Code Geass R2 - Episode 25 Discussion / Poll [END]

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by Freya

Blows them into the sun? That means she defeats Suzaku and has the energy left to do all that?

Just put Lelouch, and C.C on a rocket and blasts them into the sun.

No more geass no more Code.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

but I feel it works better with Lelouch dead, for the reasons I have already given, it makes his sacrifice real.

It wasn't real even if he did die.

The whole assassination and Good VS Evil is a lie. But as long as people believed it, then it is real enough. Both the villain and hero in the staged moral play were merely acting out their roles, and the "sacrifice" was only incidental and not actually that important.

It's faked. All of it. Even if Lulu did die, it wouldn't make the plan work any better.

[Lord Ryo]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

Was it the ending I wanted?

No, my top three endings

1. Ougi screams at Schneizel, and Lelouch that by acting like a bunch of douchebags that millions have died that didn't need to die. Schneizel, and Lelouch agree to work together for peace.
2. Zero Requiem works, but upon finding out that Lelouch has code, Kallen blasts Lelouch and C.C into the sun along with the Damocles to get rid of Geass, and Code.
3. The Ideon appears and blows up the universe

but I feel it works better with Lelouch dead, for the reasons I have already given, it makes his sacrifice real.

I believe Lelouch deserves to live in the world of peace he sacrificed so much to create.

And also, does anyone know what was up with Lloyd and Cecile? I thought they were on Lelouch’s side, and where did Sayoko go? I honestly thought the Zero who was running against the Wards was the ninja-maid, she just kinds disappeared.

[wingdarkness]

Originally Posted by Lord Ryo

Why would you look up to someone for sucha reason? However, it's not that Lelouch being a wagon driver gave the show a perfect ending, it the fact that Lelouch is still alive. It's sad to think after all is said and done Lelouch had to die, but thinking/knowing/believeing he is still alive makes the ending better for some. I would have dropped the the ending score too if I thought for sure Lelouch was dead.

I have no problem with anyone believing Lulu is alive for personal reasons...I just don't see how that changes the plot of R2 or how it's now a great series, when if he's dead the series sucks...It's just too ambiguos for me to fight on either side...But if anyone wants to start King Konging their chest and calling everyone who didn't figure this out crazy, then I'm ready to put that car in park...

Originally Posted by hero147

In my perspective...If Lelouch is confirmed dead, I won't buy the series. I won't buy any anime that end with a low note, simply because I hate being depressed. I like to buy great animes that end with a happy round of applause. The ending just tore me up inside, and I really don't want to feel that again

Thank You for proving my point...If enuff backlash follows this then the OVA where it's revealed he's a rice-farmer with double-geass eyes gets the go...Until then it's saner to accept the scene that validated something than a scene that validates the lack thereof...


@VCV - I can't be bothered to read 100 plus pages, just tell me you aren't of the opinion a haywagon driver saves this series....

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by Lord Ryo

I believe Lelouch deserves to live in the world of peace he sacrificed so much to create.

And also, does anyone know what was up with Lloyd and Cecile? I thought they were on Lelouch’s side, and where did Sayoko go? I honestly thought the Zero who was running against the Wards was the ninja-maid, she just kinds disappeared.

You mean get stabbed? That's not a sacrifice.

Rolo sacrificed for peace. Lelouch if he lived didn't.

[Freya]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

Just put Lelouch, and C.C on a rocket and blasts them into the sun.

No more geass no more Code.

You make it sound so easy? How about Lelouch just Freya her? How about Suzaku totally demolish Guren?

Your ending has so many flaws.

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by Freya

You make it sound so easy? How about Lelouch just Freya her? How about Suzaku totally demolish Guren?

Your ending has so many flaws.

We have no proof that a Freya will kill a Code.

Also my second best ending is the current ending except that Code, and Geass are destroyed

[Revolutionist]

Here's the thing with anime, you can die and get a grave and you can still come back later if the writers want it to happen. See:

Spoiler for GW:

Milliardo Peacecraft

Your Gundam can get blown up and disintegrated into dust in space by a capital ship's main cannon, and you can come back later with minor injuries see:

Spoiler for GS:

Mwu la Flaga

. You can get your suit impaled and blown up around you nowhere near a ship/space station, give a final speech and still come back from the dead. see:

Spoiler for g00:

Setsuna F. Seiei, Graham Aker.

.

Point I'm making is, you can get impaled by a Claymore and you can come back of the writers so wish it, specially when the leave things open like this.

[Freya]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

We have no proof that a Freya will kill a Code.

Also my second best ending is the current ending except that Code, and Geass are destroyed

You do know I meant Kallen not C.C.

[hero147]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

Thank You for proving my point...If enuff backlash follows this then the OVA where it's revealed he's a rice-farmer with double-geass eyes gets the go...Until then it's saner to accept the scene that validated something than a scene that validates the lack thereof...

Power to the People!If that happened I would be happy<3.....Unfortunately, there aren't that many people who won't buy the DVD because of a bad ending.

Anyhow, I know that whenever I re-watch it, I'll feel sad again even if I watch the first episode....Which makes me feel like crap for a week, and wishing I never saw it at all. Maybe when I'm older and married, I would buy it. (get a shoulder to lean on and watch it with) I think it would be fun, taking a week off work, and watching sad animes with someone to cry on. But until then, I can't do it

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by Freya

You do know I meant Kallen not C.C.

What would killing Kallen accomplish?

What are you even talking about?

[CapoExecutor]

Let them be the immortal couple that live out in the countryside and the Codes be safely secured through them.

C.C. and Lelouch have been through a lot together. Kallen could just take Gino or Tamaki or go yuri and bed with Kaguya and the Tianzi.

[Liddo-kun]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

If enuff backlash follows this then the OVA where it's revealed he's a rice-farmer with double-geass eyes gets the go...Until then it's saner to accept the scene that validated something than a scene that validates the lack thereof...

I remember after the end of Gundam Wing Tv series, they released a 3 episode OVA where there's a new villain and the heroes are needed once again.

They might adopt the same for Code Geass, world peace is threatened and Lelouch woud save the world one more time.

[tzia_n]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

It wasn't real even if he did die.

The whole assassination and Good VS Evil is a lie. But as long as people believed it, then it is real enough. Both the villain and hero in the staged moral play were merely acting out their roles, and the "sacrifice" was only incidental and not actually that important.

It's faked. All of it. Even if Lulu did die, it wouldn't make the plan work any better.

just because there are alternatives doesn't mean the death scene was fake. sure there was no actual need from the story's perspective for lelouch to die, but it doesn't mean anything.

i'm guessing that from a fan's perspective actual death for lelouch has more impact

Originally Posted by Freya

You make it sound so easy? How about Lelouch just Freya her? How about Suzaku totally demolish Guren?

Your ending has so many flaws.

well all endings have flaws

this thread has failed me, i expected to wake up and come back at page 200, but it's still at 150 lol and the same topic is being argued

[Souryu]

For all the people that thinks that Lelouch has Charles' Code, there's a major hole in this theory:

If Lelouch had Charles' Code, how the hell did he still have his Geass? Remember that when C.C. killed her predecessor, she lost her Geass and the same thing happened to Charles when V.V. gave him his Code.

[Freya]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

What would killing Kallen accomplish?

What are you even talking about?

Nvm lol. . .

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

@VCV - I can't be bothered to read 100 plus pages, just tell me you aren't of the opinion a haywagon driver saves this series....

My preference to believe that Lulu is the Cart-Driver is nothing more than that; a preference. Like Lulu himself, I believe it didn't matter if Lulu lived or not, as his goal of changing the world was accomplished.

The assassination wasn't "redemption", as what some people here believed. Lulu isn't doing this to make himself feel better. Lulu never did ANYTHING to make himself feel better. He never cared about redeeming himself for anything.

It's all about telling a convincing lie. And he told it.
He needed Suzaku's cooperation in this staged-play that require two actors. That's why he needed to be killed on screen. For all intent and purposes Lulu didn't plan to survive it.

For those who think it would cheapen his sacrifice if Lulu lived... It is already cheap. A fake hero killing a fake villain on live television? That's as cheap as it gets.

No, it doesn't ruin the series for me if Lulu was conclusively killed. Lulu's grand plan does not involve the death of Lulu, but the death of an evil dictator. The entire world was lied to, and the world is better off not knowing.

But Lulu was NOT conclusively killed. Sunrise quite intentionally leave room for everyone to have it their way. And I intend to take up their offer.

Originally Posted by Souryu

For all the people that thinks that Lelouch has Charles' Code, there's a major hole in this theory:

If Lelouch had Charles' Code, how the hell did he still have his Geass? Remember that when C.C. killed her predecessor, she lost her Geass and the same thing happened to Charles when V.V. gave him his Code.

There are two popular theories:
1. The Code and Geass only conflicts if they were given by the same person.
2. The Code doesn't activate until the person dies the first time, like in Highlander.

Theories, nothing more. But enough to leave things ambiguous.

[Tael]

Originally Posted by rpgman1

Nobody understands what Lelouch is about except C.C. She said to Kaguya that you only understand one aspect of Lelouch. Nunnally realized it when she touched Lelouch's hand as he was dying, then the flood of memories was shown in the background. Only C.C., Suzaku, and finally Nunnally were able to understand what Lelouch is doing all along. I doubt the Britannian soldiers know anything about Zero Requiem.

I'd say the list of people who actually knew the full truth were: Jeremiah, C.C. Suzaku, Kallen, and possibly Nina, Cecile, and Lloyd (in that order of likeliness). I'd say Nina is likely because she'd have needed to really know the whole reality (and what she said in the prison) to truth in Lelouch for Euphemia's dream. The epilogue made it pretty obvious that Kallen understood everything too, all that character development on who is the real Lelouch finally amounted to something.

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

Here's the thing with anime, you can die and get a grave and you can still come back later if the writers want it to happen. See:

Spoiler for GW:

Milliardo Peacecraft

Your Gundam can get blown up and disintegrated into dust in space by a capital ship's main cannon, and you can come back later with minor injuries see:

Spoiler for GS:

Mwu la Flaga

. You can get your suit impaled and blown up around you nowhere near a ship/space station, give a final speech and still come back from the dead. see:

Spoiler for g00:

Setsuna F. Seiei, Graham Aker.

.

Spoiler for GW:

Thank god they did not resurrect Treize. His character, at least, had dignity.

[Lord Ryo]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

You mean get stabbed? That's not a sacrifice.

Rolo sacrificed for peace. Lelouch if he lived didn't.

I meant EVERYTHING Shirley, Rollo, Euphemia. Everything that meant something to him was taken away, hell, he even lost C.C. for a moment.

After that, he should at least see his perfect world.

Originally Posted by Un1234l

Some people hope for something like this. Tragic heroes. I admit I love tragic heroes. But still.. there was a part of me that wished he was still alive.
But all in all, the ending was almost perfect for me. I wished they could have developed the stories of other characters as well, but alas... I argued in my mind which would have been better:

Lelouch dying after causing total hell and making everyone hate him
Lelouch living after causing total hell and making everyone hate him.

It was time to repent for his sins. He had good intentions that lasted throughout his life. But many obstacles stood in his way, and as a result, he... became a murderer. He was destined to fall, as had Light. But he went down nobly; done for the greater good.

Had he lived, I would imagine the world wouldn't be peaceful like how it was in the epilogue. He knew that full well, and chose to follow his original and main desire: to make the world a better place. That could only be done with his death, as the world would just try to rebel against an "unjust, tyrant dictator," which was the kind of person he was in everyone's eye but Suzaku's, Jeremiah's, and C.C.'s.

That I do agree, I was also thinking that making him die would be a reasonable ending as well, but since I liked Lelouch so much I wanted everything to be perfect for him and to go his way in the end. But of course if he really wanted to die then I support that decision of his as well.

But I like that it ended with hints that he's still alive.

[solblade05]

Originally Posted by Souryu

For all the people that thinks that Lelouch has Charles' Code, there's a major hole in this theory:

If Lelouch had Charles' Code, how the hell did he still have his Geass? Remember that when C.C. killed her predecessor, she lost her Geass and the same thing happened to Charles when V.V. gave him his Code.

Because he took the code from Charles an NOT CC. Only when you take the code from your contractor can you lose the geass, however, this way the code was transferred from Charles and CC was still immortal and thus, Lelouche still had the geass. Pretty simple.