Character Discussion - Lelouch

[KrimzonStriker]

Okay, okay, enough about the executives and studios of Sunrise already, shssh >_>

[kir44n]

You make it soundlike Taniguchi will control whether or not Sunrise will continue this project. I will say that Sunrise has used different directors than the ones in the TV series as the ones in the movies/ova's. Taniguchi could be gutted and replaced. It's Sunrise's ball, not his.

And the ball? It's lelouch. The man whom the world bounces around.

[lovecakecookies]

SO basically it all comes down to if Sales and if demand is high enough...

they will revive Lulu? well maybe that's why they made it ambiguous.. I guess..

which brings me back to my original question,

if there is no Spin off, will some of you then believe he is dead then?

I heard Sunrise does own the show rights...right?

[Vakir]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

Okay, okay, enough about the executives and studios of Sunrise already, shssh >_>

I'm just being honest. It's not some kind of horrible conspiracy on my part to take apart the establishment of the show piece by piece and talk about how HORRIBLE everything is. I'm not out to get you, despite popular belief. I'm saying, given what's possible, yes, Sunrise would probably make it a franchise, and yes, Lelouch would probably get some kind of resurrection or equal levels of lame/fail. This is very much on topic. >_>

if there is no Spin off, will some of you then believe he is dead then?

Anyone who wouldn't believe it at that point would be kind of wasting their time. If it's canon, it's canon. If it's not, it's not. That's why I don't take a position on him being alive, I just look at what's actually there in the episode. I do feel a spinoff is on the horizon because it's just too lucrative not to do it, even if the ending, in my opinion, closed out everything that needed to be closed, save maybe a few things about Geass that really wouldn't progress the characters so much as they'd just offer exposition.

[Theron]

They can even go back to it in a few years. Who knows...

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

Okay, okay, enough about the executives and studios of Sunrise already, shssh >_>

But they hold the POWER! The overwhelmong power!

[Narona]

Originally Posted by lovecakecookies

SO basically it all comes down to if Sales and if demand is high enough...

they will revive Lulu? well maybe that's why they made it ambiguous.. I guess..

which brings me back to my original question,

if there is no Spin off, will some of you then believe he is dead then?

I heard Sunrise does own the show rights...right?

That's true that Taniguchi is not the kind of director who would want to do an oav or a movie

But people can't compare CG with the rest of his works.

I mean, CG and Lelouch are ultra popular in japan. Nothing to do I guess with his past work.

[KrimzonStriker]

I know I know Vakir, but I'm not inclined to get out of the story itself to be honest and talk about franchise advertisement, takes the mood away I guess since I quite like talking about Lelouch's character itself personally

[Vakir]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

I know I know Vakir, but I'm not inclined to get out of the story itself to be honest and talk about franchise advertisement, takes the mood away I guess since I quite like talking about Lelouch's character itself personally

"I think Lelouch is a pretty cool guy, eh destroys and creates worlds and doesn't afraid of anything?"

Seriously, though. What is there to say about him to progress the thread? I'll give it a shot. I like him way more in R2 compared to season 1 despite that season 1 was planned better. He grew a spine and started making things more about the world than himself. Before that, I had the impression he was a mostly selfish punk. "Euphie, the SAZ will never work...but that two sentences of convincing that Nunnally liked it is totally enough to sway me. Yeah, this isn't all about Nunnally AT ALL."

While I wasn't as affected as I could've been by the ending if it hadn't been similarly used in the Dark Knight a few months previous, I feel Lelouch was done justice in the end.

[Sol Falling]

Rising Dragon, Narona. It seems my aggressiveness has made you uncomfortable, to the extent that you consider my presence a bad thing. I did give hints I was like this when you friended me, however, so don't be too surprised. :P

Originally Posted by Vakir

Whiskers crap? Can't call someone out on something I didn't see.

Spoiler for original resolution:

This is what Krimzon was referring to. There is clearly a (fairly lazily drawn) white patch over the lower area. I didn't realize this was the 'mask' people were referring to until reading this thread, but the presence of a mouth clearly indicates that it's meant to be facial hair. Interestingly enough, when I bring up both facts, I get the response "it's not detailed enough to see anything".

As for the 'shadow-hair' you've been discussing. I personally haven't managed to catch the texture on it you've mentioned (as such, you're welcome to screenshot), and, as you've pointed out, its placement would correspond realistically to the hats shadow. You're point about the obscurity and unnecessity of this detail is convincing, however. I remain undecided. Nevertheless, as far as discussion goes, the evidence I outlined above insists that the driver could be Lelouch only if he were wearing a mask.

Moving on:

Originally Posted by kir44n

Come on now Lovecakecookies? More facts to his death than life?

This guy's funny.

1) Most major characters in Code Geass have "died" at least once. (including Nunally, Cornelia, Guilford, Orange, Sayoko, Marianne, Charles (okay, only for about a minute), C.C., Suzaku, Oughi, Villeta). On screen death has not yet been really the most definitive proof in this show. The only times we have been proven for the death is when we have actually seen : The character getting buried. This would cover A) Shirley & B) Rolo.

You've got a pretty wide range on 'major characters'. In terms of 'majority', Cornelia, Guilford, Oughi, Viletta, Jeremiah, and Sayoko are all =< Gino, Anya, Xingke, Toudou, Kaguya, none of whom have had deaths. Furthermore, Sayoko's never actually had a death scene, so she actually belongs on the other side. We also know Jeremiah was a joke case. Similarly, Marianne, Charles, and Nunally <= Schniezel, who again has never appeared dead. Finally, C.C. and Suzaku are generally grouped with Kallen and Lelouch as the main characters, and here again we have an exception in Kallen. Simply put: although the hypothesis "most major character's have appeared dead in Code Geass" isn't even relevant to Lelouch's death or survival, it's not even true.

As for definitive deaths in the series without burials (cutting out fodder to keep this short): we've got Clovis, Kewell, Mao, Euphemia, Darlton, Urabe, GaoHu, , Kirahara, Bartley, V.V., Asahina, Lord Bradley, Charles, Marianne, Bismarck, Diethard. As you can see, burial is clearly not necessary.

If you're actually interested in placing Lelouch's death in the context of the series, however, we've got Euphemia, Shirley, V.V., and Rolo. Their deaths each involved: dark eyebags resulting from bloodloss; meaningful character dialogue; flashbacks; slumping over as their eyes closed. Furthermore, aside from Lelouch's, these are the only deaths to feature these things: at least it is certain none of the fake ones were even close.

2) This is sunrise. I will point out

Spoiler for Gundam Wing:

Zechs Marquis

and

Spoiler for Gundam Seed:

Mu La Flaga

.

Irrelevant anime by others directors are irrelevant.

3) We have as-of-yet unresolved threads in regards to the Geass plot, and Lelouch's promise to C.C.

Lelouch's promise to C.C. was to make her smile. As for as-of-yet unresolved Geass plot threads, that's irrelevant 'cause this is the end of the series.

[QUOTE]These are the major facts we have for Lelouch's living. For his death we have :

1) Zomg, he was stabbed lolcats! Through the void that should be his heart but he deserved to die so he's dead! -okay, this may be a bit extreme, but to this I come to point 1) above

More like, stabbed without a Code, and then left to bleed for five minutes. Referring to 'point 1) above'...have you got any survivals under similar conditions?

2)He was bleeding so much! And Nunnally had super-awesome touchy feely moment! It'd take away from the emotional impact if he lived! - True enough. But C.C. bleed when shot through the face. And we've had emotional impact from death before too. Just because they pull the rug out later doesn't deny the emotional impact. In this show, half the time the emotional impact is just to leave you unbalanced so they can blindside you later -_-

Evidence, please. Why are you grouping different arguments together, and then refuting only one? Anyways, 'emotional impact' is subjective. People could have been touched by Lelouch's death, they could not have been. What is objective, however, is that Lelouch had personally meaningful dialogue, flashbacks, and closure. Please give even one example of having the rug being pulled out from under these in the past.

3) But people would see if he stood up and lived! Too many people around! - To this, I'll bring up Orange did order a retreat, which probably included picking up Lelouch's body, but leaving nunally where she was to be rescued by Cornelia & blind-gunman.

Anything to back up that 'probably'? You think Nunally'd be willing to let go in that kind of situation? You think Lelouch'd be willing to let Jeremiah force her? Lelouch set up his death to be next to her for a reason.

So I still will give the death-folks 50% to 50% to be fair. But you can't expect any higher based on the "facts" supporting his death at this point

So long as we're throwing around meaningless statistics, I'll have to offer my 99:1.

[Spring_sakura111]

Lelouch has died. Lelouch has risen.

[Droplet]

The Cowboy is the power of immortality, which Vicious has. The captain of the ship, Jet, has the Cowboy. He transferred the Cowboy to Spike while strangling him in episode 21. Spike wanted this, and he deliberately told Faye not to interfere.

However, the Cowboy does not activate unless the reciever dies first. This is shown when the pirate kills Vicious after transferring the Cowboy to her. Jet's Cowboy activated when he shot himself. Here is one of the big misconceptions that most people have: The transfer of the Cowboy does not involve the death of the transferrer. The pirate was crazy and killed herself after she transferred her Cowboy. Ed was injured from the battle and died. So basically, after episode 21, Spike had Jet's Cowboy (inactivated) and Vicious' contracted Bebop.

When Spike got stabbed by Faye at the end, his cowboy was activated. What supports this is that Ein got Spike's memories when he touched him, just like Spike did when he touched Vicious back in Io. The only way this could have happened is his Cowboy activating. This pretty much confirms he has the Cowboy.

Unlike Vicious, and Jet, who lost their Bebops because the people who contracted them died, Spike didn't obtain Vicious' Cowboy and thus kept his Bebop, while having the Cowboy (which he obtained from Jet at the same time)

Spike, therefore has achieved COWBOY BEBOP.

[Narona]

I will stay stuck to my opinion that the gods saved/resurrected him XD

For the reason I exposed before + what lelouch said:

Hey, suzaku. Don't you think that wishes are the same as geass? Things that you can't accomplish with your own powers, you ask for assistance of others. Yes, I shall gamble on the geass know as people's wishes... ... for the sake of the world's future.

Then we can see c.c. who was praying. And I guess she was wishing that lelouch would not disappear.

It's far fetched but i hope that the gods heard her XD

[lovecakecookies]

Originally Posted by Narona

I will stay stuck to my opinion that the gods saved/resurrected him XD

For the reason I exposed before + what lelouch said:

Hey, suzaku. Don't you think that wishes are the same as geass? Things that you can't accomplish with your own powers, you ask for assistance of others. Yes, I shall gamble on the geass know as people's wishes... ... for the sake of the world's future.

Then we can see c.c. who was praying. And I guess she was wishing that lelouch would not disappear.

It's far fetched but i hope that the gods heard her XD

So you don't think he is immortal? tell me more..

I like your theory..

I wish I could believe it though..

[Narona]

Originally Posted by lovecakecookies

So you don't think he is immortal? tell me more..

I like your theory..

I wish I could believe it though..

No, just that the god resurrected him because of the geass he put on them (I desire tomorrow/a future). If lelouch dies he can't have a tomorrow

IMO, c.c. who was praying the gods is just a hint to remind us that the gods are powerful and part of the story

[Ruvixur]

Originally Posted by Narona

No, just that the god resurrected him because of the geass he put on them (I desire tomorrow/a future). If lelouch dies he can't have a tomorrow

IMO, c.c. who was praying the gods is just a hint to remind us that the gods are powerful and part of the story

Man, we think the same. WEll, almost. I think that God is keeping Lelouch in that place, where Charles and Marianne died. To make sure tomorrow will always come, but also to have control on Lelouch. So Lelouch is stuck between Heaven and Earth, lol.

[Droplet]

Immortality is tragic. But when you can be immortal with an immortal C.C., is it still the case?

[Aceywacey]

It's a wonder why Lelouche didn't do this with this power:

http://acesan.wordpress.com/2008/10/05/figma-props/

[Droplet]

Originally Posted by Narona

I will stay stuck to my opinion that the gods saved/resurrected him XD

For the reason I exposed before + what lelouch said:

Hey, suzaku. Don't you think that wishes are the same as geass? Things that you can't accomplish with your own powers, you ask for assistance of others. Yes, I shall gamble on the geass know as people's wishes... ... for the sake of the world's future.

Then we can see c.c. who was praying. And I guess she was wishing that lelouch would not disappear.

It's far fetched but i hope that the gods heard her XD

Lol, the fact that Lelouch freaking geassed the Gods is so outrageous that it's not all unusual to find out that he's alive in the end.

[dr_patz]

Is this fake?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcBs-HoECiI

[Strygwyr]

Pretty much yea.........it was edited.