Nanoha - StrikerS - Episode 13 Discussion / Poll

[Erio]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

@Erio

Why do you believe that Jail created them? I'm not arguring whether a not they're born naturally or artifically, but what makes you think that Jail was the one who did it?

He appears to be the head scientist of the project. I never thought or said he was alone in it, but he is the main guy. The project most likely has dozens of secret labs scattered around the universe, each of them researching and developing different kinds of weapons. However, Jail himself is the one gathering the Relics, and he is the one giving orders whenever a Relic is found. Lutecia and Zest are both experimental Relic weapons, so Jail obviously is involved in their creations, even if not directly. He could have ordered another "doctor" to do the actual thing, but he knows about it.

Apparently, they create these weapons and sell them to some "clients". If Lutecia and Zest were under the "possession" of a client, then they would most likely speak to their clients first, or do their client's bidding. However, they are both freelancers right now, doing whatever they wish. Jail is just asking for their help.

Now, I'm sure you'll say, what if another scientist not related to Jail at all created them? Lutecia and Zest would not be talking to Jail like this, and Lutecia would not know him and say stuff like "I dont dislike him", if that was the case. They'd probably be Jail's enemies for all I know, as they would both be trying to collect the same item. After Lutecia retrieves a Relic for Jail, he is the one who keeps it, not some other scientist. Jail gives them information about a Relic's location, and they go retrieve it. Not the fairest of deals, but it works for them both.

[Chaos2Frozen]

@Erio

I see things from your point of view. But of course, this is under the assumption that "experimental Relic weapons" is a biological creation. Remember that Jail also created the gadgets.

And unlike the Numbers, Lutecia doesn't use the same relic magic circle. Her's is Velka. Meaning that she's most likely something completely diffierent.

Bah, nvm... I don't even know what I'm getting at...

[Tokkan]

Actually, Lutecia and Zest aren't retrieving the relics for Scaglietti, they're retrieving them for themselves. It's just that Scaglietti wants relics in general and Lutecia and Zest want specific relics (like Lulu wanting the No. 11 Relic), so Lutecia and Zest work with him in a supposed bargain where if it's not the relics they want, they give them to Scaglietti. While Zest and Lutecia are "experimental relic weapons", there's no indication as to whom they were created by, and the fact Zest and Agito don't like Scaglietti seems to give off the image that they hate people like Scaglietti, who experiment on living beings. This is especially evident as Agito wasn't even experimented on by the good doctor, she was experimented on by some unknown scientists.

But in the end, we don't have the full story, so we don't know whether they were created by Scaglietti or someone else entirely. To make adamant assumptions can lead to disappointments when they turn out to not be true, so I'd only take any speculation as to origins as just that, speculation. To argue with someone else's speculation only makes sense when their speculation has a likelyhood of 0% due to being outrageous.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Rob the Fox

she was experimented on by TSAB scientists.

Wait wait, I thought Zest said something like,

"They (TSAB) would treat her better... At least better than these people."

[Tokkan]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Wait wait, I thought Zest said something like,

"They (TSAB) would treat her better... At least better than these people."

Corrected.

[mechdra]

From what I have observed, the Relic is an equalvalent of the Philosopher Stone in FMA. The relic miight conatin a soul. By inserting it into a body, the body will have a soul and it will become aliove. For that reason, I felt that Lutecia is trying to use Relic to revive someone that she dear and love. If the relic is inserted into a body, then that person will be alive again because the soul get a body.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by mechdra

From what I have observed, the Relic is an equalvalent of the Philosopher Stone in FMA. The relic miight conatin a soul. By inserting it into a body, the body will have a soul and it will become aliove. For that reason, I felt that Lutecia is trying to use Relic to revive someone that she dear and love. If the relic is inserted into a body, then that person will be alive again because the soul get a body.

Erm... Why do you believe so?

They never did mention what so special about a Relic...

[Jimmy C]

Put it like this: Whether Lutecia and Zest are the "relic weapons" or their devices are, they're a seperate project from the Numbers.

[Erio]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

@Erio

I see things from your point of view. But of course, this is under the assumption that "experimental Relic weapons" is a biological creation. Remember that Jail also created the gadgets.

And unlike the Numbers, Lutecia doesn't use the same relic magic circle. Her's is Velka. Meaning that she's most likely something completely diffierent.

Bah, nvm... I don't even know what I'm getting at...

My guess, as hinted by my Original Characters, is that they have been fused with a Relic. Of course, this is pure speculation. The Numbers, on the other hand, appear to be more androids than humans.

Originally Posted by Rob the Fox

Actually, Lutecia and Zest aren't retrieving the relics for Scaglietti, they're retrieving them for themselves. It's just that Scaglietti wants relics in general and Lutecia and Zest want specific relics (like Lulu wanting the No. 11 Relic), so Lutecia and Zest work with him in a supposed bargain where if it's not the relics they want, they give them to Scaglietti. While Zest and Lutecia are "experimental relic weapons", there's no indication as to whom they were created by, and the fact Zest and Agito don't like Scaglietti seems to give off the image that they hate people like Scaglietti, who experiment on living beings. This is especially evident as Agito wasn't even experimented on by the good doctor, she was experimented on by some unknown scientists.

Well, that's exactly what I said. He gives them information about the Relics' whereabouts and they go find it. If its not the one they are looking for, they give it to Scaglietti. That's why Scaglietti wants to cooperate with them, as well as why they listen to a maniac like Scaglietti, even though they hate him to death.

But in the end, we don't have the full story, so we don't know whether they were created by Scaglietti or someone else entirely. To make adamant assumptions can lead to disappointments when they turn out to not be true, so I'd only take any speculation as to origins as just that, speculation. To argue with someone else's speculation only makes sense when their speculation has a likelyhood of 0% due to being outrageous.

One thing is for sure: at first my arguments were in no way speculation. I just took what Scaglietti said in episode 6, about Zest and Lutecia being Relic weapons, and repeated it over and over. My last post, though, is my pure speculation, as Chaos asked me why I think Scaglietti created them.


Heh. Sincerely I dont know what we're discussing here anymore. It all started with me saying that they are Relic weapons, which they are... I wasnt speculating anything. Oh well, time for me to sleep, so no more coming from me.

[mechdra]

Somehting about the numbers, is Vivio a number?There is sometyhing I felt weird watching this episode is when Vivio mention about her mother. If she is an artifciailly created being, she should not have any memory about her mother but she apparently remember about her mother and she is searching for her. Will that make the numbers are originally humans but enhanced by technology to become artificial mages.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by mechdra

Somehting about the numbers, is Vivio a number?There is sometyhing I felt weird watching this episode is when Vivio mention about her mother. If she is an artifciailly created being, she should not have any memory about her mother but she apparently remember about her mother and she is searching for her. Will that make the numbers are originally humans but enhanced by technology to become artificial mages.

No, Vivio is not a number, the doctor didn't create her.

At this point, we're not sure what a Number really is.

As for her memories... Two words, "Project F"

[FlameSparkZ]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

No, Vivio is not a number, the doctor didn't create her.

At this point, we're not sure what a Number really is.

As for her memories... Two words, "Project F"

Yeah, but she seems to be a key to some mysterious purpose...

And about Relics, we still don't know what they're truly for, seeing that some of them simply exploded, taking out a whole sector around them.

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

oh yea and another side note about Vivio in this episode, since we finally got to see her up close, I noticed that she has two different eye color...one is red and the other is green...this might mean something, maybe she can see the future??

[Ottocycle]

Originally Posted by Ultima_Rasengan05

oh yea and another side note about Vivio in this episode, since we finally got to see her up close, I noticed that she has two different eye color...one is red and the other is green...this might mean something, maybe she can see the future??

I don't actually see anything coming out of that besides reinforcing the point that she has been artificially created. And besides heterochromia kind of goes way back if you look at other anime (Spike and Asuna come to mind)...

[bolduselessprediction]

Though it might be that her mechanical Linker Core(the one that powers the Numbers with that wobbly magic array) be stored in one of her eyes? Or whatever that might unlock her abilities, causing both her pupils to revert to the same colour.

With great mental trauma, no less. Maybe something to do with Nanoha?
Cue explosive power boost and the good ol' feeling of Doom.

[/bolduselessprediction]

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

I guess her two different eye color scheme is part of her design...the only anime characters that I've seen with different two different eye colors were the ones you mentioned already, Spike and Asuna...

other than that, Vivio just sees Nanoha as her tentative mother for now...she's the one she trusts the most...and maybe she'll see Erio and Caro as older siblings, since they did do babysitting duty in this episode. (I must say, good practice for Erio and Caro's future.)

[mechdra]

Vivio's eyes = Boku eyes

[Nemesis]

Originally Posted by Ultima_Rasengan05

other than that, Vivio just sees Nanoha as her tentative mother for now...she's the one she trusts the most...and maybe she'll see Erio and Caro as older siblings, since they did do babysitting duty in this episode. (I must say, good practice for Erio and Caro's future.)

And their future would be?

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

Originally Posted by Adr 00

And their future would be?

oh no, seeing that Erio and Caro are the only ones with serious relationships going on in the Nanoha world, they're gonna end up getting married and then having a kid one day....
thats what I meant about their future.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by FlameSparkZ

Yeah, but she seems to be a key to some mysterious purpose...

Well, during the first 'translation' of the prophecy, I was convince that she was to be sacrificed to bring fore something from the 'Holy Land'

But now that it's "King of the dead" ....

Originally Posted by FlameSparkZ

And about Relics, we still don't know what they're truly for, seeing that some of them simply exploded, taking out a whole sector around them.

And as far as we know, Jail doesn't seem to have any at all.

Originally Posted by Ultima_Rasengan05

Vivio just sees Nanoha as her tentative mother for now...she's the one she trusts the most...and maybe she'll see Erio and Caro as older siblings, since they did do babysitting duty in this episode. (I must say, good practice for Erio and Caro's future.)

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.

Nanoha stole Erio's credit!

Originally Posted by Adr 00

And their future would be?

I foresee a threesome.

*Tries to put on serious face*

[Erio]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

I foresee a threesome.

*Tries to put on serious face*

lol Have you forgotten about Lutecia already?


Oh yes, Chaos, now that I'm awake, I've come up with another idea. A small one, anyway.

When you said,

I see things from your point of view. But of course, this is under the assumption that "experimental Relic weapons" is a biological creation. Remember that Jail also created the gadgets.

Also remember that Jail is part of Project F. He recently has been doing gadgets and androids, but he knows everything about cloning and genetic enhancements, which may very well include Relics. For all I know (this part is speculation) Lulu and Zest could be using Relics as power sources.