(L) Monogatari Series Light Novel discussion

[LotionExplosion]

Originally Posted by omimon

Spoiler:

Araragi and Tsukihi starts talking about love and but then Tsukihi starts stripping, Araragi starts touching her breast and licking her feet. You know, fun stuff.

AWESOME! Damn, If I can only read Japanese, I would die Happy.

EDIT: Why isn't that being translated now

[Shikijin]

Originally Posted by LotionExplosion

AWESOME! Damn, If I can only read Japanese, I would die Happy.

EDIT: Why isn't that being translated now

Because the only active translators are busy with Kizumonogatari, I guess

Btw, I was thinking about it... (no, I'm not talking about translating neko )

Personally I am self-taught on Japanese. I just thought of a simple trick: you get the text in an electronic format, and then you check each word simply with a click. This is a lot faster than checking words on a dictionary (find radical + count strokes), though it will still take a lot of time. If you can skip learning kanji then you can just learn the grammar and you can start practicing immediately. The idea is that learning how to translate a written language takes less time than learning how to speak, read and write in it, because you focus on a smaller task. Over time though you will even start to get the subtleties of fansubs. You need to start translating first because that way you can see if your idea of the original text's meaning makes sense, after some chapters though when you think you've got the gist of Japanese you can start reading directly.

What I was thinking is that I could try to write a guide on how to translate Japanese. I am just self-taught, but I managed to learn more than what you can find on free sites. I was picturing this grand plan of training people on how to translate Bakemonogatari to save me work. The only point is that translating something takes more time than one could possibly imagine, and this even if one doesn't even need to check words on a dictionary. It takes a lot of dedication. Learning a language is not easy, and it's not something you can do in just a month. If you think you will still be watching anime five years from now, then learning a bit of Japanese may be a handy hobby though.

[karice67]

^
I'm self-taught too, and quite frankly, I can't agree with focusing on just the reading side. And I definitely don't recommend trying to translate unless you're already very good at both languages. Unless you're really die-hard about what you're trying to translate, you'll only get frustrated.

Reading really isn't enough. All four skills (reading, writing, listening, speaking) will help you learn, but the real key is INPUT: read and listen to as much material as you can. Related material if you can help it (e.g. try watching anime with Japanese closed captions, reading manga in Japanese and watching their anime adaptations etc). The main reason I can read novels after 3.5 years of serious dedication is because I've done enormous amounts of listening for about 8 years.

It's the initial stage, getting the basics, that's hard, but after that, you just have to keep enjoying everything you can get your hands on (try to get an electronic dictionary too, one with writing recognition). And with the internet, you don't have to be in Japan to do it.

=====

And apologies, I'm can't join you in translating the novels m(_ _ )m. I'm working on some (mostly) audio-related translation projects myself.

[omimon]

Originally Posted by karice67

^
I'm self-taught too, and quite frankly, I can't agree with focusing on just the reading side. And I definitely don't recommend trying to translate unless you're already very good at both languages. Unless you're really die-hard about what you're trying to translate, you'll only get frustrated.

Reading really isn't enough. All four skills (reading, writing, listening, speaking) will help you learn, but the real key is INPUT: read and listen to as much material as you can. Related material if you can help it (e.g. try watching anime with Japanese closed captions, reading manga in Japanese and watching their anime adaptations etc). The main reason I can read novels after 3.5 years of serious dedication is because I've done enormous amounts of listening for about 8 years.

It's the initial stage, getting the basics, that's hard, but after that, you just have to keep enjoying everything you can get your hands on (try to get an electronic dictionary too, one with writing recognition). And with the internet, you don't have to be in Japan to do it.

=====

And apologies, I'm can't join you in translating the novels m(_ _ )m. I'm working on some (mostly) audio-related translation projects myself.

I want to add that with novels like Bake, understanding the language is one thing but also understanding the lingos. This series and some others use what I would call modern usage of a language and just studying a language with a textbook can only get you so far.

[karice67]

Originally Posted by omimon

I want to add that with novels like Bake, understanding the language is one thing but also understanding the lingos. This series and some others use what I would call modern usage of a language and just studying a language with a textbook can only get you so far.

*Agrees*. Just looking at just the Bake drama CD made me really grateful that I've lived in Japan and actually asked about some of the things that would otherwise have confused me (e.g. 倍率/bairitsu = ratio of applicants to available places at a school. Is there actually a word for this in English? ).

[Shikijin]

Originally Posted by karice67

I'm self-taught too, and quite frankly, I can't agree with focusing on just the reading side.

It is obvious that speaking helps you remember the words better, and writing helps you remember the kanji better. In high school though I was required to learn how to translate Latin and Ancient Greek yet I was not required to speak nor write them, so the idea is perfectly acceptable for me.

And I definitely don't recommend trying to translate unless you're already very good at both languages. Unless you're really die-hard about what you're trying to translate, you'll only get frustrated.

All the material I use to learn Japanese is in English, but it would have been too hard to start translating directly in English, so I started translating the first chapters of Nisemonogatari in my mothertongue. The first chapter, 6 pages long, took me 2 whole days. I admit I even felt a sense of proudness. When I got to chapter 4 things had started to click. I went back to the first chapters and I noticed I had to correct almost half of them with what I've learned meanwhile.

One cannot hope to learn without errors. On the other hand, I didn't find it frustrating. In fact, quite the opposite. The more you go on, the more you feel you are becoming skillful. You just have to accept initially you will have more losses than victories.

Originally Posted by omimon

I want to add that with novels like Bake, understanding the language is one thing but also understanding the lingos. This series and some others use what I would call modern usage of a language and just studying a language with a textbook can only get you so far.

Well, technically with Shinobu there is even old Japanese And Nisio not only makes a modern use of Japanese, but also speaks with a slight dialectal inflection (not counting characters that have specifically a heavy accent). I can even tell where he is from

Originally Posted by karice67

*Agrees*. Just looking at just the Bake drama CD made me really grateful that I've lived in Japan and actually asked about some of the things that would otherwise have confused me (e.g. 倍率/bairitsu = ratio of applicants to available places at a school. Is there actually a word for this in English? ).

Searching it on kotobank:

１ ある数が他の数の何倍であるかを示す比率。また特に、競争率。「―の高い名門校」

競争率 (n) ratio of successful (applicants) to total applicants

I think it's "admission rate" in English.

If you want a word difficult to translate, try this

マッチポンプ (n,vs) stirring up trouble to get credit from the solution (wasei: match pump, i.e. lighting a match and then putting it out with a water pump)

[LotionExplosion]

Originally Posted by Shikijin

Because the only active translators are busy with Kizumonogatari, I guess

Btw, I was thinking about it... (no, I'm not talking about translating neko )

Personally I am self-taught on Japanese. I just thought of a simple trick: you get the text in an electronic format, and then you check each word simply with a click. This is a lot faster than checking words on a dictionary (find radical + count strokes), though it will still take a lot of time. If you can skip learning kanji then you can just learn the grammar and you can start practicing immediately. The idea is that learning how to translate a written language takes less time than learning how to speak, read and write in it, because you focus on a smaller task. Over time though you will even start to get the subtleties of fansubs. You need to start translating first because that way you can see if your idea of the original text's meaning makes sense, after some chapters though when you think you've got the gist of Japanese you can start reading directly.

What I was thinking is that I could try to write a guide on how to translate Japanese. I am just self-taught, but I managed to learn more than what you can find on free sites. I was picturing this grand plan of training people on how to translate Bakemonogatari to save me work. The only point is that translating something takes more time than one could possibly imagine, and this even if one doesn't even need to check words on a dictionary. It takes a lot of dedication. Learning a language is not easy, and it's not something you can do in just a month. If you think you will still be watching anime five years from now, then learning a bit of Japanese may be a handy hobby though.

I'm assuming your tellin me to try out rosetta stone, only if I had the time. But yeah I'll try to learn but will take a while.

[karice67]

Originally Posted by Shikijin

In high school though I was required to learn how to translate Latin and Ancient Greek yet I was not required to speak nor write them, so the idea is perfectly acceptable for me.

I've studied Latin too, but only reading/translation...and yeah, I really don't remember much of it.

I think you might well be one of the die-hard fans (I mean it as a compliment!). I know I sure didn't want to try translating Bakemonogatari when I started reading - I just wanted to keep reading more!

Originally Posted by Shikijin

I think it's "admission rate" in English.

This or "acceptance rates". But it's still slightly different because (# of applicants accepted) doesn't necessarily equal (# of places available) <= a bit pedantic, I know. Additionally, the term in Japanese has an additional purpose in the Japanese senior high school system: it's published BEFORE schools determine who to accept, so that students can change their minds about the school they apply to (they can only apply to one school at a time). In this case, using "admission/acceptance rate" would be a bit strange.

Originally Posted by Shikijin

If you want a word difficult to translate, try this

マッチポンプ (n,vs) stirring up trouble to get credit from the solution (wasei: match pump, i.e. lighting a match and then putting it out with a water pump)

I don't think we have a term for this one...as of yet, anyway. It's fun to learn how they manipulate words to create such succinct terms...not so fun when you have to translate them

[Shikijin]

Originally Posted by LotionExplosion

I'm assuming your tellin me to try out rosetta stone, only if I had the time. But yeah I'll try to learn but will take a while.

Oh, no. Not that I have anything against rosetta stone. I said my idea was to write a specific guide to teach people how to translate Nisio ('cause it's the only author I have ever read) and the Japanese you will encounter when you read his books. I would have explained also how to use JWPce and how to search words not on your dictionary on the web. And I would have even supervised the translation and provided a scrupulous ダメ出し (fault-finding).

Originally Posted by karice67

I think you might well be one of the die-hard fans (I mean it as a compliment!). I know I sure didn't want to try translating Bakemonogatari when I started reading - I just wanted to keep reading more!

I had to translate because otherwise I couldn't have read anything. When every sentence has something you don't understand and you have to stop checking grammar, you can't follow the story. When I translate instead I take care everything makes sense, so even if now I can just read an I am fine, translating still makes me attempt to deal with critical points. Anyway, after Kizu I don't know if I will take on Nise I probably will try reading Zaregoto

This or "acceptance rates". But it's still slightly different because (# of applicants accepted) doesn't necessarily equal (# of places available)

Ah, it's a cap on the number of applicants. Well, as expected the Japanese have very specific terms about school For example in my language there is not even an equivalent word for juniors and seniors

I don't think we have a term for this one...as of yet, anyway. It's fun to learn how they manipulate words to create such succinct terms...not so fun when you have to translate them

Although I have found it first in an English book about Japanese, the term is actually found once in Nise

[redgrnbluylw]

Any news on Shiro yet? (sorry to change the topic)

[omimon]

Originally Posted by redgrnbluylw

Any news on Shiro yet? (sorry to change the topic)

It's already out. I'm personally reading it right now.

[alviam099]

Originally Posted by LotionExplosion

AWESOME! Damn, If I can only read Japanese, I would die Happy.

EDIT: Why isn't that being translated now

Same for me =o=

but It is allowed not incest They're not related but omimon did they do it >.> curious ...

[omimon]

Originally Posted by alviam099

Same for me =o=

but It is allowed not incest They're not related but omimon did they do it >.> curious ...

Wait...Lotion and us were talking about Tsukihi and Araragi.....and they are related....confusion

[alviam099]

Originally Posted by omimon

Wait...Lotion and us were talking about Tsukihi and Araragi.....and they are related....confusion

I thought Tsukihi's a phoenix

[omimon]

Originally Posted by alviam099

I thought Tsukihi's a phoenix

It's complicated but I think she's still blood-related.

[Darknemo2000]

Did Hitagi get a haircut? Shit I would hate that if its true, since usually when long haired character cuts hair short they look worse.

[Shikijin]

Originally Posted by Darknemo2000

Did Hitagi get a haircut? Shit I would hate that if its true, since usually when long haired character cuts hair short they look worse.

Spoiler for Nisemonogatari:

Yeah, they are currently shorter than Kanbaru's, who has been growing hers longer since Bake though. If it can comfort you, in the first book of Nise she still has her old hair.

[Shadow5YA]

Anyone have a full summary of what happened in Tsubasa Tiger?

[Wigwams]

Spoiler for about nadeko:

so some people have said that nadeko is actually perverted... why is that? what did she do?

[omimon]

Originally Posted by Wigwams

Spoiler for about nadeko:

so some people have said that nadeko is actually perverted... why is that? what did she do?

It's very subtle but she pretty much throws herself on to Araragi.

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

Anyone have a full summary of what happened in Tsubasa Tiger?

I'm only on chapter 22 so I can only tell u things up to here:

Spoiler:

The story starts out with Hanekawa doing an opening speech to the readers about how she sees herself. One interesting thing we find out is that she sometimes write out "Araragi Tsubasa" in her notebook. The story then truly begins with Hanekawa waking up for the first day of the second semester. We are shown that she actually sleeps in the hallway of her house and unlike Araragi who have sisters to wake him up, she gets waken up by one of those automatic vacuum cleaners hitting her head. She calls it Runba. She goes downstairs and prepare breakfast for herself. The "family" isn't close at all, they each cook food for themselves and almost never talk to each other. While going to school she suddenly meets Hachikuji who tells her that shes looking for Araragi. It turns out that he kidnapped her the other day to his house and when leaving she left her signature backpack at his house. Afterward they go their separate ways but not until Hachikuji spills out that what happens next with her and Araragi would be the next book. Hanekawa retorts that it is pretty much an advertisement. She continues on her way to school but then meets a tiger, not just any tiger but one is that able to talk. After saying something it walked pass her and disappeared. When Hanekawa got to school she instantly went to Senjougahara to talk about the tiger. They talk for a bit but then see their classmates gathering up near the classroom window. They look out and it turns out Hanekawa's home caught on fire. She went to the site and sees that everything has been destroyed. She tells her "parents" that she's going to stay with a friend and they go live in a hotel. However it turns out she's not actually planning on going to a friend but rather she's going to the cram school ruin that Oshino used to live. She stays there for a night but gets waken up by Senjougahara. She gets slapped and Senjougahara starts crying while holding her. It turns out that Senjougahara has been trying to find her for the past night. She initially didn't want to bother her since she thought Hanekawa would be grieving but decided to check up on her just once. When she tried to contact her Hanekawa's cellphone was off so she contacted pretty much everyone else including Hanekawa's "parents." From the very beginning she had a feeling that she would be at the ruin but she refused to believe that a girl would do something like that. When she found her she pretty much had an emotional breakdown. She took Hanekawa to her home and they stayed there for the next full day. They did things like eating together, bathing together and sleeping together. While asleep Black Hanekawa appears and it turns out that every time "she" appears its actually a different version of her. The reason she appeared this time is because subconsciously Hanekawa is actually stressed out by the fact that the home she has lived in for the past 15 years is gone. She goes outside and hunts down the tiger. She threatens it that if it messes with Hanekawa she'll kill it. The tiger however responds that the problem lies in the fact that Hanekawa saw him. It stared right at her and she jumped back so far she landed outside of town but to no avail the tiger reappeared in front of her. The event remained unexplained and she returns to Senjougahara's home. Senjoughara was awake and they meet for the first time. She wanted to shake hands with Black Hanekawa but the cat warned her that her powers will drain her dry but Senjougahara still wanted too. They did for an instant and Senjougahara pretty much got weak knees from it. All in all Senjougahara underestimated her powers. Hanekawa "wakes" up and starts to make breakfast for her and Senjougahara. When eating Senjougahara starts to criticize her when it turns out Hanekawa doesn't put any toppings or sauce whatsoever on her food. Senjougahara basically describes Hanekawa as being inhuman and that they way she acts is abnormal.