[Manga] Chapter 334 Discussion

[ri0]

So let me sum this up: Kakuzu has 4 masks on his back that can contain damage and each has another element. Fire, wind and lightning were used, that would mean water is destroyed. Anyways: Kakuzu has the control over 4 elements and a body armor... damn what a freak^^

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by 0TaKu0

Ok, well for me he should have an affinity of his own, yes Kakuzu is like a Frankenstein, but to me it seems the body parts are his own, just chopped up to make it convenient for him to use them separately, if he really was a Frankenstein that would mean some one created him, and then we would have to go in to Kakuzu's past which no one knows about, so we can only assume that is his own body, and he did that to him self. So in other words you think he does not have his own affinity and I think he does, that’s all it comes down to. There's no proving each other right or wrong till the truth comes out.

We don’t have to go too far if Kishimoto would want to explain him [ATTETION TO ALL POSTERS: this is an explanation on how could Kishimoto tell a story, this is not a fact]], who created him in the past? A Experiment made by the hiden waterfall to create the ultimate shinoby, 2 panels to explain this, that’s all. All is a possibility but given the scar and what he has done already, I’m going for the frankenstein theory for now.

And for the record is was you that begin the element affinity part, not me, so I’m not trying to prove anyone wrong about this, but if you reply to me asking something, You will get a reply back from me.

Your assuming "You don’t know that for sure" is me saying you don’t know for sure, because that is what you think BUT you don’t know that for sure. I was actually pointing out that its not a fact, to other's I know already YOU know its not a fact.

This could be the most politically incorrect quote I have even read in my life.

So let me get this, The “You don’t know for sure” is not what you meant when you said “You Don’t know for sure”.???? Like Doctor evil from Austin Powers would say: "Rrrrrrrrright”

And then You once again are saying that you thought that I was sating a fact when saying: “. I was actually pointing out that its not a fact, to other's” so what, now the other poster need your guidance to understand what “could” and “Should” means?

[0TaKu0]

Originally Posted by Rurik

We don’t have to go too far if Kishimoto would want to explain him [ATTETION TO ALL POSTERS: this is an explanation on how could Kishimoto tell a story, this is not a fact]], who created him in the past? A Experiment made by the hiden waterfall to create the ultimate shinoby, 2 panels to explain this, that’s all. All is a possibility but given the scar and what he has done already, I’m going for the frankenstein theory for now.

What does this have to do with anything? All I was saying is, if he's everything like Frankenstein that would mean he’s made up of body parts from different shinobi's, I was saying I THINK that it is his own body HENCE he should have an affinity, It would be understandable if each piece of his body was from a different shinobi then that would explain why he might not have an element affinity. Once again, we don’t know his past, we don’t know if that’s his own body or not, but I think it is, hence he should have an affinity of his own.

Originally Posted by Rurik

And for the record is was you that begin the element affinity part, not me, so I’m not trying to prove anyone wrong about this, but if you reply to me asking something, You will get a reply back from me.

Uhh, yea of course it was me, when did I deny it? I brong it up, because I wanted to use it to say that the earth element is his own affinity, at least this is how I feel.

Originally Posted by Rurik

This could be the most politically incorrect quote I have even read in my life.

Your misunderstand, I already know that you know its not a fact and it is something that you think, I said you don’t know for sure for others who might be misunderstanding that you have something to back it up. It's the same thing as saying "That’s what YOU think" "You don’t know for sure" Why? Cause that’s what YOU think. So your not sure of your self.

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by 0TaKu0

What does this have to do with anything? All I was saying is, if he's everything like Frankenstein that would mean he’s made up of body parts from different shinobi's, I was saying I THINK that it is his own body HENCE he should have an affinity, It would be understandable if each piece of his body was from a different shinobi then that would explain why he might not have an element affinity. Once again, we don’t know his past, we don’t know if that’s his own body or not, but I think it is, hence he should have an affinity of his own.

You talked about The possibility of Explaining Kakkuzu past, I showed you that explainig how he was am Monster is as easy as that, as I showed you. And then I want to reinforce by Saying that He has shown that he is streamly strong in each element, so this could mean that He has affinity fro every Element, meaning this is because he does not have body parts on his own.

Uhh, yea of course it was me, when did I deny it? I brong it up, because I wanted to use it to say that the earth element is his own affinity, at least this is how I feel.

Yes, And You said:

So in other words you think he does not have his own affinity and I think he does, that’s all it comes down to. There's no proving each other right or wrong till the truth comes out.

In other words, you think I’m trying to prove you wrong on a subject I have never even intended to discuss.

And then, As I explained to you, If you like to Kakuuzu for an Affinity, go for water, as I said o you, is highly unlikely that the mask that Kauuzu lost was one which he has not show his Justus to us. Usually Writers don’t create a bad guy and make them loose an ability they never got to show to us.

Your misunderstand, I already know that you know its not a fact and it is something that you think, I said you don’t know for sure for others who might be misunderstanding that you have something to back it up. It's the same thing as saying "That’s what YOU think" "You don’t know for sure" Why? Cause that’s what YOU think. So your not sure of your self.

the only misunderstanding, or denial, or maybe even slightly trying to cover for a mistake is you.

Read your post carefully, When you refute to a Post to another poster saying “you don’t know this” You are indirectly saying that what this poster was saying is a fact without this poster having the proof. That is something know to anyone, if you don’t know this, then now you do. This is the 3rd or 4th time I have to be debating against you sorely on your double standard quotation.

And once again who designated you to be explaining to other poster My post???? Do the poster need your guidance to underrated how a sentence has a high use of could or should?

[0TaKu0]

Originally Posted by Rurik

You talked about The possibility of Explaining Kakkuzu past, I showed you that explainig how he was am Monster is as easy as that, as I showed you. And then I want to reinforce by Saying that He has shown that he is streamly strong in each element, so this could mean that He has affinity fro every Element, meaning this is because he does not have body parts on his own.

The only reason I even bought up Kakuzu's past was to back up my statement, which was IF Kakuzu was exactly like Frankenstein and each pieces of his body was from a different shinobi then it would make sense that he has no Affinity. Hence I bought up but for us to know that each pieces of his body is from a different shinobi, we would have to know HIS PAST. As for he has shown he "streamly" strong in each element, yes it could mean that he has the affinity for every element, this could also mean that the reason he has so many affinity's is because each of his body part's are from different shinobi with different affinity's.

Though, it could also mean the ghost's are the ones who are "streamly" strong in their element, not Kakuzu.

Originally Posted by Rurik

In other words, you think I’m trying to prove you wrong on a subject I have never even intended to discuss.

And then, As I explained to you, If you like to Kakuuzu for an Affinity, go for water, as I said o you, is highly unlikely that the mask that Kauuzu lost was one which he has not show his Justus to us. Usually Writers don’t create a bad guy and make them loose an ability they never got to show to us.

Uh actually you are trying to prove me wrong, because I bought up Kakuzu's own affinity being that it is linked to earth element, you told me you thought he had no affinity of his own the affinity thing was bought up because its directly linked to what we are discussing, because having his own affinity (assuming its earth) means the ghost that did die was water, so yea you would have to prove me wrong that his own affinity (if he has one) is not earth.

Originally Posted by Rurik

the only misunderstanding, or denial, or maybe even slightly trying to cover for a mistake is you.

No its definitely a misunderstanding on your part, you seem to take words the wrong way and put words in other peoples mouth. Assuming makes an ass out of you and me, you assumed I was saying you said it was a fact which is not the case.

Also, you just said to me "And for the record is was you that begin the element affinity part" but did I ever deny that? No, but you pointed it out any way, my point is "DO YOU SEE ME GOING CRAZY LIKE YOU OMG RURIK I NEVER DENY'D IT OMG WHO DESIGNATED YOU TO DO THAT??" So, you are making something over nothing.

Originally Posted by Rurik

And once again who designated you to be explaining to other poster My post???? Do the poster need your guidance to underrated how a sentence has a high use of could or should?

First That has to be the most hypocritical statement I have ever read, this is exactly what you and everyone else on these boards do, people breaking down and explaining what some one else typed and finding "truth" or "false" in them.

Second I am a Naruto fan and a member of this board, that’s more then enough to tell other's what you stated is not a fact, nor did you mean it to be a fact, nor do you have evidence to back it up. So for them not to take this as a manga fact.

Still, you know what I know you well enough Rurik, and although your not as annoying as Lost cause your not a fanboy, your some one who likes to get the last word. So I know your going to reply to this, and I'll let you get the last word, I wont even reply anymore because after what you just said about "who designated me" I don’t even feel like continuing this debate cause I thought we were having fun, but I was wrong. I remember you once told me "Dont take things on form's personally, thats a killer." well looks like this time I get to say that back to you.

[TooPurePureBoy]

@ Ruruik

Ummm calm down?

You weren't being insulted at all IMO but even if you were it's not on a level where you should be so heated.

@all

Personally, I feel that Kakuzu's natural affinity is water because when he was hit by raikiri Kakuzu was using a doton jutsu, then the mask died. But I got absolutely nothing to back that up.

[Zek]

Originally Posted by Rurik

And then, As I explained to you, If you like to Kakuuzu for an Affinity, go for water, as I said o you, is highly unlikely that the mask that Kauuzu lost was one which he has not show his Justus to us. Usually Writers don’t create a bad guy and make them loose an ability they never got to show to us.

There's no indication that Kakuzu used a mask to perform his hardened skin jutsu, which is Earth. It seems more likely that it's one of his own jutsus, which would make him an Earth affinity and the destroyed mask Water.

Also, it's entirely possible that he lost an ability that he never got a chance to show. For another example, look at Sasori - he still had some of those scrolls in his puppet form that he never used.

[Suna no tate]

Earlier I was looking at an extremely raw 334. Now I have a better one at my disposal. Boy am I confused!

Here are the things that are bothering me
1)Did hidan connect on Kakashi with the scythe? It looks like it!
2) kakashi perform a 2 handed chidori?
3) Are the masks on kakuzu's back each representative of a different element?
4) How did kakashi not see the masks with his sharingan? After the extensive discussion, I thought it was understood that it could see through clothes. How did kakashi think he hit a vital and yet miss something so critical as that?
5) Does kakuzu look like subzero from mortal combat or not? Someone should do a photoshop expose!

[Zek]

By the way, did anyone else notice the somber expression Hidan is wearing when he sees that the mask died? It's like he had some sort of personal attachment to it or something. It seems unlike him to be so depressed just because his buddy lost one of his weapons.

[Rachy]

Originally Posted by Zek

By the way, did anyone else notice the somber expression Hidan is wearing when he sees that the mask died? It's like he had some sort of personal attachment to it or something. It seems unlike him to be so depressed just because his buddy lost one of his weapons.

Ya ya the spirits must be alive, maybe their old spirits of ex partners kakuzu had lol. But yus Hidan looks like he cares for Kakuzu and Kakuzu helps him to, I think Kakuzu like's his ghosty things. Cutest Hidan panel ever =).

Originally Posted by Suna no tate

1)Did hidan connect on Kakashi with the scythe? It looks like it!

It does, but seems like he missed for now. Unless Hidan next chapter goes "Kyaahahahaha!!" and we see Kakashi bleeding.

4) How did kakashi not see the masks with his sharingan? After the extensive discussion, I thought it was understood that it could see through clothes. How did kakashi think he hit a vital and yet miss something so critical as that?

It see's the chakra flow, it's not byukagan xray vision.

[bkzjester]

The next thing that's gonna surprise us and come off is probably Kakashi's mask. That'd be cool.

[tramadrama]

Well, I always suspected that maybe Hidan and Kakuzu's weakness are intertwined with each other, in some way, shape, or form. It would be cool to see if it's true. Hidan did seem to have concern for Kakuzu. Maybe Kakuzu and Jashin are connected?

[Rachy]

Originally Posted by tramadrama

Maybe Kakuzu and Jashin are connected?

It'd be hard to say, Since we don't know if Hidan was brought into Akatsuki by Kakuzu but Kakuzu has seemed to be there before Hidan's time. Maybe they're connected in some way like that or maybe Hidan is just linked to the Jashin and spirits so he kinda feels sorry for when a spirit dies. Like a person would feel sad watching a child die.

[Mists]

Kakashi is going to break out a 'so you're like me huh?' And he takes off his mask

[LostOnTheU-rturn]

I don't think we should start talking about affinities now, because its most likely that next week's chapter will explain if Kakuzu has one, or all of them.

We know he has four maks on his back.

So far, he has used two masks on the open, Lighting and Wind, and he is about to use Fire.

We know that one mask died, and it problably the Earth mask, the one that protected Kakuzu from the Raikiri which is also the one that allows his skin to get tougher.

Right now he has shown 4 of the 5 elements.

Meaning that one mask is missing, the Water Mask, which problably is the mask he is wearing right now.

So far we know that Kakashi is the sole survivor of the Hidan/Kakuzu combo, and that Kakashi's raikiri was able to neutralize Kakuzu's lightning mask.

But its quite true that kakuzu either was an experiment, or he experimented on himself.

[Ero-Senn1n]

I don't see why some people complain against Kakuzu's power, they may still be the weakest akatsuki couple from all we know. Just consider this:

Sasori + Deidara: the one said to be weaker has killed Gaara, almost destroyed the sand village with a huge bomb, after losing both hands almost killed team-Gai and team-Kakashi with a bomb. The other killed the strongest kazekage, was best ever puppet user, immortal, had spies in different countries. Had a poision+puppet attack which was an unbeateatable combo if not for an extremely experienced puppet user + a medical ninja genius who had days to prepare an antidote

Itachi + Kisame: the weaker has a chakra pool comparable to a demon, can create water out of nowhere just like the 2nd hokage could, has a sword which might have yet unknown special forces. The stronger one is clearly stronger than Orochimaru, this the strongest living and already introduced ninja in the series. Has two MS jutsu which cannot be countered, etc...


Just when the 1st part of Naruto ended i wrote here on the forum about how godlike should akatsuki be considering that even genins did unbeliveable destruction. For example Temari summoned an animal and made winds and demolished with that a whole forest, and she was a genin at the time! Then for example Chouji destroyed a place with his super-size fight, Lee opened the gates and almost demolished the building where he fought Gaara. Then we saw how easy was for Gai to get rid of Gaara's killer sand, just like it was nothing. Someone who was supposed to be only a jounin was so strong that he simply stopped Gaara's sand. And then compare to that the akatsuki, they are people who are clearly stronger than jounins, even the weaker ones are on Kakashi's level. Also Jiraiya saying that akatsukians are even more troublesome than Orochimaru. There were so many hints that part 2 will be as we see it now, i have no problem with this as long as the story is good as it is now.

[chitgoks]

kakashi is stronger than kakuzu if it's one on one. this is one against 4. the other 4 have unlimited powers. if it was plain kakuzu vs kakashi, kakashi would definitely win right away.

sasori was strong. he just had a case of bad luck coz he encountered his grandma who happens to know puppets' weakpoints. if it was some other he came up against, they would have had big problems against sasori

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by 0TaKu0

The only reason I even bought up Kakuzu's past was to back up my statement, which was IF Kakuzu was exactly like Frankenstein and each pieces of his body was from a different shinobi then it would make sense that he has no Affinity. Hence I bought up but for us to know that each pieces of his body is from a different shinobi, we would have to know HIS PAST. As for he has shown he "streamly" strong in each element, yes it could mean that he has the affinity for every element, this could also mean that the reason he has so many affinity's is because each of his body part's are from different shinobi with different affinity's.

Though, it could also mean the ghost's are the ones who are "streamly" strong in their element, not Kakuzu.

Once again you talked about the possibility of talking about Kakuuzu past, and I showed to you this is not so trivial to do it is a couple of Panel. Ksihimoto does not have to do a Uchiha Back story to explain this.

Uh actually you are trying to prove me wrong, because I bought up Kakuzu's own affinity being that it is linked to earth element, you told me you thought he had no affinity of his own the affinity thing was bought up because its directly linked to what we are discussing, because having his own affinity (assuming its earth) means the ghost that did die was water, so yea you would have to prove me wrong that his own affinity (if he has one) is not earth.

No, Im not, I never Talked about Element Affinity to begin with, that was you, My post were directly tied to the mask and the Jutsu, not the affinity of the Kakuuzu, which I been trying to evade and you keep shoving this topic looking for my reply. you asked me a question, I responded with my Opinion. I said very well in my response:"For me"

No its definitely a misunderstanding on your part, you seem to take words the wrong way and put words in other peoples mouth. Assuming makes an ass out of you and me, you assumed I was saying you said it was a fact which is not the case.

Once again there is no misunderstanding on what you said, If you don't know how to use word correctly in forum is not my problem, but your word were cookie crisp clean,," You don't know this". it did not say, "I don't think it is like that", "That a possibility but..", and other types of claims that don't use the sentence you choose to used..


I'm been posting for a long time And I perfectly know the weight of your quote. if you did not knew, thats your bad.

And this debate only reminds me the reason why i try to avoid posting my opinion to begin with, because some people will come with that exact same arrogant claim you did before.

Don't worry, I learned my lessons, so this for now on it would be reaaly rare to hear a theory from me in this forum.

Also, you just said to me "And for the record is was you that begin the element affinity part" but did I ever deny that? No, but you pointed it out any way, my point is "DO YOU SEE ME GOING CRAZY LIKE YOU OMG RURIK I NEVER DENY'D IT OMG WHO DESIGNATED YOU TO DO THAT??" So, you are making something over nothing.

LOL, yes you begun the element affinity part and no I did not say you deny it, if you read that entire quote and just not that sentence, you will see im not accusing you of anything, just pointed out the you started with the affinity as I told you specifically that if you asked me something i will reply back, or what you were expecting, that if you ask me something i would not respond?

Different speaking, on what you directly said about a theory: "You don't know that"; Which I replied to you explaining how I was using Could and Should, so instead of accepting this, you begin to debate about this and how YOU need to be explaining MY post to everybody, because they might not understand that this post was just a theory.

First That has to be the most hypocritical statement I have ever read, this is exactly what you and everyone else on these boards do, people breaking down and explaining what some one else typed and finding "truth" or "false" in them.

Sorry, but i really don't remember anybody taking a post of someone so they could explain to everybody (not the poster quoted): "Hey, he meant to say this not that".(at least besides you)

It would had been welcome by me if another poster (not you, because you claim you knew this was not stated as a fact)would had asked i this a fact, or something like that, and then you quoting this trying to explain my post; you did the opposite, you took a quote from me and said, "you don't know this", and anyway you try to see it, it a post directed at me trying to imply my post was talking about fact

What I do is takes other post and try to counter-argue what they say about Naruto, I don't try to explain to others what the poster I'm debating with is trying to say, the far I have one before is asking, "Do you meant to say this? or "I do not agree with your theory" I never had used a theory of Someone and said you don't know this or that wrong, unless that there are fact that contradict them.

Second I am a Naruto fan and a member of this board, that’s more then enough to tell other's what you stated is not a fact, nor did you mean it to be a fact, nor do you have evidence to back it up. So for them not to take this as a manga fact.

]

Again where did I said that what I sated was a fact??, why do the Naruto forum poster needs to understand that from you? and, not the owner of the post? why would anyone in this Forum could think that I was even remotely stating this theory as a fact, when Everyone knows me very well here that i never passed my theories as an fact?

Still, you know what I know you well enough Rurik, and although your not as annoying as Lost cause your not a fanboy, your some one who likes to get the last word. So I know your going to reply to this, and I'll let you get the last word, I wont even reply anymore because after what you just said about "who designated me" I don’t even feel like continuing this debate cause I thought we were having fun, but I was wrong. I remember you once told me "Dont take things on form's personally, thats a killer." well looks like this time I get to say that back to you.

LOL. if you think I'm taking this personal think again, rather, Is its annoying that you say something and try to say it meant something else, instead of accepting your mistake or saying my bad (for example on how you conveniently did not say a single word about the Fact that Kakuuzu did used Hand seals with his mask and try to carry on), but NO, you have to defend that you said something and this meant another thing which is not even close to the sentence, you could debate about Naruto what you like, but don't come here trying to be the one that did not do anything wrong, when what you did took my theory, pissed on it and them Say "You don't know that""

So spare me your reverse physiologic about "Ï know You well and you will reply back" and "You said don't take his personal and Blah...". ok?

Originally Posted by Zek

There's no indication that Kakuzu used a mask to perform his hardened skin jutsu, which is Earth. It seems more likely that it's one of his own jutsus, which would make him an Earth affinity and the destroyed mask Water.

Also, it's entirely possible that he lost an ability that he never got a chance to show. For another example, look at Sasori - he still had some of those scrolls in his puppet form that he never used.

And Im not saying "Come to Rurik, he is your master, he is the only one that has the truth" rather, given what Nin tails beautiful explained and what i said before. the one lost seemed to be the Doton one.

And Regarding Sasori, you are right, but take this in consideration: Sasori said he was going to use his most powerful Jutsu and SAsori ability were all the Same thing...Puppets.

Originally Posted by Nine-Tails-Nin

@ Ruruik

Ummm calm down?

You weren't being insulted at all IMO but even if you were it's not on a level where you should be so heated.

@all

Personally, I feel that Kakuzu's natural affinity is water because when he was hit by raikiri Kakuzu was using a doton jutsu, then the mask died. But I got absolutely nothing to back that up.

I'm perfectly fine Nine tails don't worry, thanks for the concern, but I don't like when people try to twist what I said , or try to make my post as if I'm some sort of retard bastard.

And what you said about Kakuzu is one of the reason I think the Mask that died was the earth one. nice one!

And is Rurik...not Ruruik...

[Uchiha_Gaara]

Originally Posted by chitgoks

kakashi is stronger than kakuzu if it's one on one. this is one against 4. the other 4 have unlimited powers. if it was plain kakuzu vs kakashi, kakashi would definitely win right away.

It's not really 1 on 4 the puputs are like tecniques, it's one aprouch you can make.. You could also say "If Kakashi didn't have his sharingan..."

Originally Posted by chitgoks

sasori was strong. he just had a case of bad luck coz he encountered his grandma who happens to know puppets' weakpoints. if it was some other he came up against, they would have had big problems against sasori

Not only that but Sasori himself let them kill him... Because she had pupets of his parents. Sasori would totaly own them if it wasn't for that !

[.opi]

Originally Posted by chitgoks

kakashi is stronger than kakuzu if it's one on one. this is one against 4. the other 4 have unlimited powers. if it was plain kakuzu vs kakashi, kakashi would definitely win right away.

i dont think this is a good way to look at it......those 4 masks are part of kakuzu's fighting style/techniques, it'd be like saying kakashi without any arms would lose to neji or something like that.

in the end, kakuzu has those 4 masks, so he fights with them, just like how kakashi has sharingan so he uses it.