if I want to listen to the dialogue all day then I will be better off reading the novel. Now we have to wait 3 months? Screw this I'm just going to read the novel now.

[blue_sora]

Actually I never see this as the end of Season 1, but just a break to ensure that the quality doesn't drop. IMO, ufotable planned for 26(or 25?) episodes week-to-week but when seeing it is impossible to do so with aiming for high-quality animation, they decide to take a break. That's why the announcement was late (only after episode 1 aired if I'm not wrong).

And ufotable really adapt faithfully to the novel. They do rewrite the dialogue to be shorter and more straight to the point and rearrange the scenes a little bit but they are exactly just like the novel. The only thing that was an anime original was the extension of the Rin's scene. So the lot of talking and less action in Fate/Zero should be blamed on Gen Urobuchi who doesn't feel like having a fight in every chapter and focused on the talking.

Of course, if ufotable wants to make an exciting action packed series then they should have went for one-cour season without all those talking but the novel fans will be angry. And actually with only almost 12 episodes left but 6 servants still left means 1 servant will die every 2 episodes, starting with Caster I guess. Which means Season 2 will full of actions from beginning to the end, to contrast with Season 1 full of exposition.

My only complaint is that the music also take a toll from this decision to take a break. It seems like they refrain for introducing any new music because they want only the OST to be released to be played. Somehow I got the feeling the more epic music is saved for Season 2. Even the trailer music was used only once and it wasn't the full version.

And I think this talking episode is better than the previous two; at least there are changes in scenery.

[Kouvley]

With this being the "last" ep (until April) it seems like some people have come into it with somewhat misguided expectations.

Fate Zero is a 26ep show from the start except with the 2nd half broadcasted at a later date, it was never likely to have anything resolved or an "epic season finale battle" at ep13 that's typical of a proper 1 cour show that needs some kind of "ending" in case it doesn't get green lighted for another season. F/Z is an ongoing show with the next episode in April.

With that in mind I was fairly satisfied with this ep, the wait for ep14 will be tough but at least it will start off with a bang.

Originally Posted by DemiSoda

The dialogue in Fate/Zero is indeed very good. The problem is pacing.

I don't think it's really fair to say the pacing is a problem when we're only at the halfway point.

If the 2nd half turns out to be horribly rushed then you'd have more of a point and we could say that maybe they should have cut out some of the earlier dialogue, but as it stands the dialogue is very good as you've admitted so I don't see it as a problem at all.

[jeroz]

now with the exposition all done

April is going to be a killer season

Ryuunosuke breaking the 4th wall with the way he talks about Urobuchi

[Proto]

I clicked that I know the secret of the world by mistake. Can I delete some file to have the question asked again?

[iBeast]

Seriously... if you don't care for quality dialogue and just want non-sensible action then watch Bleach.

For a anime made to the appeal of a more mature audience, there are a lot of whiners in every thread even though every episode usually gets the majority of 10/10.

[DragoZERO]

Oh my goooooood!! How can they end it there!? That is cruel... oh man. I was gearing up for the fight and with the great dialogue I didn't get a feel for how long the ep was until it was over. Oh how very painful. The music even amped up too.

Anyway, awesome episode. Ryu and Caster would be really great characters if they were evil and insane. They would be cool, actually. Haha.

And as always, Rider is awesome. He makes some really great points with the perspective of a person's worth compared to the world.

I loved how Saber told him he'll regret his comment after the fight, she doesn't let anything go.

It's going to be a painful wait.

[GDB]

Let's see... Rider was, once again, a true boss. He's definitely the best character in the show. And is it just me, or is Saber being a total bitch to him? Sure, he shattered her perception of what a King is, but she didn't really have anything to retort with. Now he pays her a compliment by saying he wants her in his army, and she's all, "You'll pay for that." Now, I get that he means he wants her to serve him, and as a King that's a low blow for her, but still. She could have at least just given him a snarky response.

[DragoZERO]

Originally Posted by GDB

Let's see... Rider was, once again, a true boss. He's definitely the best character in the show. And is it just me, or is Saber being a total bitch to him? Sure, he shattered her perception of what a King is, but she didn't really have anything to retort with. Now he pays her a compliment by saying he wants her in his army, and she's all, "You'll pay for that." Now, I get that he means he wants her to serve him, and as a King that's a low blow for her, but still. She could have at least just given him a snarky response.

With no Shirou, Saber is a tough nut. She did let him off pretty easy too.

Quick, someone make a feminist meme with Saber.

[Kaiba]

Originally Posted by DemiSoda

It has little to do with strong dialogue. The dialogue in Fate/Zero is indeed very good. The problem is pacing. Seriously the last 4 episodes or so of Fate/Zero has nearly been nothing but dialgoue, and a final episode of Fate/Zero 1st cour being devoted to Waver being emo and mostly nothing but talking between Waver x Rider and Ryousuke x Caster is imo unacceptable. Not a single master has been eliminated in the Holy Grail War by the end of the 1st cour and I was expecting Caster/Ryousuke to be knocked out of the competition at the very least. Beginning of the series, I was expecting both Lancer and Caster, but look at what happened...

There's plenty of shows that mix heavy dialogue and action well... Fate/Zero unfortunately is not one of them. Ufotable's predecessor series Kara no Kyoukai is a good example as is say something like Seirei No Moribito.

Is the Waver thing such a problem? Really? It's character development - I know people here were complaining earlier that Waver was nothing more than a whiny foil to Rider. It's nice to see him transition away from that, and it's patently obvious that Waver is the Simon to Rider/Kamina. Just with more talking, because that's this kind of show.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

With no Shirou, Saber is a tough nut. She did let him off pretty easy too.

Quick, someone make a feminist meme with Saber.

Only if satirical, Saber's quite the opposite to a feminist right now.