GATE - Light Novel Discussion

[aohige]

Originally Posted by Bonta Kun

Personally if there was one thing missing from this series it would be naval warfare.
Yes yes we got plenty of other stuff dealing with ships but I'd still like to see a Yamato bring the pain to the empire myself.
Completely overkill and rather pointless? Yes ofc in totally epic fashion but would still be damn awesome to see
And yes I know Yamato isn't quite so modern but you simply can't beat them big ass gun toting battleships

"not modern"?
I think the fact that y'all sank it and it no longer exist is a bit more problem than age of the craft.

I mean sure, the JSDF in Gate are supplied with aged equipment ready to be discarded, but I don't think they meant "bringing back sunken ships from the dead".

[Bonta Kun]

Originally Posted by aohige

"not modern"?
I think the fact that y'all sank it and it no longer exist is a bit more problem than age of the craft.

I mean sure, the JSDF in Gate are supplied with aged equipment ready to be discarded, but I don't think they meant "bringing back sunken ships from the dead".

Haha not so much about "bringing ships back from the dead" but simply something I'd like to see it even if it's just silly
The modern status of the ship compared todays stuff is old but compared to empires era of tech it's well space age.
I wouldn't have expected some contrived or silly reasons for adding such things as past gone battleships into the story if that was case but as I've said before, seeing it would still be pretty awesome regardless of how stupidly ridiculous it is within the scope of the setting even for such a story as this

For me modern day vs different time periods is something I've always liked be it hundreds or just decades apart.
I like the present day vs medieval fantsay setting here or I'd even take a present day vs WWII fantasy era setting if that was the case(The Final Countdown film is not great but yet I still rather liked it cause of what it was about) or even take WWII vs medieval fantasy.
More sizable time between time periods is better but I think 50+ years is good enough.

[Direwolf18]

The Yamato was more then a bit of a white elephant when it was built. Not to mention the wrong ship for the wrong war, the Pacific was about Carriers, not battleships. In a situation where you are going up against Triremes or Gallies I would take a squadron or two of destroyers over a single battleship any day of the week.

If you want to read about that sort of Naval thing I would check out David Weber's Safehold series, or Taylor Anderson's Destroyermen series. I have not gotten around to reading Destroyermen but I hear its pretty good. These are books and not manga, but hey.

While I love naval combat, I just don't see it happening in this series, the gate would have to be located in the water to get a ship through, and those are a tad big.

[Renegade334]

It's already been established that the Gateway is frustratingly small, enough that the JSDF often has to dismantle transiting equipment in order to make it pass from one world to the other...so, funneling a 2,000t+ hull (a small Coast Guard cutter, not even a guided missile frigate) through that small aperture is already a technical nightmare and ultimately a no-go (can you imagine having to tow an Atago-class warship to the middle of Ginza on a giant flatbed? It'd be utter madness).

I believe someone once posted a map of the "fantasy" world in this thread, but IIRC (I could be wrong, though) Alnus was nowhere near the coastline; the JSDF doesn't have a port, much less a shipyard to build a warship in.


Besides, why build a battleship from scratch when the JGSDF already has 90+ M270 MLRS rocket launchers that are both just as effective and Gateway-friendly? The JGSDF will go Steel Rain all the way.

[Bonta Kun]

Originally Posted by Direwolf18

While I love naval combat, I just don't see it happening in this series, the gate would have to be located in the water to get a ship through, and those are a tad big.

Oh ofc I don't see naval warfare happening here, cause of how small the gate is and so far combat being kept to ground and air.
Adding naval would probably make things messy in all seriousness but like I said it would still be cool to see.
I'm a massive fan of mecha, space and pretty much all forms military combat but for me sea is top favorite.
Hell if this was mecha(not exactly gundam style or as big as gundam)vs medieval I'd probably still like it alot but would still want big ass battleships blasting away at shit

[Wandering_Youth]

Wow someone been quick at translating the newest chapter.

Spoiler for Boooom!:

Anyone mind telling why the JSDF bombed the empty imperial palace?

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Wandering_Youth

Wow someone been quick at translating the newest chapter.

Spoiler for Boooom!:

Anyone mind telling why the JSDF bombed the empty imperial palace?

To prove a point. They were punishing the Empire for enslaving Japanese citizens while driving home how powerless they were in the face of the JSDF.

[Velsy]

I thought that was odd too, It was like striking at the emperor right off the bat. What if Pina had still been in the Palace?

Another odd thing I forgot to mention? That slave bunny girl stood up for the prince while he was getting his ass beat down ? Wasnt she the one the prince was raping ? Stockholm Syndrome maybe ?

[Lutz2]

Originally Posted by Velsy

Another odd thing I forgot to mention? That slave bunny girl stood up for the prince while he was getting his ass beat down ? Wasnt she the one the prince was raping ? Stockholm Syndrome maybe ?

More or less, from what i know:

Spoiler for Bunny:

She wants to kill the Prince and no one other than her, she know a long Time that the Prince destroyed her Land. So she wants Revenge for herself.

[Kamui04]

Originally Posted by Velsy

I thought that was odd too, It was like striking at the emperor right off the bat. What if Pina had still been in the Palace?

Another odd thing I forgot to mention? That slave bunny girl stood up for the prince while he was getting his ass beat down ? Wasnt she the one the prince was raping ? Stockholm Syndrome maybe ?

They bombed the Senate Building, not the palace. And since it was early in the morning it was empty. Both details are in the scanlated chapter.

[Fwarlord]

Originally Posted by Kamui04

They bombed the Senate Building, not the palace. And since it was early in the morning it was empty. Both details are in the scanlated chapter.

Nothing guarantee there would be no one there. They just didn't care and bombing that building to show off their muscles. Were there some remained civilians or servants, they would have become war criminals.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Velsy

I thought that was odd too, It was like striking at the emperor right off the bat. What if Pina had still been in the Palace?

Another odd thing I forgot to mention? That slave bunny girl stood up for the prince while he was getting his ass beat down ? Wasnt she the one the prince was raping ? Stockholm Syndrome maybe ?

They waited until a time when no one was inside. They mention it while planning the attack.

Originally Posted by Lutz2

More or less, from what i know:

Spoiler for Bunny:

She wants to kill the Prince and no one other than her, she know a long Time that the Prince destroyed her Land. So she wants Revenge for herself.

Actually, she doesn't know her country was destroyed. She believes that keeping the prince alive is necessary to protect her people.

[Fwarlord]

Originally Posted by XFire

They waited until a time when no one was inside. They mention it while planning the attack.

Didn't they observe the target from somewhere far away? How could they certainly be sure if there was anyone inside or not? That's why I think they just choose a time they think maybe be no one inside.

[Top Sergeant]

Originally Posted by Fwarlord

Nothing guarantee there would be no one there. They just didn't care and bombing that building to show off their muscles. Were there some remained civilians or servants, they would have become war criminals.

No, even if they did (and they may have) killed some civilians in that airstrike, it would not make the pilots war criminals.

The Senate building of the Empire is a legitimate target: it is essentially the Empire's War Ministry. Civilians or servants killed inside or nearby would not have been deliberately targeted, so no violation of the Law of War.

Examples:
Legit target bombed, bomb shrapnel or a chunk of stone falls on a civilian's head and kills him: not a war crime.

Residential neighborhood bombed with no legit target in the area: that is a war crime.

[Top Sergeant]

Originally Posted by XFire

Actually, she doesn't know her country was destroyed. She believes that keeping the prince alive is necessary to protect her people.

That's my thought too.

[cupumanager]

Welp. What a Screwup...

Oh, Very well then, Shock and Awe we go...

[ZeKeR]

Originally Posted by Top Sergeant

No, even if they did (and they may have) killed some civilians in that airstrike, it would not make the pilots war criminals.

The Senate building of the Empire is a legitimate target: it is essentially the Empire's War Ministry. Civilians or servants killed inside or nearby would not have been deliberately targeted, so no violation of the Law of War.

Examples:
Legit target bombed, bomb shrapnel or a chunk of stone falls on a civilian's head and kills him: not a war crime.

Residential neighborhood bombed with no legit target in the area: that is a war crime.

so collateral damage from the freakin' secondaries of the blast is awwight? now this makes me want to reread the stuff they discussed regarding rules of warfare in Geneva and hope that there are now 'dafuq?! is this real?!' shtick I read

now this reminded me of that event in WWII where the Germans or was it the Soviets engineer unit blasted a building that was used as a hard point, supply depot and infirmary WITH CIVILIANS INSIDE as well as soldiers down to rubble.

[kasimmorathi]

Historically speaking - say WWII -to Vietnam era - militaries would carpet bomb entire cities to destroy a few factories or military facilities. A majority of civilian casualties were due to falling debris rather than the bomb blasts themselves. This was accepted military practice as there was no truly accurate way of delivering the payload.

Modern warfare now more methodically targets government buildings or military facilities, however these buildings still rely heavily upon civilian staff - janitors, service workers, etc. - and also tend to be located in dense, urban environments. Even a laser-guided munition may only hit the building it is intended for the explosions still spreads devastating shrapnel outward. This isn't a controlled demolition. No matter how hard a military may try to avoid it, civilian casualties are almost guaranteed in any conflict.

I think where this becomes a little more politically murky is the concept of bombing a building due to the acknowledgement of captured/enslaved POWs. In this stage of the game, that seems like a subject to first negotiate their release and if no release is guaranteed, -then- begin a military campaign. After, could the JSDF guarantee that the Senate building wasn't being cleaned by enslaved individuals at the time it was destroyed? How about in the surrounding buildings?

Also, there might be some political rammifications to the concept of a self-defense force obsentisbly beginning an offensive campaign against a technologically primitive society - without any international oversight.

Then again, this is fantasy so... get your war on!

[Angrypokstick]

Originally Posted by ZeKeR

so collateral damage from the freakin' secondaries of the blast is awwight? now this makes me want to reread the stuff they discussed regarding rules of warfare in Geneva and hope that there are now 'dafuq?! is this real?!' shtick I read

now this reminded me of that event in WWII where the Germans or was it the Soviets engineer unit blasted a building that was used as a hard point, supply depot and infirmary WITH CIVILIANS INSIDE as well as soldiers down to rubble.

Well if this was real life and had this been a planned strike(ie the target list was generated days/weeks ago) then there would haven been hours of debates and paper work with an lawyer before the strike was authorized.
But since this strike was an impromptu strike and not a planned one, then it is entirely legal for the military to act under their ROEs that have been reviewed by lawyers and politicians meticulously long before the JSDF ever stepped out the wire and thus as long as the target is legit and within a set parameter dictated by their ROEs then its perfectly legal for the military to take action. the "finer" details would have to be hammered out later when the After action report is submitted higher.

Also ,If this was like real life such as in Afghanistan it would probably take years for something like this ever to reach the ears of the public.
Furthermore, a little fact for those who don't know. The UN observers in Afghanistan attributes over 7800 confirmed civilian causality to US forces alone in an 10 year period, Most of those from Air/Drone/Artillery strikes.
At least another thousand civilian death is attributed to the rest of the ISAF/NATO task force. Of course the number of civilian causality caused by insurgent forces is 3 times the causalities caused by US/NATO and our society as a whole considers those casualty justified. And personally i have no problems with that. Civilian casualty in conflicts is simply unavoidable.

[Top Sergeant]

Originally Posted by ZeKeR

so collateral damage from the freakin' secondaries of the blast is awwight? now this makes me want to reread the stuff they discussed regarding rules of warfare in Geneva and hope that there are now 'dafuq?! is this real?!' shtick I read

The Pentagon has had a love affair with adding on layers and layers of additional restrictions with their ROE's (Rules of Engagement). Why should they care? They're safe and sound on the Patomac.