Romance in Macross (Take 2)

[LoveMeKags]

Originally Posted by Thess

I'm sorry. I hope everything will be ok.

Oh, yes; it hit North Carolina hard and we're all trying to recover. Every once in a while, you'll get a flash of the lights from them trying to repair the electric. A lot of places got hit worse than where I am. I live in North Raleigh, so lucky me. But a friend of mine lives in Lee, where there were 11 deaths...

But I'm fine. I thank you for the worry though. But it doesn't make you feel good, you know? Just when you think the disaster is over, something else happens...

Originally Posted by soranarumi

Is he said it, clearly? It can be assumed like that because then Ozma requested it (as I remembered) to protect Ranka.

Does he? Yes. He says it quite clear:
- "Then I met her, and I joined the S.M.S. to protect her... to fight... to protect... ever since..."

Actually, Ozma BEGGED Alto to protect her, not "requested." But this was before Ozma went rouge with the S.M.S. and Ranka left in Ep21.
This is why I see Ozma saying "I trust her to you," as like a proposal for marriage, because there was no other reason why he does this. Alto already (as many have stated and Brera too) does a poor job of protecting her from the start, so it leaves me to wonder why Ozma is suddenly so trustworthy of Alto having her FULLY to protect. You see?
Alto is shocked and upset because he's trying to read the man, that much is obvious. But I think what goes through his mind is: "Me? Are you sure? I mean, I've failed 9/10 times!" He probably thinks Michael is the better choice.

Originally Posted by soranarumi

Yes she is his "childhood friend" (in the movie story). As I remember, Nanase are not in the movie so the role of "Ranka's friend" is given to Alto.

Nanase is in the SECOND movie, but in the first, it is possible.

Originally Posted by soranarumi

When Ranka holding Alto's hand (first movie, in the night when Ranka 'lured' Alto to the supermarket), Alto didn't give any blush, but I do love that act (Ranka +1 points) I think it can be a base that Alto didn't have "too much" love feelings (he did have) to her as "how much" his feelings towards Sheryl.

Um, re-watch that scene on the train. Listen to what he's saying and then watch the scene where she holds his HANDS (with an S), and you'll see WHY he doesn't blush. It just wasn't a moment to do so. That was actually one of the most romantic moments I'd seen Ranka pull off, to be frank with you. For one thing, she just encouraged him that she liked him as he was (just like a wife). She was comforting him and he was smiling at her softly, thanking her for the reassurance. This, to both characters, was not a romantic pass; but it served as one to a viewer. That moment was one of those moments where he just needed a friend, and Ranka was the closest. If Sheryl or even Nanase had been there, the scene would play differently but they would see be the "friend" he needed.

Again +1 for Ranka on her acting!

I'll answer the romantic interest stuff below...

Originally Posted by soranarumi

I think maybe Alto meet Sheryl first, then he meets Ranka (maybe).

Alto meets Sheryl on Galaxy during a kabuki act and she gives him flowers, telling him she'll be just like him someday. Like I said above, Ranka must've met Alto around a month or two ago, at most. It's more recent than a "childhood" friend, that is for sure. A childhood friend would've known WHY Alto left acting.

I'm going to say that their meeting MIGHT have played out like Ep1 without the Vajra attack and Sheryl being on Frontier. Perhaps Ranka ran into him on the way to a stunt as he was changing. She seems to see him as just as much an influence as she did in the beginning of the series...

Originally Posted by soranarumi

I don't see any romantic scene at the first movie (either AxS or AxR, all I see is the progressing of the "meeting" and "building-bonds" between the three of them). So called "movie-star-date" seems like "to-know-Sheryl-more".

Um, your radar was asleep then?

There is a QUITE A BIT of romantic build in both girls from Alto's part or even their part. Let me be frank:
- Alto and Sheryl sharing a "pilot vs. singing" moment on the field on their so-called "date"
- Alto not only moves close as if to kiss Ranka but attempts to make an excuse for his time with Sheryl just like she is his girlfriend
- Alto realizing Sheryl's feelings and telling her she's not alone, that he is basically there for her (that is romantic, very much so)
- Alto's desire to rescue Ranka despite his inability to (that is very romantic if you consider many movies do this with the heroine)
- Alto and Ranka sharing a content smile with hands overlapping (this was very romantic)
- Sheryl letting Alto keep her earring (which is a sign of a deeper bond if you consider it's her GRANDMOTHER'S heirloom)
So; honestly, look back at the 1st movie again and tell me where the romance doesn't show? Anyone with me on that?

When it comes to Alto's feelings towards Ranka in the first movie, I'm not sure if you could say he just views her as a friend. When you watch the Family Mart scene back, he moves close, as if just to comfort her, then you can see a romantic field just build between them and before Sheryl's image appears, they look like they are about to kiss (Alto even reads those signals!). It is clear from that scene that he finds her attractive but doesn't know if she likes him back, probably. So he leaves his options open for Sheryl too. It's just, by the time Ranka is brave enough (remember she is still quite bashful) to state her feelings verbally, he's already interested in Sheryl as more than a friend. So, to me, it reads off as a Minmei rejection scene to me when I look at the first movie and think about how the second one might look as he says "I'm grateful" just like Hikaru did very much with Minmei in the series: happy for her love but has already fallen out of love with her and looks at Misa more romantically.
Honestly, had ALTO been more self-confident in himself and made the first move to state he wanted a more deeper relationship than friends, perhaps their relationship would've taken off more like Alto's and Sheryl's in the series (her living with him after Ozma is missing). But instead, he takes her feelings into account first.

The Family Mart scene shows him trying to make an excuse for Sheryl as if trying to elude himself from saying he accidentally made a mistake and cheated on his girlfriend and she caught him in the act. This just proved that he saw Ranka as more than a friend. Because, for one thing, if Ranka seemed okay about everything, then why take what Michael said so seriously?

Originally Posted by soranarumi

As I remember, MovieRanka is supposed to be more active than TVRanka.

I will laugh at this.

It's not you, I promise. It's just, I remember telling my best friend that Movie!Ranka did something that TV!Ranka failed to do correctly: be CORRECT bait for the Vajra!

In the movies, in the active field of romance, I'd say that TV!Ranka had more of a chance here. Alto was less interest in helping Movie!Ranka achieve her dream than he was about TV!Ranka, whom needed his support and he gave it. 3/4 of the movie, he is seen with Sheryl in the beginning before her career takes off. In the series, he was only seen with Sheryl 3/4 of the series AFTER Ranka's career took off and her debut was in process.
If they'd switched roles (TV!Ranka be Movie!Ranka and Movie!Ranka be TV!Ranka), perhaps he would've been more interested in her as a love interest in both movie and series.
But we have to realize that if Kawamori really only WOULD pair Alto with Sheryl in ANY universe, no matter what scenario, then Alto would never end up with Ranka, even if he seemed lovestruck by her. So, that is why I hate Kawamori's writing all the more right now.

Originally Posted by soranarumi

But I think, the second movie is "love-relationship-progress" theme.

To be quite frank, from what I can read about the second movie, it is more than just that. Actually, THIS is where the "bonds" information fits most. Because, in the second movie, they show more strengthening in the "bonds" department as friends, warriors, even a sisterly bond is formed between Ranka and Sheryl during her concert. So, the "love-relationship-progress" theme really doesn't fit, as 3/4 of the movie, the characters are separated by one thing or another.
- Alto is in the hospital
- Sheryl is in jail
- Ranka is in confusion, trying to keep her hope alive by helping Sheryl (the concert)
- Sheryl is presumed dead after she falls into space
- Alto spends time thinking by himself
- Ranka prepares for the final battle by herself
- Sheryl is on planet Vajra (not sure about this, but they find her there), alone
So... they really end up, most of the time separated from each other. So the first movie was about the relationships mostly and the second is more about their bonds to keep each other together and keep their hope alive. They pretty much show a good feet too when Sheryl and Ranka sing "Sayonara no Tsubasa."

Originally Posted by Thess

Tv Ranka was ALSO active (remember how Ozma recalled her decision to go to Gallia?), but had the penchant to regress due to the distress ball she was holding. The plot really didn't allow her to grow or when she took steps to grow, it eventually turned for worse (episode 21, anyone?). In the movies, they actually work (speaking on the first one).

Despite the fact I still hate Ep21, I agree with you.

In a field of battle or war, Ranka was just as active in the series. She had the heart, you can give her that, but she lacked the brain for how things would work out. You see that Alto is also the same on the war front.
BOTH Alto and Ranka charge blindly without really thinking things through.
Which is one reason why we could put BOTH Alto and Ranka into the "active but reckless" category.

The plot actually ended up bringing her to memories that CAUSED her not to grow. Had Ranka not been amnesia-ridden and just remembered the reasons WHY by the time she would even begin to grow in the romantic field, perhaps the growth would've been different. But by the time she took steps to grow towards being like Sheryl, the memories brought confusion to her. Especially when she starts to remember her parents and brother, even 117's destruction; it left her wondering on where she stands in the world even as a shield for Frontier against the Vajra or if the Vajra really ARE their enemy.

Honestly, when it comes to the Vajra, TV!Ranka was the better choice. Her trust of the Vajra led her to look for the "true source of the issue." Meanwhile, everyone wanted to just kill them, even in the movies.
When Galaxy wasn't controlling the Vajra, they were looking for Ranka (their communicator between races - a way to understand humans) and both fleets randomly attacked them without questioning (both 117 and Frontier). Ranka, at the epicenter of all this, is thrown into an amnesia cause she thinks it's all her fault. I wouldn't blame her though.
But when Galaxy is controlling the Vajra and Ai-kun hops out of his shell acting all friendly, she begins to believe in a peace between Vajra and humans. Which, to me, just proves how big a heart that she has, loving two races despite what they've done, she shows believe in peace just like SDF-1 did. Meanwhile, everyone else can't find the same belief as her. So Ranka goes off like the S.M.S. to find "proof" of this belief.

Poorly planned, yes; but it just shows that she and Alto are teenagers: they are both reckless but have the heart to show they love a lot.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

Oh, yes; it hit North Carolina hard and we're all trying to recover. Every once in a while, you'll get a flash of the lights from them trying to repair the electric. A lot of places got hit worse than where I am. I live in North Raleigh, so lucky me. But a friend of mine lives in Lee, where there were 11 deaths...
But I'm fine. I thank you for the worry though. But it doesn't make you feel good, you know? Just when you think the disaster is over, something else happens...

Okay. You're all be in my prayers.

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

Actually, Ozma BEGGED Alto to protect her, not "requested." But this was before Ozma went rouge with the S.M.S. and Ranka left in Ep21.
This is why I see Ozma saying "I trust her to you," as like a proposal for marriage, because there was no other reason why he does this. Alto already (as many have stated and Brera too) does a poor job of protecting her from the start, so it leaves me to wonder why Ozma is suddenly so trustworthy of Alto having her FULLY to protect. You see?
Alto is shocked and upset because he's trying to read the man, that much is obvious. But I think what goes through his mind is: "Me? Are you sure? I mean, I've failed 9/10 times!" He probably thinks Michael is the better choice.

Dunno if was like a marriage proposal. Ozma and Alto later (in other episode) react to the possible loss of Sheryl and Cathy in the same way/frame. They both go to rescue Ranka, she's important in their life.

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

Um, re-watch that scene on the train. Listen to what he's saying and then watch the scene where she holds his HANDS (with an S), and you'll see WHY he doesn't blush. It just wasn't a moment to do so. That was actually one of the most romantic moments I'd seen Ranka pull off, to be frank with you. For one thing, she just encouraged him that she liked him as he was (just like a wife). She was comforting him and he was smiling at her softly, thanking her for the reassurance. This, to both characters, was not a romantic pass; but it served as one to a viewer. That moment was one of those moments where he just needed a friend, and Ranka was the closest. If Sheryl or even Nanase had been there, the scene would play differently but they would see be the "friend" he needed.

I love the scene of the train, it shows they are great pals. But it's something I would do for my pals and confidants. Dunno if it served as a romantic pass for the viewer, but (like I said earlier), that showcased Ranka is a great friend... but Alto still has no romantic feelings for her.

"Would that change?" Was the unanswered question.

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

Alto meets Sheryl on Galaxy during a kabuki act and she gives him flowers, telling him she'll be just like him someday. Like I said above, Ranka must've met Alto around a month or two ago, at most. It's more recent than a "childhood" friend, that is for sure. A childhood friend would've known WHY Alto left acting.

I think she also told him that he looked as if he was like "soaring through the sky". You can think what implications those words had for impressionable young Alto.

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

I'm going to say that their meeting MIGHT have played out like Ep1 without the Vajra attack and Sheryl being on Frontier. Perhaps Ranka ran into him on the way to a stunt as he was changing. She seems to see him as just as much an influence as she did in the beginning of the series...

Umm, or maybe they met in the Nyan Nyan or in school. Who knows, right?

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

- Alto and Sheryl sharing a "pilot vs. singing" moment on the field on their so-called "date"

I think before that was all the blushing and attraction Alto felt for Sheryl. The kiss on the cheek, the all "natural" remark, the fact he took her to his favorite place, etc, etc.

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

- Alto's desire to rescue Ranka despite his inability to (that is very romantic if you consider many movies do this with the heroine)

Sheryl got the same in the beginning. Plus, at the end, is Sheryl who tells him to go and rescue Ranka (he came to rescue Sheryl originally). Sheryl and Alto are working to rescue Ranka. This is an establishing moment for the THREE.

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

In the movies, in the active field of romance, I'd say that TV!Ranka had more of a chance here. Alto was less interest in helping Movie!Ranka achieve her dream than he was about TV!Ranka, whom needed his support and he gave it. 3/4 of the movie, he is seen with Sheryl in the beginning before her career takes off. In the series, he was only seen with Sheryl 3/4 of the series AFTER Ranka's career took off and her debut was in process.

Ranka was less interested in getting his help. That established her as more likable, IMO. More as equal and less as someone who saw him as crutch.

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

But we have to realize that if Kawamori really only WOULD pair Alto with Sheryl in ANY universe, no matter what scenario, then Alto would never end up with Ranka, even if he seemed lovestruck by her. So, that is why I hate Kawamori's writing all the more right now.

TV series written by Yoshino: leans on Sheryl according to him.
Movies written by Kawamori (and Yoshino): He officially chooses Sheryl.
The AU manga Kawamori seems hyped about: Alto/Sheryl.

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

To be quite frank, from what I can read about the second movie, it is more than just that.

There was a THREE MONTHS GAP between the movies (where Alto was working as Sheryl's bodyguard like Brera was apparently?). Misa and Hikaru only needed a month to fall in love in DYRL (and most of it was unseen).

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

Honestly, when it comes to the Vajra, TV!Ranka was the better choice. Her trust of the Vajra led her to look for the "true source of the issue." Meanwhile, everyone wanted to just kill them, even in the movies.

Sure, to the plot, you mean. Like Minmay was, wasn't she? I never overlook Ranka's contribution to the plot. It's in the romance field she was written as the Macross Triangle Archetypal "Loser".

Seems Kawamori likes reusing some ideas. Misa "translates" Do you Remember Love? While Sheryl writes The Wings of Goodbye. The final songs in the movie.

Now I dislike how TV!Ranka's arc was handled overall. She had a lot of promise, but they tossed her around like a damsel in distress every. single. time. Worst that was when she was trying to be independent.

[karice67]

Originally Posted by Thess

TV series written by Yoshino: leans on Sheryl according to him.
Movies written by Kawamori (and Yoshino): He officially chooses Sheryl.

I think we need to stop referring to this 'division' - all interviews I've read/seen/heard where they get asked about the triangle suggest that the triangle resolution is agreed on by all major players (Kawamori, Yoshino, and probably series director Kikuchi too).

All Yoshino convinced Kawamori of was that they couldn't show Alto choosing because it's not in his character to say something so definite. I actually agree with this assessment of Alto's character (even though I was super mad two and a half years ago), but I'll get to why only when we finish the rewatch in a couple of weeks... Perhaps they could have shown it in some other way, but would people have accepted that anyway? The explosion over the movie conclusion suggests not...

[Thess]

Originally Posted by karice67

All Yoshino convinced Kawamori of was that they couldn't show Alto choosing because it's not in his character to say something so definite. I actually agree with this assessment of Alto's character (even though I was super mad two and a half years ago), but I'll get to why only when we finish the rewatch in a couple of weeks... Perhaps they could have shown it in some other way, but would people have accepted that anyway? The explosion over the movie conclusion suggests not...

Fair enough! Yoshino did also say Alto would be the kind of guy who would prefer the sky over the two girls, right? Now Sheryl's flight lessons could come handy.

[LoveMeKags]

Originally Posted by Thess

Okay. You're all be in my prayers.

Thank you.

Originally Posted by Thess

Dunno if was like a marriage proposal. Ozma and Alto later (in other episode) react to the possible loss of Sheryl and Cathy in the same way/frame. They both go to rescue Ranka, she's important in their life.

To Ozma, I meant. I'm not quite sure if Alto was trying to figure out why the person who keeps Ranka like a "daughter" really would just easily say "please, I beg you, protect her no matter what." But, to Ozma, he gave Alto permission to be her all. That, to me, lead me in that "I trust her to you" direction as a marriage arrangement.

Originally Posted by Thess

I love the scene of the train, it shows they are great pals. But it's something I would do for my pals and confidants. Dunno if it served as a romantic pass for the viewer, but (like I said earlier), that showcased Ranka is a great friend... but Alto still has no romantic feelings for her.

"Would that change?" Was the unanswered question.

Like I said, look at the Family Mart scene. He seems to want to kiss her and leans in before Sheryl's face appears beside them and startles them. It's an obvious sign that Alto wanted to further a relationship but before then never saw the signs (he's still a little dense, especially with Sheryl). I guess it depends on how you see Alto reacting. He's more comfortable with Ranka than Sheryl except in the second move (from what I can see of images). He shows attachment to both girls equally, but it appears that Alto DOES consider Ranka a romantic interest but is weary of HER feelings.

Originally Posted by Thess

I think she also told him that he looked as if he was like "soaring through the sky". You can think what implications those words had for impressionable young Alto.

Well, that's when they met in the movies.

Originally Posted by Thess

Umm, or maybe they met in the Nyan Nyan or in school. Who knows, right?

Agreed... but it leaves you to image it, ne?

Originally Posted by Thess

I think before that was all the blushing and attraction Alto felt for Sheryl. The kiss on the cheek, the all "natural" remark, the fact he took her to his favorite place, etc, etc.

Well, yes, but the most romantic part for Alto probably was talking about the sky, them sharing that common moment.

Originally Posted by Thess

Sheryl got the same in the beginning. Plus, at the end, is Sheryl who tells him to go and rescue Ranka (he came to rescue Sheryl originally). Sheryl and Alto are working to rescue Ranka. This is an establishing moment for the THREE.

Where did Sheryl get it? She didn't get the screaming nor him dodging what SHOULD have been his death (considering all those damn missiles) and nearly being killed a second time when being captured by the strange creature to save her (that was RANKA!)

Sure, Alto might've been sent in that direction, but actually, if you look at that scene, Alto wasn't actually aware Ranka was there. Remember what Ozma said to Ranka the night before: "what's more important, singing or Frontier?" Ozma told Ranka and Alto not to go to the concert, so he thought she was safe, obviously, until he hears Sheryl state she's using herself as bait, then he not only freaks but goes "damn it! She didn't listen to Ozma!" in his head. So Alto goes after her on his own really because he didn't realize she was there.

You have to read back at some scenes when noticing this because that was an obvious reaction from Alto due to the circumstances: Ozma vs. Ranka actually listening to her brother.

Sheryl, however, was rescued by Ozma later. Maybe we should read that little moment of "you can sing all you want" as romantic too?

I think that one of the BEST rescues and romantic moments for me between any character was Alto risking his plane, life, and promise to Sheryl to just save RANKA. He said he'd return with the earring... and he risked that promise just to save one person: Ranka.

Originally Posted by Thess

Ranka was less interested in getting his help. That established her as more likable, IMO. More as equal and less as someone who saw him as crutch.

Yes, but it made Sheryl spend 3/4 of the time with him, making him lose interest in Ranka. That made the triangle unfair (speaking of movie 1 only, remember). At least, in the series, there were a lot of Alto/Ranka moments that lead questionable impressions to whether Alto would ever be with Ranka romantically; but in the movie... you get 1, maybe 3-5 tops scenes (SCENES ONLY) of them together... not moments or points of interest either.

Originally Posted by Thess

TV series written by Yoshino: leans on Sheryl according to him.
Movies written by Kawamori (and Yoshino): He officially chooses Sheryl.
The AU manga Kawamori seems hyped about: Alto/Sheryl.

Exactly, if there WAS a way to have Alto end up with Ranka, he would still put him with Sheryl, despite the possibility that Alto loves Ranka more. It just isn't right, really...

Originally Posted by Thess

There was a THREE MONTHS GAP between the movies (where Alto was working as Sheryl's bodyguard like Brera was apparently?). Misa and Hikaru only needed a month to fall in love in DYRL (and most of it was unseen).

But like I said, I doubt the second movie is about the build up in the "romance department" because of the fact that's already been covered in the first movie (and like you stated, the gap). It's more about the bond, literally, because they are separated 3/4 of the time.

Originally Posted by Thess

Sure, to the plot, you mean. Like Minmay was, wasn't she? I never overlook Ranka's contribution to the plot. It's in the romance field she was written as the Macross Triangle Archetypal "Loser".

...no comment towards her being a loser. Honestly, she had to try and gain a gender-challenged boy as her lover... that's a hard thing to do, really. Sheryl, however, started out as a damsel in distress if you look at her emotions. She was constantly feeling down and trying to stand on her own feet instead of speaking the truth to Alto (which really was not right by her). Ranka at least stated her issues up until she just couldn't do it anymore (ie: after he talks to her after Ep15). She, at that point, starts hiding things. I don't think it really has to do with him telling her to "never remember" her past, but I think it was a reaction to watching him ruthlessly destroy the Vajra while in Brera's possession. (The whole conflict was mean to her character, really.)

Originally Posted by Thess

Seems Kawamori likes reusing some ideas. Misa "translates" Do you Remember Love? While Sheryl writes The Wings of Goodbye. The final songs in the movie.

Yeah, I noticed that too.
I fell over too. I could picture doing that for Ranka but not for Sheryl. It would actually be nice if Ranka was the one to write it on the wall, so he could break that Misa dynamic, ya know?

Originally Posted by Thess

Now I dislike how TV!Ranka's arc was handled overall. She had a lot of promise, but they tossed her around like a damsel in distress every. single. time. Worst that was when she was trying to be independent.

Agreed.

She's a lovely character. I hope I portray this in my fanfic Watashi no Kare wa Pilot! I'm currently at the turning point in the draft (chapters 1 and 2 are uploaded to FF.Net) and it IS AruRan, but if you wanna tell me if I make her character grow up by the end, you can read it for me.

[karice67]

Originally Posted by Thess

Now I dislike how TV!Ranka's arc was handled overall. She had a lot of promise, but they tossed her around like a damsel in distress every. single. time. Worst that was when she was trying to be independent.

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

Agreed.

Personally, I feel that you're both a bit too negative about TV!Ranka, whom I really think wasn't that bad. There are things she can't do (like pilot) and its her central role as the one connection between the Vajra and humans that makes everyone want a piece of her, so of course she'd have to be rescued more often than not. But she also agreed to and pushed for some interventions (ep. 12, ep.21) even though the latter was arguably caused by a weakness on her part. But these are matters for the Ranka character thread (I really don't want to get pulled into another shipping discussion...)

Originally Posted by Thess

Fair enough! Yoshino did also say Alto would be the kind of guy who would prefer the sky over the two girls, right? Now Sheryl's flight lessons could come handy.

Yup...the question is, how much of that was tongue-in-cheek? Because he really liked it how fans just went ahead and decided that whichever girl they liked won

But yes, Sheryl clearly has the advantage given this aspect of Alto.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by karice67

Personally, I feel that you're both a bit too negative about TV!Ranka, whom I really think wasn't that bad. There are things she can't do (like pilot) and its her central role as the one connection between the Vajra and humans that makes everyone want a piece of her, so of course she'd have to be rescued more often than not. But she also agreed to and pushed for some interventions (ep. 12, ep.21) even though the latter was arguably caused by a weakness on her part. But these are matters for the Ranka character thread (I really don't want to get pulled into another shipping discussion...)

You're right. This should be in the Ranka thread. I felt her potential was wasted because of this. I like her quite a bit (obviously not as much as Sheryl or Michel), but I like her development in the movie more because she seems to have more to do than being rescued or looking helpless. It gets tiresome in a one-trick-pony thing when a character only does one thing, you know?

Originally Posted by karice67

Yup...the question is, how much of that was tongue-in-cheek? Because he really liked it how fans just went ahead and decided that whichever girl they liked won

But yes, Sheryl clearly has the advantage given this aspect of Alto.

Yes. Or that they got tired of his fanboying the sky and sought comfort in each others' arms.

Ranka's got the perfect height.

[karice67]

Originally Posted by Thess

You're right. This should be in the Ranka thread. I felt her potential was wasted because of this. I like her quite a bit (obviously not as much as Sheryl or Michel), but I like her development in the movie more because she seems to have more to do than being rescued or looking helpless. It gets tiresome in a one-trick-pony thing when a character only does one thing, you know?

Personally, I agree with Kawamori-sensei in that the character arcs in the movies are too abrupt, that what happened in the series is more 'realistic'. I think Ranka's too much of a Mary Sue in the movies, in a way...but I'll wait til everyone has a chance to see the second one.

Originally Posted by Thess

Yes. Or that they got tired of his fanboying the sky and sought comfort in each others' arms.

Ranka's got the perfect height.

Haha...as they clearly show in that final episode

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Thess

Yes. Or that they got tired of his fanboying the sky and sought comfort in each others' arms.

Ranka's got the perfect height.

You do know that your crack pairing has zero canon support, right?

[Thess]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

You do know that your crack pairing has zero canon support, right?

My pairing has the last episode hugging (Ranka... rather snuggly diving into Sheryl's exposed rack) while Alto's nowhere close to the girls, rather he flies into his one true love: the sky.

My first Witness testifies:

Originally Posted by karice67

Haha...as they clearly show in that final episode

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Thess

My pairing has the last episode hugging (Ranka... rather snuggly diving into Sheryl's exposed rack) while Alto's nowhere close to the girls, rather he flies into his one true love: the sky.

My first Witness testifies:

Bravo, the best sign of crack pairing: Turning a perfectly innocent shot into the defining moment of the imagined romance.

[Thess]

How about dshootingstarb? The song that is mostly about Sheryl's relationship with Ranka...according to May'n. You got to read the lyrics. They aren't exactly about innocent, platonic friendship.

[karice67]

Originally Posted by Thess

My pairing has the last episode hugging (Ranka... rather snuggly diving into Sheryl's exposed rack) while Alto's nowhere close to the girls, rather he flies into his one true love: the sky.

hahahah - pity though, that Yoshino also noted somewhere that if he'd been Alto, he'd have been afraid of approaching them and just flown away ^^

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Thess

How about dshootingstarb? The song that is mostly about Sheryl's relationship with Ranka...according to May'n. You got to read the lyrics. They aren't exactly about innocent, platonic friendship.

How about actual stuff which happened in the show or movies?

[raile]

From what I read from someone here, Alto should be with Ranka because she makes more of a perfect housewife than Sheryl. Looks like we're back in the early 19th Century and backwards.

[Kyuu]

Any human + Sharon Apple is wrong.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by raile

From what I read from someone here, Alto should be with Ranka because she makes more of a perfect housewife than Sheryl. Looks like we're back in the early 19th Century and backwards.

Yeah, get back in the kitchen, girls!

I really don't know what standards some people still have nowadays...

Besides, Alto can cook good enough for both of them. ^^

[raile]

That's right! Women should know that dreams and careers are concocted by the devil to distract them from the household chores!

In any case, it's a retarded argument to be honest.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by raile

That's right! Women should know that dreams and careers are concocted by the devil to distract them from the household chores!

In any case, it's a retarded argument to be honest.

I know. There's a reason why Sheryl, who is very self-assertive and career-minded, is seen as the more interesting of the two girls.

[ShinyBunny]

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

Like I said, look at the Family Mart scene. He seems to want to kiss her and leans in before Sheryl's face appears beside them and startles them. It's an obvious sign that Alto wanted to further a relationship but before then never saw the signs (he's still a little dense, especially with Sheryl). I guess it depends on how you see Alto reacting. He's more comfortable with Ranka than Sheryl except in the second move (from what I can see of images). He shows attachment to both girls equally, but it appears that Alto DOES consider Ranka a romantic interest but is weary of HER feelings.

Yeah, you are taking some liberties there. I just rewatched that scene and that's not even close to what happened. He smiles proudly at her and she is mostly in shock, but there is no indication that either one are expecting a kiss. It's not in Alto's character to boldly kiss someone in the middle of a store. He doesn't lean forward or even change his expression. When he sees Sheryl he tries to explain things. It was a nice moment, but romantic? Not really. It's pretty much devoid of romantic chemistry. It's great Ranka was proactive in talking to Alto, which is better than the series, but it didn't show what you are suggesting.

And call me crazy, but I never viewed the train scene as a great romantic moment fror Alto and Ranka. The majority of it was him talking about his feelings for Sheryl and how he felt obviously inferior to her in a lot of ways, which brought out some issues from his childhood. Ranka encourages him and helps him like any friend would. If it had been a moment about the two of them and not about someone else I might have seen it as romantic. Possibly. It was an important scene because it helped cement their bond and friendship and the chance of something more the next movie.

I also just fail to see how being overly comfortable with someone is a great thing in a love triangle. That usually leads to friend zoning, which is what happened.