2013-01-26, 17:21 | Link #11821 | |||||||||||
The Mage of Four Hearts
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Age: 33
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As for the rest of the post, you have a few things mixed up. Why would Medaka, who has spent her life being an existence apart from human beings, find Kumagawa's thoughts on the matter being unsatisfactory. It should be the opposite, in fact, yet it's not. Why, because Medaka even then loved people. Quote:
As for why she has such an amazing love in her, perhaps you missed it, but the manga did mention this hereditary triat of the Kurokami family. Quote:
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I don't recall calling you an evil mastermind. That's really going a bit far. You just have a bad habit at doing that sort of stuff to justify your opinion, that's all. Quote:
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2013-01-26, 17:33 | Link #11822 | |||
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2013-01-26, 17:49 | Link #11823 | |||
The Mage of Four Hearts
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2013-01-26, 18:03 | Link #11824 | ||||||||||
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He just said "Humans have no goal/purpose". Medaka, who was an impressionable child at the time and ripe age of 3, simply dismissed the fact that once again, she couldn't get a goal to strive towards. Do remember, that's what she wanted as a kid. She was looking for a goal. Even hoping doctors could give it to her. Quote:
How does she like fightning her enemies mean that when she was 3 yeard old, she was already hopelessly in-love with humanity? Where's the connection? Quote:
Not an inherent love of all humans. Medaka's genetic trait did eventually aid the construction of her love for humans, though, that much is clear. Because when Zenkichi told her of her purpose, and she went on to fufill it, she grew to love the people she was around. Your theory that she was unconditionally in love with humans at age 3 just isn't as likely. Remember that she even proposed to a single human, Zenkichi? When her love for all of humanity abstained her from seeking the wiles of Akune? That was after her experiences in helping people. Quote:
Bad/unlikeable character development is often worse than a stagnant character. At least for me. Quote:
This is pointless. ... The point of a subjective debate is understanding, not proving. I'm explaining my reasoning to you so you could understand it. But it's clear that you see that as some sort of objective attack to your reasoning. Please, stop that. Quote:
That's basically what I use as a form of observation. Most people have stated a dislike for the character. Just like many people have done the opposite. Then again, that's just their personal opinion. Quote:
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Well, that's what I'm lead to believe when you think all of my personal opinions are objective attacks to your's.
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2013-01-26, 18:39 | Link #11825 | ||||||||||||
The Mage of Four Hearts
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As for your Zenkichi example, when she proposed to him, she hadn't started helping people yet. As for Akune, at that point her ambition had already become distorted anyway. Quote:
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2013-01-26, 18:49 | Link #11826 | |||
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2013-01-26, 20:18 | Link #11827 | |||
The Mage of Four Hearts
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2013-01-26, 20:35 | Link #11828 | ||
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2013-01-26, 20:52 | Link #11829 | ||
The Mage of Four Hearts
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2013-01-26, 21:09 | Link #11830 | ||||||||||||
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You're saying that Medaka was hopelessly in-love with humanity at age 3, and that's why she followed Zenkichi's mission for her. When the simpler and more probable explanation would be that she was simply looking for her purpose in life, you know, as an impressionable child that she was. She was so naive that she even proposed to Zenkichi. Quote:
Being detached from humanity dosen't mean you can't have or crave purpose in life. She specifically said that she wanted something to live for, and was desperate for a reason to continue her life, a purpose. Part of that desperation is because she was detached from humankind. Actually fits in neatly when you think about, hehe. You're especially going to question your purpose in life if you're a monster compared to your peers. Zenkichi gave her a finite purpose; "Help others". Something that she did and just ended up alienating her even more. So, obviously, when Kumagawa is all like "Hey, chill. There is no purpose whatsoever". She's not gonna run with it. I don't know about you, but I'm pretty much banking on this being what Nishio intended. Just an honest opinion. No. It dosen't. Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unrequited_love This also dosen't indicate, at all, for either side, that she was or was not uncontrollably in-love with humanity at that age(3). So the rest of the point, I'll consider moot. Quote:
Remember, you're arguing that she loved all of humanity, to the point that she does now, right off the bat. So that you can claim that she only took Zenkichi's suggestion because she was uncontrollably in-love with humanity at age 3. But, that just isn't as likely as my theory. Not to say that your's is inconpreheensible, just not nearly as likely. Quote:
Because her love for people spawned from her interaction with humanity. Which spawned form her goal. Which spawned from her interaction with Zenkichi. Hence, why she was willing to fully give herself to Zenkichi at that time. Quote:
You're the one who thinks I've been treating subjective opinions as facts. Seriously, I pretty much stated that this is all my opinion. Quote:
So you admit that I'm not really stating my opinion is fact, you just believe I'm saying that in-between-the-lines, correct? Bear with me, this is important. Quote:
Since, out of the blue, you start going on about how I'm trying to pass off my opinion as fact. Quote:
I mean, such things don't happen with a guy like Misogi. He's loved by 99% of the people I meet(including me). Quote:
Yes, clearly so. My bad. Refer to one of the above points or Lupus's posts. Quote:
They go hand-in-hand, and could explain why you're acting so defensively. Quote:
For instance Medaka was excited for a purpose to be given to her by her doctors. She was clearly impressionable and looking for one. Someone telling her that there is none probably wouldn't sit very well. You could even argue that such was bolstered by her disconnection with humanity. Quote:
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2013-01-26, 21:24 | Link #11831 |
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Join Date: May 2012
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Just for the purposes of illustration, I hope everyone forgives the double post, but take a look at this:
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As you can see, Medaka did, indeed, consider not having a reason to live as a credible option, because it made her feel better. Only, when she was given an actual finite goal, that made her feel even better. So yeah, this definitely does not seem like the Kurokami which was hopelessly in-love with humanity at age 2. She was just a kid trying to feel better. Notice how she became "her" after Zenkichi gave her a goal.
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2013-01-26, 22:51 | Link #11833 | |||||||||||||
The Mage of Four Hearts
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2013-01-26, 23:02 | Link #11834 | |||||
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2013-01-26, 23:19 | Link #11835 | ||||
The Mage of Four Hearts
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I kind of agree here, as I've found Medaka fans on GameFAQs and myanimelist. Besides, one should look at the character polls held by Shonen Jump. It's still possible that support for her differs by age or nationality.[/QUOTE] Exactly, Medaka fans can be found in many places, it's just that unlike haters, they don't usually make a spectacle of themselves. As for differences in nationality, I hear this come up a lot whenever Japanese fans like stuff that some American fans don't. At times likes that, I'm reminded of Serial Experiments Lain. To cut a long story short, that show was written so that Japanese and Western viewers would differing views, but both sides had the same reaction. We really aren't all that different than them.
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2013-01-26, 23:36 | Link #11836 | |||
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Is satisfying what you mean by "real"? Okay, then. Quote:
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2013-01-26, 23:53 | Link #11837 | |||
The Mage of Four Hearts
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2013-01-27, 02:54 | Link #11838 |
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All this talk about whether Medaka is a horrible character or not... Aren't you guys making it way more complicated than it should be?
As long as we're talking about what each of us believe to be "the majority"... Then, "the majority" of Medaka's most vocal haters also seem to be vocal Zenkichi fans, ergo... Except for a rare few instances, Medaka always "tops" Zenkichi, taking away his spotlight, trivializing his accomplishments, and relegating him to the status of her sidekick or, in Zenkichi's own words, her "faithful pitbull." To add insult to injury, Zenkichi's life pretty much revolves around Medaka, but Medaka's life does NOT revolve around Zenkichi. She does not treat your hero, the guy you're projecting on to and rooting for, with the deference, respect and appreciation you feel he deserves. Therefore, you hate her. Every "negative" of hers is magnified in your mind. Character development and positive traits are easily dismissed. And you're as vocal about dissing her as you are about defending Zenkichi's honor or praising his accomplishments. Which is fine, I guess. Loud people will be loud. And Zenkichi does seem to attract the more vocal fans. But let's be honest here. For "the majority" of you, you hate her because she's taking up what you feel is Zenkichi's rightful place. That's the fundamental cause. The rest is just rationalization and confirmation bias. And IN NO WAY am I insinuating or trying to pass off my "observations" as "objective fact." Last edited by telamont; 2013-01-27 at 03:17. |
2013-01-27, 03:13 | Link #11839 |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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I dislike her because she does that to every character, not just Zenkichi.
The minute she disappears or drops out of focus for an extended period of time, the other cast members are actually able to do things and the manga's quality skyrockets. Just look at the Treasure Hunt. |
2013-01-27, 03:47 | Link #11840 | |
Romance Expert
Join Date: Feb 2012
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sure she says now "I want" but she still doesnt seem to have taken in much of what others have said to her, as evident in the latest chapter. also, I just dont believe she deserves zenkichi. and zenkichi shouldnt be with her, for his own benefit. its more that she abused him and isnt healthy for him rather than stealing his spotlight that makes me dislike her. |
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action, comedy, harem, nishio, romance, shounen, student council |
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