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View Poll Results: Clannad - Episode 22 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 211 | 60.81% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 49 | 14.12% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 23 | 6.63% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 20 | 5.76% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 19 | 5.48% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 3 | 0.86% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 3 | 0.86% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 2 | 0.58% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 3 | 0.86% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 14 | 4.03% | |
Voters: 347. You may not vote on this poll |
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2009-04-17, 02:11 | Link #801 |
wingéd prettygirl
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@ Kaisos Erranan
I agree that the material is beautiful, and that taken solely as that the True End is a lovely one. But as you say, not enough setup. @ Justin Kim I draw your attention to these lines of my prior post: When a show requires me to go and read about the source material to gain proper understanding of what occurred, I'm sorry to say it has failed as proper entertainment. The lack of self-containment might be understandable due to the 'target audience' being game players, but as a non-game player and someone who was piecing the show together from the show alone (I specifically didn't contribute to this forum this season, due to spoilers both last season and from Air's forum during 2005), the standalone information just isn't there and I will say here that the ending makes sense within the limits of the Clannad universe, and reading around the material. I will however also say that this sense does not come through properly in the way it is presented, with the anime as the sole material. The point I am making is that you should not be required to read a forum thread of discussion or wait for a summary episode. At the end of episode 22, it clearly states 'the End' as it fades to white. It should be considered to be self-contained, and my gripe is that the True End is not part of that self-containment. Pretty and nice to see what would have happened, sure, but ultimately outside the anime experience. -Andiyar
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2009-04-17, 05:55 | Link #802 | |
Senior Member
Artist
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Orange County, California
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Another thing, I am not discussing the ending to the Clannad series here, I was putting up my post regarding everyone's previous posts about Kyou After.
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2009-04-17, 06:59 | Link #803 | |
Misuzu & Kotomi Protector
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Philippines
Age: 41
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Quote:
He's probably just implying Arc != Alternate universe. In CLANNAD game it's called alternate route (universe), in anime it became arc because it became a linear story with "bends" on the plot line. So basically, Episode 24, Tomoyo Route isn't really an arc but an alternate universe and probably Kyou as well, if that's true |
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2009-04-18, 19:13 | Link #804 | |
Senior Member
Artist
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Orange County, California
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2009-06-26, 22:42 | Link #805 |
Senior Member
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Age: 31
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Just watched the ending of Clannad, and I felt that this episode seemed to be overhyped for its own good. The whole "reset" thing that happened in this episode seemed to be really forced when I first saw it.
In other words, all of the emotional impact that I gathered up while watching the series just completely flattened after watching the reset scene. I could've accepted a different ending where Tomoya lives his life with his daughter (with Nagisa still dead), or a more darker ending (nice boat), but this ending just doesn't get to me imo. The majority of the episodes in Clannad were good. This one wasn't. Spoiler:
It's going to be hard to rate with such a hurdle of mixed opinions on this thread, but personally I would rate this episode a 4/10. |
2009-06-26, 23:46 | Link #806 | |
Alto x Ranka :)
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: New York City
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Spoiler for Nagisa/Ushio:
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2009-06-27, 10:04 | Link #807 | |
Senior Member
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Age: 31
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Ushio and the Robot cameo at the beginning of each episode didn't really enhance my enjoyment of this series either. edit: If Nagish and Ushio weren't revived, how did they come back to life? That's like saying people were revived by the Dragonballs in Dragonball Z weren't actually revived because they were already living in some other place before they were sent back to the earth. |
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2009-06-27, 13:29 | Link #808 | |
Misuzu & Kotomi Protector
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Philippines
Age: 41
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Quote:
------\------- Tragic End -------\------ Happy End As to how that happened? Let yourself find out the answer but I can say that the ultimate clues are on Episode 16. Thoughts travel through time and space, strong desire can bend reality, making an alternate world. Let me also add that the two world (universe), the tragic world and the world full of hopes (three if you include the Illusionary World) aren't the only parallel world in CLANNAD. Proof is Episode 24 CLANNAD 1st Season, TomoyoxTomoya Route and Episode 24 of AFTER STORY KyouxTomoya Route, even the worlds that is set in the game are different worlds and even the worlds made by people's thought (Fanfic if you ask my opinion) are still considered as alternate worlds. Here's a question, what's the point of reading the sad story when there's a happy story? No need to answer but don't assume that everyone will have the same answer as you. As for Dragon Ball, it functions a "Single Universe", the people are brought back like Undead Zombies through the power of the Balls. If you're talking about an alternate universe of Dragon Ball, then you're talking about a different universe and not just dimensions in that universe. Probably a Universe that has a totally different setting. Why do you think there's only a single individual there? I would like to touch and add something from Gurren Lagan's Episode 26 Spoiler for Probably a Major Spoiler:
Last edited by dgreater1; 2009-06-27 at 13:40. |
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2009-06-27, 14:33 | Link #809 | |
Senior Member
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Age: 31
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Quote:
You're trying to force that 10/10 out of me aren't you? |
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2009-06-27, 19:19 | Link #810 | |||
Alto x Ranka :)
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: New York City
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An alternate universe is exactly that, moments happening in separate worlds. We were shown alternate worlds where we had the worst outcome and in the end we were left with the best outcome. Even Fuko was affected by it considering that I recall her older sister Kouko claiming that Fuko's condition was getting worse and as far as we know, she probably never awoke from her coma in the universe that we saw for the majority of the time (which is the world with the worst outcome.) I couldn't have said it better than dgreater1(also from episode 16): Quote:
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The biggest problem I see here is that we're watching the series through subtitles (at least most of us that don't understand Japanese completely) but there are a lot of things we miss out because of translation and only because of the language barrier. Now I'm not saying that all people that understand Japanese enjoyed the series more or were more comprehensive about the plot but there are things lost in translation. Some people watch a series in a general point of view rather than look for the deeper meaning behind certain plot points (which is fine all on it's own) but I feel that if someone wants to review a series, it's better to try and understand the entirety of the plot before expressing how one feels. Remember that this is a public forum and that anything you post on here is subject for discussion (which is what I'm currently doing.) About what you said in your last post, it seems that you wanted something more generic but that isn't Clannad Without all the alternate worlds, Clannad simply put, just isn't Clannad. Making it more simplistic would take away from the core of the series (aside from the family theme which was simple to comprehend.)
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2009-06-27, 20:07 | Link #811 |
On a mission
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I dunno. You really can't have Clannad with all that magical stuff happening. Doing so would invalidate quite a few things in the story. I just wouldn't look too deep in it. From someone who watched the anime and never played the games, it seemed pretty simple. The trippy alternate world breaks, releasing the light thingys and wishes are granted so we go back in time.
But while I love the series and this episode actually, I will admit that it was somewhat predictable. Honestly, I could never really view this series as a tragedy. One huge reason is that they didn't change the ED during these episodes, it's still the same upbeat one. Does it really negate the emotional impact? Well, for me no. If had been like DBZ where this happens as frequently as lunch, then it'd be a diffrent story. Clannad to me seemed to always be a fairy tale rather than a tragedy. It just seemed that a happy ending matched the tone of the overall story, and it's by and large an extremely optimistic series. I find it hilarious to see Mai-Hime brought up in this discussion because Spoiler:
But I could understand why many people would hate this ending if they were looking for something else. We wonder what the heck we were doing the last few episodes. Not to mention that episode 14-16 were so ridiclously fast paced. Wham! Nagisa's dead! Wham! She's suddenly alive again. Wtf? And honestly, this is one thing I respect about Air, which is succeeds far more in the tragedy department, though it also errs in other ways. But often times fiction is an escapist thing, and stuff we would wish happen but can't in real life can happen here. So yes, I may be able to appreciate the theme of "family" even though I know that I can just resurrect them. Life is unfair, let's just get away from that for a second so we can stop moping about it. Last edited by Archon_Wing; 2009-06-27 at 20:58. |
2009-06-28, 05:30 | Link #812 |
Misuzu & Kotomi Protector
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Philippines
Age: 41
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I'll let you decide for yourself
If you think it's true, the universe will branch but if you think it's not true, the universe will still branch. It's a branch between your beliefs Okay, ignore my weird comments. |
2009-07-09, 18:41 | Link #813 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Btw. how is this done in the game? I guess something like a good and a bad ending - depending on certain things you did?
Regarding everything else, as I want to go sure I just put everything into Spoiler tags, as most part of it is a spoiler for those who haven't watched it yet - though it would surprise me to find someone who hasn't in an episode 22 discussion thread (but just to go sure) Btw. I hope my sentences make sense as I used some pretty long ones and English isn't my mother language. Spoiler:
Oh btw. the multiple universe theory is pretty "common" actually (of course it isn't proven) and actually one of the few possiblities I think that could be true. That is because, if time travels do indeed exist (which I am not completely sure, isn't proven either but at least there is no counter-proof), it would leed to various paradoxes (I hope that is the english plural for paradox). For instance, if you travel in time to do something. However, whatever you did had an impact on the world and therefore would never have required you to travel in time to do anything. Therefore you wouldn't have traveled in time to begin with but if you didn't, you never changed it... This could be explained by the multiple universe theory. Whatever got changed created a new universe but the old one still exists and therefore there in that one there was still the need to change something. Last edited by ghost_zero5; 2009-07-09 at 19:48. |
2009-07-09, 21:55 | Link #814 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Kay so, I finally just finished After Story, and I love it to pieces. <3
I think the ending was a little confusing, but I dunno, it doesn't matter much to me. I was caught up in the emotion, and the Tomoya x Nagisa cuteness. XD But, the scene where Tomoya Spoiler for minor spoilers about later in the episode:
But, I wish we would have gotten to see more of Tomoya, Nagisa and Ushio as a family! D: |
2009-07-09, 22:05 | Link #815 | |
Alto x Ranka :)
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: New York City
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2009-07-10, 03:54 | Link #817 |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 46
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Very unlikely. But a nice idea.
I sort of wanted to see a generational show with teenaged Ushio either as one of the harem girls or the new harem lead with Nagisa and Tomoya as her parents having to deal with the boy(s) that come by. Also Sanae and Akio still being around for extra fun. Kyou can still be a teacher, just at the high school. Tomoyo can be a government official or something. Sunohara is a Taxi driver. Fuuko is sort of Ushio's weird adopted older sister/aunt. Ryou is a nurse. And Kotomi is missing in America still. Most of the old cast would be cameo parts at best. The plot would be typical Key I imagine. If it is from the boy's point of view, Ushio is the end girl, but you have about three other girls at the school that you could end up with, plus teacher Kyou. If it is from Ushio's point of view, the story will be more about friendship or something with three guys after her or her friends. Kyou gets to be her club advisor. Ushio's club is looking for aliens, time travelers, and espers...she's already found the sliders....
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2009-07-10, 06:01 | Link #818 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
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OK. Very unlikely and not a bit unlikely.
But an OVA would showing the Okazaki family a bit more would be more likely though - it might even explain the ending a bit more In any case we will have to wait anyway Regarding Fuko: I think she is the person that fits in the least in After Story (especially, since no one remembers her) but it is still nice to see that she finally woke up. Quote:
Also it doesn't fit her character, nor are the parents like that - at best Tomoya could be Kyon but definitely not Haruhi However, maybe she was influenced by Fuko Btw.: I think After Story was way better than Clannad (season 1). Of course, you need Clannad (season 1) for character introduction and such things. Actually, for me it is more like Clannad (season 1) is the introduction - especially character introduction - and After Story is the real story (so After Story as title doesn't make much sense to me ). |
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2009-07-10, 13:31 | Link #819 | |
Alto x Ranka :)
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: New York City
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Then create an alternate universe... As for what I put in bold, I guess the trolling got to you huh?
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