2009-12-01, 12:05 | Link #4801 | |||
cho~ kakkoii
Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: 3rd Planet
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We have established the time and circumstance. And now the place. The place is the same area the shooting happened earlier. The place has also seen one of the worst terrorist attack ever. The vehicle was suspicious which just struck a police car and then continued on and struck another. I can see what might have lead them to make the decision to fire on that vehicle. Everything else is after the fact, about 6-8 hours later. At that moment of time when all those things were transpiring simultaneously, had those officers to make such a decision to take the life of another human being, and it was made less than split second. Time, place, and circumstances. Quote:
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2009-12-01, 13:38 | Link #4803 | |
Aria Company
Join Date: Nov 2003
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2009-12-01, 14:20 | Link #4804 | |
Asuki-tan Kairin ↓
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Fürth (GER)
Age: 43
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2009-12-02, 02:18 | Link #4805 | |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Personally, I wouldn't have voted for the ban... but vox populi, vox dei. Even our dear rulers, in representative democracy, have the exact same legitimacy as this ban: that of the vote. And if it's a mistake, well, it's their mistake to make. |
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2009-12-02, 06:57 | Link #4807 | |
Impostor Cutie
Join Date: Oct 2009
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Since 2002 there's propaganda campaign underway in support of US war in Iraq / Afghanistan. This campaign covers Europe too. Integral part of all such campaigns is creation of a "concept of the enemy", and guess who is the enemy this time... The ban decision is a kind of "side-effect" of this campaign. Blame not the population, but those controlling the media.
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2009-12-02, 07:12 | Link #4808 | |
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 35
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Besides, the officer is already drawing his gun but he isn't going to fire it yet, he only shot when that guy reached into his waist. The "at least twice" means that he fired around 4-5 rounds on quicktime rather than empty the entire magazine into that guy.
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2009-12-02, 13:51 | Link #4809 | ||
Asuki-tan Kairin ↓
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Fürth (GER)
Age: 43
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2009-12-02, 14:02 | Link #4810 | |
Not Enough Sleep
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 48
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2009-12-02, 14:22 | Link #4811 |
Aria Company
Join Date: Nov 2003
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It's not the way these things should be handled. Police officers who go around shooting suspects tend to be bad for judicial process. Plus I think Jinto was talking about another case where an innocent man was shot by police, though I could be wrong there.
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2009-12-02, 14:27 | Link #4813 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: PMB Headquarters
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Japan welcomes new U.S. policy on Afghanistan, but denies more aid
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2009-12-02, 14:36 | Link #4814 |
Aria Company
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Huh? I'm not sure what you mean there. Are you saying that if a police officer shoots someone who's innocent he, the police officer, should be put to death, or are you claiming the if a police officer shoots someone, the person deserved to die no matter what? Or something else? I'd argue against either of those positions though.
In the former, while the officer is clearly responsible and should lose his job and face jail time, the death penalty is too severe for it. I'd say manslaughter charges would be more appropriate. In the latter, just because someone's a cop does not mean they're Judge Dredd. There's a judicial process for a reason. The cop on the street does not get to decide whether someone's guilty. Of course there are situations where lethal force is required.
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2009-12-02, 14:38 | Link #4815 | |
Emotionless White Face
Join Date: Feb 2008
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*I* still prefer the swiss' system that allows the people to vote, than having a government choosing for me for a lot of things while showing me the finger. I hate to see that in France we didn't have the right to vote about the new concept of europe. We said No to the european's constitution once, so Sarkozy didn't allow us to vote again. If that's not a dictatorship and imo that's way more serious than a minaret story but apparently no one care while all over europe from what i've heard, almost all "people survey/referendum" were against this europe, but most governments did the same as sarkozy. No vote, or by using a "parliamentary" referendum. Or you can do like the Irish, to not listen to the people by doing a new referendum every 6 months/year till it passes ... Yeah sure. And about the tyranny of the majority, beside the "basic right" problem, that's how democracy works. You can't please everyone when the people vote. Or as said ealier here on animesuki, we should not have elected Sarkozy as president because near 50% of people didn't vote for him. That's good to criticize the current systems and use the tyranny of majority, but then people should give their plan about a better system that works and doesn't block an entire country because 100% of people that agree on something never happens Last edited by Narona; 2009-12-02 at 14:49. |
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2009-12-02, 14:50 | Link #4816 |
廉頗
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 34
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The 'solution' to the tyranny of majority presented in direct democracy is representative democracy. In my eyes, neither are all that good, but I don't at this time have a viable alternative to offer, so it might be a lesser-of-two-evils thing (direct or representative democracy over all the others).
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2009-12-02, 15:17 | Link #4817 |
Disabled By Request
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See, that's why cops think they can get away with killing an innocent person. The worst that can happen to them is they lose their job and go to jail for a certain amount of time. I don't agree with this because cops tend to think that because of their position as law enforcers, they are above the law. That can change from country to country, but nonetheless, it doesn't give them a license to kill. Would the family of the person who died be happy if the killer was set free after doing time? Would you? I know I wouldn't. The killer needs to know what it's like to be on the receiving end of the bullet, in which case, a life sentence doesn't cut it either. That being said, the death sentence is, imho, appropriate.
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2009-12-02, 17:27 | Link #4818 | ||||
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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You see, I believe in democracy. And the corollary of that is that I hold everyone responsible for his or her vote. Of course, it doesn't mean I think Joe Six-Pack the Plumber is particularly wise. Frankly, between plain idiocy, widespread apathy, and time constraints making it impossible to study issues properly, it's a miracle we haven't voted ourselves off a cliff yet. I just believe that if someone's going to exert tyranny, I'd rather it'd be the majority than some select minority decided on shady criteria, which is pretty much the only alternative, from what I can tell. Quote:
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Policemen do a hard job. They try to keep the peace, only to be assaulted by thugs. And then, a significant part of the population takes the side of the thugs. Paints them as the victims. |
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2009-12-02, 17:34 | Link #4819 | |
Disabled By Request
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Being a cop doesn't mean the cop has a license to kill. They also have to respect the laws and set an example for the people who're being made to follow them. If cops don't do it, then who will? EDIT: you don't have to tell me that there's a chance the newspapers changed the story to maybe hide the fact that the kid was assaulting the cop. That's definitely not true because police brutality is common in Greece. All my friends from there can back me up on this too. |
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2009-12-02, 17:39 | Link #4820 | |
Emotionless White Face
Join Date: Feb 2008
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There is a growing feeling among people about "not trusting the policemen" here in France for example. Sure some do mistakes and given their job, when they do, it can take enormous proportion, but they are just humans, and not all of them are corrupted. And sometimes, people throw rocks at them for no reason than being policemen, or take the defense of thugs for no good reason. |
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current affairs, discussion, international |
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