(L) Elfen Lied

[Entropy]

Originally Posted by Srin Tuar

DU is not as dense as tungsten, so it wouldnt be any better. But density is probably not relevant, neither is round mass. What really matters in total energy, since the target is a "vector" force field, velocity will penetrate better than bullet mass. For that reason, a .357 magnum would probably be a significant enough threat to them, perhaps more than a .50 cal with AP rounds (which do absolutely nothing to increase total energy)

*checks research about the densities of DU and Tungsten*

Point conceeded,19.05g per cm^3 for DU and 19.3g per cm^3 for tungsten.Not much,but still a difference .

It is however much cheaper,so if I had an automatic weapon more likely I'd be using DU than Tungsten,but than again there are health risks to the target to worry ab...ono wait screw that we want to kill them

And I never thought about velocity as being a factor in being able to penetrate vectors,doesn't that mean that Sabot rod penetrators have a better chance of hitting a Diclonius than a normal bullet?I would think so.I took the safe route from the show and thought mainly about round mass instead .

拳銃……ニューナンブM60短銃、P226、P228、G19（各10丁前後）
ＳＭＧ……MP5A4、A5、SD4、SD6（各10丁前後）

Handgin :- M60, P226, P228, G19
SMG :- MP5A4, A5, SD4, SD6

So your comments about SAT having more then those seem abit.....off.

I never implied that they WOULD have heavier weapons actually,but that they SHOULD have.

Wanted something that could punch through a vector shield?Go for a larger bullet.Wanted volume of fire to overwhelm the diclo?Use a gatling gun or even Metal Storm technology if they were desperate,I'd like to see a diclo go against a million rounds per minute.

They can have a facility to store dozens of dicloniuses that probably cost millions of dollars US and yet they couldn't pay a few thousand US dollars for something as simple as a Battle Rifle or even a Heavy Machine Gun?

In short the security staff AND the "Special forces" were simply not prepared to handle a diclonius threat.Their men were ill-armed to deal with the threat and unnecessary lives were wasted to kill something that should have been easily taken care of from far away and with something big from the get-go.

The laws of anime at work.

[Ledgem]

I was infatuated with "Lilium" (as was most everyone else, I'm sure) and I did a few searches. I found something semi-interesting; there's a song called Elfenlied and another called Elfenliedchen, I believe by the same composer?). I couldn't find either song, unfortunately. According to the definition, though, a lied (pronounced "leet" - it's German) is a type of song, referring to music made for piano in... oh, what was it, the 16th century?

As for Lilium, I found that, not surprisingly, it is a real song. I found it while looking for mobile phone ringtones, from Motorola's phone internet music store =) Sequentia was the group or album that released it/it was released on; it's a choral group, I suppose, and they title it by the fuller title ("castitas lilium" or so, maybe a bit more). I haven't had the time to search for this yet, but if you're crazy about that song and want to hear it in a few different versions, then there you go.

[MakubeX2]

Originally Posted by Ledgem

As for Lilium, I found that, not surprisingly, it is a real song. I found it while looking for mobile phone ringtones, from Motorola's phone internet music store =) Sequentia was the group or album that released it/it was released on; it's a choral group, I suppose, and they title it by the fuller title ("castitas lilium" or so, maybe a bit more). I haven't had the time to search for this yet, but if you're crazy about that song and want to hear it in a few different versions, then there you go.

EL's version of Lilium isn't exactly real.
The most obvious thing about this little tune is that the lyrics does not match the tune when they play the Georgian chant version of it as a requiem.It's sounds more like a Frankenstein job where they took various latin phrase put them together and made a requiem tune to go with it.

It works however,like a beautiful monster which fits well with Lucy.

[Mashimaro]

On the last episode they played the full version of lilium..
Does that mean The op single will be coming out anytime soon?

[Srin Tuar]

Originally Posted by Entropy

And I never thought about velocity as being a factor in being able to penetrate vectors,doesn't that mean that Sabot rod penetrators have a better chance of hitting a Diclonius than a normal bullet?I would think so.I took the safe route from the show and thought mainly about round mass instead .

Well, they were measuring the dichlonius' deflecting ability in terms of joules, a measure of energy, and not in terms of mass or anything.

Since f=mv^2, velocity is exponetially more important than round mass (once you overcome air resistance that is) However, that said, larger bore weapons typically put more powder behind each round, so there is a good correlation.


Anyway, in summary, the vectors dont seem to be too dangerous, or offer very much protection, imo. (at least not in a straight up fight)

[NoSanninWa]

Originally Posted by MakubeX2

But you have to wonder what is the atcual message behind this series. This series has everything. Gore, cute girls, drama, action and sci-fi. But how is it connected to the old german song "Elfenlied" ?

Granted that the anime has a music box that connect Lucy and Kouta, so that explains the "song" part, but the "Elf" part remains a mystery.

The title in regards to the manga is even harder to explain.The only thing that had some context to the title is Nozomi teaching Nyuu to sing Elfenlied.

It makes perfect sense if you find a translation of the german poem. I didn't save the link so I'll let you google for it yourself. The theme of the poem is that it is impossible for elves and humans to live in the same world (even if they love each other).

Make sense now?

[Mashimaro]

Today I had just found the elfen lied ost. Finally. Although it doesn't have the full version of Lilium but it does have the preview lilium version sang by the male chorus.

[Arpeggio]

For the sake of pointless nitpicking:

I noticed that on the manga covers, the variation between hair colors for the diclonius is far greater than in the anime. Unless I'm mistaken, it would appear as though #35's hair isn't even a shade of purple or pink; rather, she's blonde.

In the anime, they seem to make all dicloniuses out to be extremely similar - especially with regards to hair color. Hell, I'll go out on a limb and say that Nana and Lucy almost looked like clones to me, with the only noticeable differencess being their age and their hairstyles. However, for the manga, it's clear that Lucy's hair is a lighter pink while Nana's is purple. Did the artists for the anime take the liberty of giving them all similar haircolors or am I looking at the wrong characters on the manga cover art? I'd say that's a pretty damn significant change they made to #35 in particular.

Going off the anime, I was beginning to think it was a common trait for all dicloniuses to have purple hair. If they're going to replace us in five years or so, I have to admit they'd start to look boring together. As we were phased out, imagine 10 billion of them populating the Earth instead of us, and not a single significant variation in hair color. If that ended up being the case, well... They may have vectors over us, but they'd suck as far as collective variations of style went.

[USCPharmacist]

So in the sequel are we gonna have diclonius vs human war? If so which side do you think Nana will be on? Also will Magneto allied with the diclonius or fight against them? So many questions, so little fanfic

My bad just found some "vector" porn lol

[MakubeX2]

Originally Posted by Arpeggio

I noticed that on the manga covers, the variation between hair colors for the diclonius is far greater than in the anime. Unless I'm mistaken, it would appear as though #35's hair isn't even a shade of purple or pink; rather, she's blonde.

In the anime, they seem to make all dicloniuses out to be extremely similar - especially with regards to hair color. Hell, I'll go out on a limb and say that Nana and Lucy almost looked like clones to me, with the only noticeable differencess being their age and their hairstyles. However, for the manga, it's clear that Lucy's hair is a lighter pink while Nana's is purple. Did the artists for the anime take the liberty of giving them all similar haircolors or am I looking at the wrong characters on the manga cover art? I'd say that's a pretty damn significant change they made to #35 in particular.

As I have said on Matthew's Blog.

It's a part on the anime's director to misled the viewers on who really is Kurama's daughter.

Let's ask how many of you guys were taken in by the anime that Nana is the natural born Daughter of Kurama before the last Ep. Hell,it will be pretty obvious who is Kurama's daughter in his flashback if Mariko's hair is coloured blonde.

Another reason for this is to show that Lucy is the Queen and establish the fact that all Diclos in the anime is "descended" from her.

[Stone_Cult]

Originally Posted by MakubeX2

Another reason for this is to show that Lucy is the Queen and establish the fact that all Diclos in the anime is "descended" from her.

I think the term Queen implied that she was the only female diclonus capable of "natural" reproduction of more diclonus. She was by no means the first and from bits and pieces I put together, she can't "infect" other people the way #3 did in the series.

Which brings up a question of my own... is Lucy #1? I never noticed what her numerical designation was.

[MakubeX2]

Originally Posted by Stone_Cult

Which brings up a question of my own... is Lucy #1? I never noticed what her numerical designation was.

They use numerical designation for Silpelits.

Lucy is Lucy.

For more info, refer to the follows :-

Silpelit is german and is used in the old German poem/song "Elfenlied", the source of the title. It's a name of an elf halfling whose parentage is of human and elf. Logical choice of name for the species of Dicolnius in the series which are born of humans infected with the vectors virus but cannot reproduce.

"Lucy" is the also the name given to a ancient female fossil that supposedly is the remains of Humanity's mother.

http://www.asu.edu/clas/iho/lucy.html

In the series, the scientist wants to capture Lucy since she is the only Diclonius being able to reproduce. Hence she can be said to be the mother of Dicloniu-nity,so it's not a random name.

The mangaka did his homework regarding the scientific terms use in the series.

[SeedBoy]

Originally Posted by dreamless

hmm... so that's it... I just got it again and listened to it again... yup, I guess he said takusankanashiiomoi... however it sounds like takusangarashiiomoi... I guess some translation got it to something like takusanairashiiomoi because of that...

for that part, I think it's quite cheesy because

Spoiler:

although he told her that he couldn't forgive her, he didn't act any single bit like he couldn't forgive her. I mean, do you kiss/hug/embrace someone you can't forgive? It's like he just said he couldn't forgive her as an afterthought, some empty words he then totally forgot about in the next moment. The flashbacks shown after that didn't contain even one single scene from the death of his father and sister, only those together listening to music in the rain and the zoo scenes. Hmm... he kissed the one who killed his sister and father right in front of him, I expected that at least he should get reminded of that bloody scene, yet he didn't feel any bit uncomfortable at all?

Remember that he is also the cause that makes her like that which causes his family's death.

[Stone_Cult]

MakubeX2, Thx for clearing that up for me. So its safe to say "Lucy", like Nyuu isn't her real name. Makes me wonder if they identified her true name in the manga (assuming its somthing different).

[Trax]

So what exactly is the deal with the diclonius? My impression from the anime, is that they are some kind of mutants caused by a virus infecting one of the parents. When their vector powers become active (which often happens when they turn 3 according to those researchers) apparently so does their instinct to kill humans while they don't ever seem to kill anything else, not even a dog that bites them (which explains the Wanta scene, that was pretty good by the way - I really thought the little pup got squished).

So where did this virus originate from? Or has there been one mutant that started this at some point? According to animenfo the diclonius were created by humans, but I don't recall anything in the anime to corroborate that.
Why are they so hostile towards humanity? It's undeniable that there is an instinct to kill, yet Nana seems to contradict this somehow (although we did see her in 'evil' mode once). Their upbringing and how they have been treated by others seem to have a big influence. Frankly, I'm still amazed Nana turned out the way she did, even with Kurama's support.
All of the diclonius in the anime seemed to have some special connection with Kurama. Lucy let him live when she broke out, Nana considers him her papa, and Mariko was his actual daughter. I can understand the last 2, but why Lucy aswell? And the diclonius that infected him seemed to pick him specifically too.
Where did the Nyuu personality come from? Was it caused by the shot to the head, or did Lucy have a dual personality all along because she was also traumatized after seeing Kouta so upset because of her all those years ago.
Are there really male diclonius, or did the organization leader and his son have some kind of surgery or dna manipulation to make it appear so? They didn't have any of the powers, although there is the possibility that the male of the species are supposed to be like that.

One thing I kinda expected towards the end of the anime was that Lucy and Kouta would get it on, since she was the only diclonius that could reproduce, and as Nyuu she also came on quite strongly once. Also, the ending felt a bit ominous to me. Sure, they continued their life to live as a happy carefree family, but as Lucy said alot more children would be born as diclonius in 5 years. Once that happens, humanity would most likely be wiped out, and possibly the diclonius themselves too since they seem very irritable even towards eachother (well maybe that was just Lucy :P). I wonder if Lucy realizes that Kouta would be one of the victims of the coming onslaught, and if she can do something about it. Ok, that's enough rambling for now...

[dreamless]

AFAIK the diclonius are not created by humans, but the next stage of natural evolution who will instinctively wipe out and replace humans...

[7thMethuselah]

Ok, I just watched entire Elfen Lied in three sessions and my comment would be

W.T.F.

Thie anime was quite ... unusual to say the least. I did think it wasn't too bad although I found the pedo scene a bit over the edge imho... Nicely done how all the seperate stories somehow end up (although parts of them could've been guessed easilly).
Also alot of oppurtunities for a second season, not that I know if any would be made,

[karasu]

Originally Posted by Trax

So what exactly is the deal with the diclonius?

From what I've been able to tell from the anime and the manga, it is initially a mutation that doesn't survive in the wild naturally because diclonius are not fertile. Transmission of the diclonius trait is possible via their 'vectors' --- hence why they are called vectors. Which leads to ...

Originally Posted by trax

All of the diclonius in the anime seemed to have some special connection with Kurama. Lucy let him live when she broke out, Nana considers him her papa, and

Spoiler:

Kurama is a carrier for the diclonius trait after his run in with the little diclonius lab girl that the horny professor head shot. They can sense he's a carrier and so they don't kill him..

That and he's treated Nana like a daughter. Combine that with the entire point of the series which is "Does environment or nature determine who we are?"

Nana represents the internal drive to control yourself and do what's right. Nana has the power to destory but knowing that it's wrong, she doesn't. Nana is the ethical standard. Nana represents Existentialist philosophy.

Mariko represents the anti-ethical. Mariko wants to destory simply because she has the power to. She doesn't give consideration to ethics or morality. The only ethics in life is control and power, and since she has it, she is entitled. Mariko is Nietzche (mis spelled that).

Lucy is the prototypical anti-hero. Lucy has arisen from a troubled past of non-acceptance because of her difference. When she finds that her difference provides her with power, she lashes out in anger. Lucy knows what she's doing is wrong, but sees it in terms of 'eye for an eye.' If she can't be accepted by the current world, she will create one in which she can.

Spoiler:

The real question becomes whether she can understand that it is possible for her to be accepted in the current world and that destruction is not necessary. Lucy's is a quest to find love and home. Nyuu represented that desire to be cared for and loved in a way that wasn't possible when she had to be on guard against humanity.

And the diclonius that infected him seemed to pick him specifically too.

Cause he was the asshole on the other side of the glass launching lead balls at her. Seems like a decent revenge to make somebody spawn the downfall of humanity in exchange for target practicing against a 8 year old kid.

In anycase, the anime seemed to end to quickly and there's more to the story so I ordered the manga can started reading it. Volume three is already a bit different than the anime was (Mayu's perception of Kouta being a big one).

Can't wait for the next volumes to get here.

[Trax]

Originally Posted by karasu

Kurama is a carrier for the diclonius trait after his run in with the little diclonius lab girl that the horny professor head shot. They can sense he's a carrier and so they don't kill him..

Well Nana had special treatment obviously, as a surrogate daughter in the place of Mariko who was out of his reach. I also considered the fact that he gets special treatment because he was infected, but I'm not sure if they can actually sense that. In the anime it is also stated that diclonius have been known to kill their parents aswell, which kinda contradicts the carrier notion (since one of those parents should be a carrier). However, Mariko proves that this isn't always the case so these parent killings may have been cases where the parents treated the diclonius like a freak and the diclonius lashed out. In the case of Lucy, even if she could sense out carriers, I'm not too sure she would care either way. She could just infect others, or procreate by herself (but it's possible she does not know this yet). Most diclonius seem to be highly irritable and irrational once they develop their vectors.

Originally Posted by karasu

Cause he was the asshole on the other side of the glass launching lead balls at her. Seems like a decent revenge to make somebody spawn the downfall of humanity in exchange for target practicing against a 8 year old kid.

I dunno, killing would probably be more satisfying, especially for a kid. Although the diclonii may be highly intelligent even at a young age, in which case that kind of deviousness could be explained.

I noticed something in the manga (the bits I could find) by the way... Lucy has alot more vectors than the mere 4 in the anime.

[TronDD]

Originally Posted by Trax

In the anime it is also stated that diclonius have been known to kill their parents aswell...However, Mariko proves that this isn't always the case so these parent killings may have been cases where the parents treated the diclonius like a freak and the diclonius lashed out. Most diclonius seem to be highly irritable and irrational once they develop their vectors.

We never see a diclonius kill it's parents just because it was a diclonius. I think that was just a story told to the people who had to basically torture these children at the lab. They had to justify their actions.

Each diclonius we see has had a pretty rough life which can account for it's violence. Even Lucy, who we see as a "free" child, isn't violent until she is pushed to that point by bullies.

I think we are shown that diclonius can, indeed, coexist with "normal" humans. They aren't out to destroy them. It was humans that destroyed the diclonius psycologically. We're the monsters