Full Metal Panic Novel Discussion

[Hobbit]

@Hunter

Just to make things clear. In my theory, the "former" Chidori is aware of all. She created the ilusion to protect Sousuke and Tessa, and even spoke with Sousuke.

She doesn't want Sousuke to keep chasing her. She wants him to wait for her.

She cheated this "new" Chidori. But she don't despite this new her. Probably she is willing to archieve the same goals. Then, the new Chidori can speak about Sousuke and Tessa's "death" without emotions. Something that doesn't happens when she recalls Kurz because in the depths of the new one, this "former" Chidori is fully aware of Kurz's death.

Former Chidori is aware that it was all an ilusion. The new Chidori despise the love and friendship, but because she knows that its ill-fated (in this world). The display of emotions (when she says that love Sousuke and longs for him, but also tells him to don't get near) after the dome too was an action of the new Chidori.

Now we have:

Former Chidori: Aware of her actions, created an ilusion, spoke with Sousuke, cry over Kurz's death.

New Chidori: Trying to change the world. Despise the ill-fated love and the "thin" friendship. Believes that Sousuke and Tessa are dead.

But they seen to have the same goal. Even if their emotions are different.

I really believe that Tessa wants to stop all the "whispering", but she doesn't want to erase the past. She looks ahead to continue with her life.
What Leonard wants, well, I really don't know. But I don't believe that he wants to change the past to stop wars and black tecnology.

What Sophia wants, if it is the same that new Chidori, or even if New Chidori and Former have the same goals, well who knows?

[Hobbit]

The second time, probably was because Leonard was planning to leave Lemon (whos was injured) in a desert place and, if I recall, was a snowy mountain. It was an exchange for Lemon's life.

Yeah, and he really hits her. And she doesn't try to kill herself in the plane. She is pushing Kallinin to turn back the plane, so she can go back to where Sousuke is.

[Darknemo2000]

Originally Posted by Zwei

Some pictures from the FMP Sigma raws.

Well Leonard IS Chidori's not only first but second, and maybe third or fourth and so on kiss. We know that.

It does look though that she is taking being kissed by Leonard bit better by now. Maybe soon she will learn how to enjoy it too, as Leonard seems more than willing to keep this up.

It would be funny if Sousuke would take her 12th or something kiss with his dying breath, only for her to still end up with Leonard after that. Well in Shoujo it would be a rather typical scenario - the girl likes other guy but ends up having her first kiss stolen by a bastard bishie and he keeps on stealing kisses until she finally realizes that she actually likes the bad guy who forced himself on her and tore her relationship with a good, pure prince apart.

Or another end. Sousuke dies, Leo survives, Sousuke gets his last-first kiss but since Leo is alive and Chidori survives too we can still 'hope' for Leo/Chidori end somewhere. Heck he would still have kissed her twice as much as Sousuke by that point too.

Or another not so bad but still not satisfying scenario. Both heros survive and we have and ending shot with them leaning towards each other for a kiss but we never have the luck to actually see it (or next worse - we see shadows in the sunset standing close, implying kissing). And then you would have been left with rather different feelings - you are happy since both of them are alive and probably have many kisses in the future, but you never see their actual kiss, just an implications of it, while the only real kisses you saw were Leo/Chidori.

[Kovikow]

Originally Posted by Darknemo2000

Well Leonard IS Chidori's not only first but second, and maybe third or fourth and so on kiss. We know that.

It does look though that she is taking being kissed by Leonard bit better by now. Maybe soon she will learn how to enjoy it too, as Leonard seems more than willing to keep this up.

It would be funny if Sousuke would take her 12th or something kiss with his dying breath, only for her to still end up with Leonard after that. Well in Shoujo it would be a rather typical scenario - the girl likes other guy but ends up having her first kiss stolen by a bastard bishie and he keeps on stealing kisses until she finally realizes that she actually likes the bad guy who forced himself on her and tore her relationship with a good, pure prince apart.

Or another end. Sousuke dies, Leo survives, Sousuke gets his last-first kiss but since Leo is alive and Chidori survives too we can still 'hope' for Leo/Chidori end somewhere. Heck he would still have kissed her twice as much as Sousuke by that point too.

Or another not so bad but still not satisfying scenario. Both heros survive and we have and ending shot with them leaning towards each other for a kiss but we never have the luck to actually see it (or next worse - we see shadows in the sunset standing close, implying kissing). And then you would have been left with rather different feelings - you are happy since both of them are alive and probably have many kisses in the future, but you never see their actual kiss, just an implications of it, while the only real kisses you saw were Leo/Chidori.

OH NO, man. DO NO WANT any of these.

I don't agree with the kissing thing, at least not currently. Leonad kissed Kaname twice yet, she hated both ok maybe she enjoyed phisically the first one (GRR yuck eww), but I don't think she enjoys it much more, at least it wasn't written in the novels.
NO MORE kisses from Leonard or I hit Gatou with something hard.
At first i thought that it's quite probable that Sousuke could die, but now i don't think so, it would be too wierd for Kaname to be the crying "oh noooo" of the two. And a last kiss at dieing would be SO cliche. And FMP is really not a cliche story (yet). The version with Leonard winning and taking Kaname... Well it would be too tragic and absurd IMO, after all these things. The version with S and K getting together but without kiss=i don't think so. Shadow kiss=maybe
But I do not want these I think is gonna be a much more twisted, and less simply black or white ending.

[Zwei]

Originally Posted by Hobbit

@Hunter

Just to make things clear. In my theory, the "former" Chidori is aware of all. She created the ilusion to protect Sousuke and Tessa, and even spoke with Sousuke.

She doesn't want Sousuke to keep chasing her. She wants him to wait for her.

Very strange. Chidori herself told Sousuke that she will wait for HIM to come and save her no matter how many he has to kill.

@ Darknemo2000 - And that would be the last time we'll ever get to see something from the author again, If NOT the last time the public ever sees him.

[HunterSeeker]

Originally Posted by Hobbit

@Hunter

Just to make things clear. In my theory, the "former" Chidori is aware of all. She created the ilusion to protect Sousuke and Tessa, and even spoke with Sousuke.

She doesn't want Sousuke to keep chasing her. She wants him to wait for her.

She cheated this "new" Chidori. But she don't despite this new her. Probably she is willing to archieve the same goals. Then, the new Chidori can speak about Sousuke and Tessa's "death" without emotions. Something that doesn't happens when she recalls Kurz because in the depths of the new one, this "former" Chidori is fully aware of Kurz's death.

Former Chidori is aware that it was all an ilusion. The new Chidori despise the love and friendship, but because she knows that its ill-fated (in this world). The display of emotions (when she says that love Sousuke and longs for him, but also tells him to don't get near) after the dome too was an action of the new Chidori.

Now we have:

Former Chidori: Aware of her actions, created an ilusion, spoke with Sousuke, cry over Kurz's death.

New Chidori: Trying to change the world. Despise the ill-fated love and the "thin" friendship. Believes that Sousuke and Tessa are dead.

But they seen to have the same goal. Even if their emotions are different.

I really believe that Tessa wants to stop all the "whispering", but she doesn't want to erase the past. She looks ahead to continue with her life.
What Leonard wants, well, I really don't know. But I don't believe that he wants to change the past to stop wars and black tecnology.

What Sophia wants, if it is the same that new Chidori, or even if New Chidori and Former have the same goals, well who knows?

I re-checked the Chinese translation. No, she didn't tell Sousuke to wait for her; it's SHE who will wait for him so don't push himself too hard.
As well as the self-translation of that sentence: "This is actually a painful and sad thing, but the two are now useless. Their game of shallow friendships, or ill-fated lovers or such, so what if they continue? This world will be reset in the coming future regardless." As such, Sophia=Chidori is actually despising these as as whole because she won't care about it anymore, since they will be erased after the world reset.
This is an endless loop for the arguments though, but I still believe that Sohpia is taking control most of the time with just a little place for Chidori's mind to flow with, thus showing some sign of split personality.

And no, if you read NOT carefully you can see Leo's intensions. Even if Sousuke takes her back, they'll still suffer for the rest of their lives since there'll always someone longing for her power; but if the world resets then she'll just be an ordinary girl. And an important point: Chidori isn't a normal Whispered but a Whispering, the one who send BT to all other Whispered after receiving them from future (as she received Tau waves for the most, for unknown reasons). Why will she want to intervene the present, for some unacceptable past or something in the future? That's the main problem behind all these stuff.

[Hobbit]

Originally Posted by HunterSeeker

I re-checked the Chinese translation. No, she didn't tell Sousuke to wait for her; it's SHE who will wait for him so don't push himself too hard.
As well as the self-translation of that sentence: "This is actually a painful and sad thing, but the two are now useless. Their game of shallow friendships, or ill-fated lovers or such, so what if they continue? This world will be reset in the coming future regardless." As such, Sophia=Chidori is actually despising these as as whole because she won't care about it anymore, since they will be erased after the world reset.
This is an endless loop for the arguments though, but I still believe that Sohpia is taking control most of the time with just a little place for Chidori's mind to flow with, thus showing some sign of split personality.

And no, if you read NOT carefully you can see Leo's intensions. Even if Sousuke takes her back, they'll still suffer for the rest of their lives since there'll always someone longing for her power; but if the world resets then she'll just be an ordinary girl. And an important point: Chidori isn't a normal Whispered but a Whispering, the one who send BT to all other Whispered after receiving them from future (as she received Tau waves for the most, for unknown reasons). Why will she want to intervene the present, for some unacceptable past or something in the future? That's the main problem behind all these stuff.

Now you really have a point. It's she who said that will wait for him. I can'g go against the original translation. Maybe she is really waiting for Sousuke.

And yes, Chidori recognizes this world as ill-fated. Thats why she wants to changed it. Or at least, its what I think.

And you are absolutely right. Its an endless loop for arguments.

Regarding Leonard's intention, I just have the sensation that Gatou will come up with something that will surprise us all. He seens to like those twists in the story, like Kallinins betrayal. And as you said, Chidori seens to be aware that, in this world, there will be always someone chasing her, and so Sousuke would be in an endless struggle to protect her (and that's something that I'm saying since the first post... It's just seens to be clear in the novel itself in my opinion).

Its and endless discuss until Gatou release the novel. But its very nice have someone who can translate from the chinese version to discuss about the novels.

[Hobbit]

Originally Posted by Zwei

Very strange. Chidori herself told Sousuke that she will wait for HIM to come and save her no matter how many he has to kill.

@ Darknemo2000 - And that would be the last time we'll ever get to see something from the author again, If NOT the last time the public ever sees him.

Although it was in CMMD, Hunter pointed that she will still wait for him after the ilusion in ANOT.

[xand]

Darknemo2000, I understand your point of view. In the direction the novel is going, anything can happen. As for the kiss, in my view, Kaname has not had his first "real kiss". A "real kiss" is when two people who love each other, they kiss one to the other, and enjoy the moment. Be caught by surprise by someone with their lips together is not a "real kiss". Leonard can steal when kisses you like, will be nothing. It continues being a stolen kiss of a kidnapper. There is no reciprocity. A real kiss must be reciprocated physically and emotionally.

[Celebrianna]

Speaking of Sousuke and Kaname, today I accidentally came across a shipping trope about them on the TV Tropes website. The writer of the trope claims that because of the "derailment of Kaname's character" in the latter novels, quite a few fans who used to ship the Sousuke/Kaname pairing abandoned the ship preferring that Sousuke had remained the emotionless Kashim. Here's the link if anyone cares to peruse the mention:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph.../DieForOurShip

For me, I still have faith in the ship.

[Full Metal Coast]

Originally Posted by Darknemo2000

Well Leonard IS Chidori's not only first but second, and maybe third or fourth and so on kiss. We know that.

It does look though that she is taking being kissed by Leonard bit better by now. Maybe soon she will learn how to enjoy it too, as Leonard seems more than willing to keep this up.

It would be funny if Sousuke would take her 12th or something kiss with his dying breath, only for her to still end up with Leonard after that. Well in Shoujo it would be a rather typical scenario - the girl likes other guy but ends up having her first kiss stolen by a bastard bishie and he keeps on stealing kisses until she finally realizes that she actually likes the bad guy who forced himself on her and tore her relationship with a good, pure prince apart.

Or another end. Sousuke dies, Leo survives, Sousuke gets his last-first kiss but since Leo is alive and Chidori survives too we can still 'hope' for Leo/Chidori end somewhere. Heck he would still have kissed her twice as much as Sousuke by that point too.

Or another not so bad but still not satisfying scenario. Both heros survive and we have and ending shot with them leaning towards each other for a kiss but we never have the luck to actually see it (or next worse - we see shadows in the sunset standing close, implying kissing). And then you would have been left with rather different feelings - you are happy since both of them are alive and probably have many kisses in the future, but you never see their actual kiss, just an implications of it, while the only real kisses you saw were Leo/Chidori.

i dont think that Kaname enjoyed any of the kisses that she has been forced to endure. the first one when he kisses her instantle her thought is something along the lines of i wanted to share this with Sousuke so any enjoyment of it could be put down to eitehr the rush of the moment or her imagining kissing Sousuke instead of Leonard.

when Leonard kisses ehr the second time if anything it is more of a submission in not bothering to argue and fight it anymore because she knows he can do anything he wants to her and its useless to fight it at this point in time. she has also seen Leonards true colours in the way that he is only using her.

also i dont think Kaname could ever forgive Leonard and just accept being with him after everything he did in Tokyo.

after re-reading ANOT i feeling a little more positive that Gatoh wont go for a time reset ending.

Spoiler for ANOT:

"Because I'm a killer"
Sousuke gazing at Leonard said this.
"Before, it is as you said before Chidori. I killed more than 100 people. I don't know the accurate number. And there is no need to know. There were a number of people riding in the truck which I blew up in the gorge of Afghanistan, but I did not count. Generally speaking, I stole the lives of countless of men. That is why I understand. I feel I know it."
"Hmm. In other words?"
"Human's death are absolute. They won't come back again. If you can somehow bring them back as a puppet, then they would be another person."
"Why is it? If the body, mind and environment are the same, then they would be the same person right"
"Your mistaken. Death itself is a part of humans. A personality until the last moment. That is why is seriously fighting with full devotion. This is the only unchanging absolute rule. Even for that Gauron, abide by this. That person is the garbage of humans, but simultaneously know the fleeting moment of life. The difference between him and me, are what is being enjoyed and what is not being enjoyed."
"Very interesting view"

even if Kaname and Leonard agree and try and rewrite the past im hoping Gatoh somehow writes it that Sousuke stops them but when he stops them he severs the link to the future and from that point on no more black technology will be able to be accessed. once again im banking on my theory that Sousuke decides to stop them even thought there is the possibility to bring people back that have died on the basis that even though they have suffered and had harsh lives those trials have brought them all together and turned them into the people they are. also if it wasnt for those events none of them woudl ahve met each other.

i forgot to add that in the end Leonard dies.

[selilychidori]

Originally Posted by Hobbit

@Hunter

Just to make things clear. In my theory, the "former" Chidori is aware of all. She created the ilusion to protect Sousuke and Tessa, and even spoke with Sousuke.

She doesn't want Sousuke to keep chasing her. She wants him to wait for her.

She cheated this "new" Chidori. But she don't despite this new her. Probably she is willing to archieve the same goals. Then, the new Chidori can speak about Sousuke and Tessa's "death" without emotions. Something that doesn't happens when she recalls Kurz because in the depths of the new one, this "former" Chidori is fully aware of Kurz's death.

Former Chidori is aware that it was all an ilusion. The new Chidori despise the love and friendship, but because she knows that its ill-fated (in this world). The display of emotions (when she says that love Sousuke and longs for him, but also tells him to don't get near) after the dome too was an action of the new Chidori.

Now we have:

Former Chidori: Aware of her actions, created an ilusion, spoke with Sousuke, cry over Kurz's death.

New Chidori: Trying to change the world. Despise the ill-fated love and the "thin" friendship. Believes that Sousuke and Tessa are dead.

But they seen to have the same goal. Even if their emotions are different.

I really believe that Tessa wants to stop all the "whispering", but she doesn't want to erase the past. She looks ahead to continue with her life.
What Leonard wants, well, I really don't know. But I don't believe that he wants to change the past to stop wars and black tecnology.

What Sophia wants, if it is the same that new Chidori, or even if New Chidori and Former have the same goals, well who knows?

Wow I love your theory, it sounds alot like mines too! This is the only one that makes sence with the whole,..messages over messages...

dont work too hard,..
wait for me...

this sounds ALOT like the message she made in TDDA-1

Dont worry Everything be HAPPY! <3

Still funny her english isnt as good, but it's expected, shes japanese lol.

but yeah it MATCHES perfectly.

Now, the whole big crap of phenomenon is...

if the future chidori is the original chidori doing all this...

WHERE in GODS name did the black technology came from in the first place?!!?





its the chicken and the egg question...

damn.

Originally Posted by Darknemo2000

Well Leonard IS Chidori's not only first but second, and maybe third or fourth and so on kiss. We know that.

It does look though that she is taking being kissed by Leonard bit better by now. Maybe soon she will learn how to enjoy it too, as Leonard seems more than willing to keep this up......

....Sousuke gets his last-first kiss but since Leo is alive and Chidori survives too we can still 'hope' for Leo/Chidori end somewhere. Heck he would still have kissed her twice as much as Sousuke by that point too.

.......you are happy since both of them are alive and probably have many kisses in the future, but you never see their actual kiss, just an implications of it, while the only real kisses you saw were Leo/Chidori.

.

from the looks of it, you only care if someone kisses somebody in the end...

you might as well have Leonard makeout with Mardukas and call it a day.. .LOL...
Your ending theory is like reading a Rape Doujinshi. Ewwww... NO!

A real bad one. LOL....where the characters dont even look like the originals...

and yeah they exist...-sighs- poor Tessa...

[Urzu_Se7en]

I have to agree with you Chidori. It is a question I myself have been wondering for quite some time. and the answers are still not there. knowing the majority of the story as we do.. it still leaves that question un answered.


errr.. - looked ot her edited comment. - I rather not.. imagine something like that..

[selilychidori]

Originally Posted by Urzu_Se7en

I have to agree with you Chidori. It is a question I myself have been wondering for quite some time. and the answers are still not there. knowing the majority of the story as we do.. it still leaves that question un answered.


errr.. - looked ot her edited comment. - I rather not.. imagine something like that..

oh god, you have no idea. Hey wait I know you! <_<..!!

Originally Posted by Full Metal Coast

seilly sadly i have to agree and disagree with you on this part.
firstly i agree about the Leonard and Kanme kiss it meant less than nothing to Kaname and all it meant to leonard was that it was in the hopes to try and woo Kaname into cooperating with him in the long run (reference to ANOT what douche bag aka Leonard has that little monolougue about the pimps he saw when he was younger)

i have to disagree with you on the part of pushing him inside a meat procesing plant. to me that seems a like too much of a nice and quick way to die. i would aim to draw his torture out for as long as possible.

if designers made douche bags leonard would be a Gucci douche bag. top of the range.

XD!! @ post from FMC..
So you want Leonard turned to a Gucci bag? I was hoping for leather shoes,....

.......shoes made with the skin of his heart tinted in blue.

Do they come in size 7 1/2 ?

Originally Posted by Celebrianna

Speaking of Sousuke and Kaname, today I accidentally came across a shipping trope about them on the TV Tropes website. The writer of the trope claims that because of the "derailment of Kaname's character" in the latter novels, quite a few fans who used to ship the Sousuke/Kaname pairing abandoned the ship preferring that Sousuke had remained the emotionless Kashim. Here's the link if anyone cares to peruse the mention:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph.../DieForOurShip

For me, I still have faith in the ship.

WOW,..thats the first i EVER heard anyone perfering the emotionless Kashim over how he is now. Anyone who likes him in that mode,..must have seen only the first 3 episodes or something? His Kashim side only showed briefly in his tough moments....and its not even part of him at all anymore..

He changes from the very beginning..

If he goes back to Kashim, its not even Sousuke anymore. Why bother growing to become the man he is now, knowing how to kick major ass and still win back the girl...only to go back? thats pathetic.

you'd have another Heero from gundam Wing. One of them is enough, Lame.

Who the hell wants him as the lonely kashim? Sousuke isnt a Samurai.

Those fans,...who "left" am glad are gone. Hit the road!

If the Romance and Battles are too hot for you then leave the inferno! Woot!

[Urzu_Se7en]

um.. do you now? - looks left. and then right. - and I agree with him. Leonard deserves a slow.. painful.. inhuman torture! allow me to perform it to him.. as I am well.. a specialist in those fields. ( psst Selily.. Clanned should be done loading lets go watch it now )

[Zwei]

Not really, there are ALOT of fans who prefer Kashim over Sousuke especially with this Kaname/Leonard thing going on. I'v always been a Tessa shipper though, so I'm not included but the hopes of Sousuke x Tessa happening is highly unlikely. =(

[Full Metal Coast]

i have to say that i was wishing that Sousuke turned back into Kashim during ANOT as he had multiple oppertunities to kill Leonard but did not capitolise on any of them due to the reason that he is Sousuke now.

[selilychidori]

Well will there be a full metal panic following after the second raid?


Season 4 is being postponed by Kyoto (The company that produces the anime), until the light novel series ends. The "climax" of the novel series is said to be in the next release, the anime will conclude the series once the book series has ended.


well, thats that.

[Darknemo2000]

Originally Posted by selilychidori

Your ending theory is like reading a Rape Doujinshi. Ewwww... NO!

A real bad one. LOL....where the characters dont even look like the originals...

and yeah they exist...-sighs- poor Tessa...

Hey, it is not rape doujinshi - it is shoujo. You probably did not read may shoujo's if you think such endings are rare.

There are usually two ways to play good-bad guys.

If shoujo focuses on the main pair then the good guy doesnt get much focus on - usually more in the beginning, until the girl meets the bad guy and the ending where he makes a confession and the girl makes a choice between good and bad guy. She usually go "Yes! Dreams coming true! But why do I have this unhappy feeling in my chest?" Until she realizes that she likes the bad guy now.

Other way if author focuses on love triangle, then both good and bad guy's are getting almost equal 'screen' time, with minor advantage of the bad guy. The bad guy forces to take girl's first kiss, while the good guy gets her second (Sousuke doesn't have this honor though) and the girl even ends up going out with good guy before she realizes how much she started to care the bad guy, though she despised him in the beginning.

It is not rape dojins. Just shoujo. You would be surprised by the amount of manga's where heroine is being forced on by the guy and learns to enjoy it. I sometimes wonder myself too. Why in the girl magazine thats such a popular theme (sometimes in smut with even an actual rape scene).

And yes, selilychidori, romance end is probably the only thing that still makes me curious about FMP to tell the truth. I just became indifferent to everything else in it.

[Zwei]

Originally Posted by Darknemo2000

Hey, it is not rape doujinshi - it is shoujo. You probably did not read may shoujo's if you think such endings are rare.

There are usually two ways to play good-bad guys.

If shoujo focuses on the main pair then the good guy doesnt get much focus on - usually more in the beginning, until the girl meets the bad guy and the ending where he makes a confession and the girl makes a choice between good and bad guy. She usually go "Yes! Dreams coming true! But why do I have this unhappy feeling in my chest?" Until she realizes that she likes the bad guy now.

Other way if author focuses on love triangle, then both good and bad guy's are getting almost equal 'screen' time, with minor advantage of the bad guy. The bad guy forces to take girl's first kiss, while the good guy gets her second (Sousuke doesn't have this honor though) and the girl even ends up going out with good guy before she realizes how much she started to care the bad guy, though she despised him in the beginning.

It is not rape dojins. Just shoujo. You would be surprised by the amount of manga's where heroine is being forced on by the guy and learns to enjoy it. I sometimes wonder myself too. Why in the girl magazine thats such a popular theme (sometimes in smut with even an actual rape scene).

And yes, selilychidori, romance end is probably the only thing that still makes me curious about FMP to tell the truth. I just became indifferent to everything else in it.

I know what you mean and I agree. That's pretty much why I never read shoujo or worse, josei - where the main character sleeps with every men possible in the manga untill she finds the right one for her; the guy who she never slept with.

There's no way it will happen in FMP though. It's not shoujo in the first place and besides, that would go against the moral code of shounen/seinen manga/novels/anime. FMP crazy fans would raid the author's house.

What selilychidori meant was about doujinshi based on seinen/shounen manga, where the main character will probably lose the girl to the bad guy.