Tate no Yuusha/Shield Hero Season 2 Anime Episode Discussion

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Huh...?

They considered that the loss they suffered at the hand of Glass & then at the hand of L'Arc & Co was meant to be as a fixed event,

And what about the fact that...

Originally Posted by Huh...?

and that Naofumi won them because of some cheat.

Okay this is clearly being in denial and still doesn't make any sense. I don't think they are so rule-abiding to not even want to know what kind of "cheat" Naofumi used to completely outclass them in strength to the point he even defeated an enemy that, according to them, is supposed to be unbeatable.

It could be believable if we were really talking about a competition, but they have been living in this "game" for several months now, and they have been involved in it against their will. I would want to get all the advantages that I can get, rules be damned, in that situation.

[Huh...?]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Okay this is clearly being in denial and still doesn't make any sense.

That's the part of the plot around the 3 Heroes, which would be more covered later on (my guess is in Season 3).

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

It could be believable if we were really talking about a competition, but they have been living in this "game" for several months now, and they have been involved in it against their will. I would want to get all the advantages that I can get, rules be damned, in that situation.

As per the initial Light Novel volumes (aka., skipped plot from Season 1), they still feel that they are in some form of advance VR game or in a Dream World, or something. They don't really want to believe all the stuff that's going around them is reality, and while ignoring all the stuff around and just enjoying the Game.

Also, they are ignoring all the info that Naofumi has provided, because they believe that what they know is the correct info. While the info others are providing are fake, in order to misdirect them so they become weak, while others become strong and gain more. Aka., to them everything is a competition.
Not to forget, each one has a problematic nature.
- Spear Hero is a womanizer and thinks that his comrade are always right (also he is the type who believes what masses tell even if its false, kind-off like Kouki from Arifureta).
- Bow Hero is someone who believe that he is always "Right".
- Sword Hero is someone who believes in solo play, and doesn't like to work with others, unless extremely needed.

There is more to this stuff, but its from future plot, which would be revealed slowly from mid Season 2 onward.

[Twi]

Even if you say that it feels like the narrative is bending backward for a very long time (most anime do not get three seasons and that's more than 10 Volumes by then) to make them incompetent to a degree that's utterly ridiculous when part of the reason they were summoned and could use their own methods is because of the knowledge they have from their original games. He was outclassing them even when they had refinement techniques that he didn't and he was lower level. If that's the case, if they have a single refinement method each if Levels are meaningless then what was the point of even having them?

It feels like the author wrote them with a handicap to screw them over and justify why the only person who didn't have any sort of knowledge from a similar game (he played a different kind) managed to get ahead of them by the Second Wave and completely render them inert by the Third Wave. The fact that it comes from Naofumi's PoV makes it worse because we only see the aftermath of what they do and often only the bad stuff, completely invalidating anything positive they do. At this point, they basically exist to make a mess for Naofumi to clean up, which was fine before the Pope Fight but it should have ended there.


Like, I understand what the author was going for with the flawed heroes. Someone mentioned the slavery angle was a gimmick at this point to lure readers of that type of thing in. It's a stupidly popular thing in Isekai and this is no different. Naofumi started low so he needed to surpass them to show even with all the handicaps he managed to come out on top of those who looked down on him.

But because of that it fell into the same trap that the other isekai do, where you have to skirt suspension of disbelief because by now it's to the point where they should honestly be dead. Honestly, if you just had Glass or L'Arc kill even one of them during the previous Wave it would have ended since then the Chocobo Queen has to carry out her promise and kill the other three, including Naofumi, to replace them. So instead of raising their competency, they lowered the antagonists who were willing to invade another world to save their own, leaving them to ignore the very obvious soft targets to focus on the one group of people who could actually stall them.

[Frontier]

What gets me is Fitoria made such a point that the Four Heroes need to work together and yet even after what they went through with the Pope and Naofumi's redemption it seems like nothing has changed and Naofumi has to basically resolve everything without the Three Stooges. So what's even the point?

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by Frontier

What gets me is Fitoria made such a point that the Four Heroes need to work together and yet even after what they went through with the Pope and Naofumi's redemption it seems like nothing has changed and Naofumi has to basically resolve everything without the Three Stooges. So what's even the point?

Hard to answer that without spoilers but you will understand soon. In general though they are threatened by Naofumi and his ever increasing strength. Not to mention theirpride in the knowledge and natural arrogance won’t let them listen to reason unless something drastic happens. This makes them feel the need to take drastic actions to fulfill their pride first and foremost.

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

Hard to answer that without spoilers but you will understand soon. In general though they are threatened by Naofumi and his ever increasing strength. Not to mention theirpride in the knowledge and natural arrogance won’t let them listen to reason unless something drastic happens. This makes them feel the need to take drastic actions to fulfill their pride first and foremost.

Good to hear .

[Tactics]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Okay this is clearly being in denial and still doesn't make any sense. I don't think they are so rule-abiding to not even want to know what kind of "cheat" Naofumi used to completely outclass them in strength to the point he even defeated an enemy that, according to them, is supposed to be unbeatable.

It could be believable if we were really talking about a competition, but they have been living in this "game" for several months now, and they have been involved in it against their will. I would want to get all the advantages that I can get, rules be damned, in that situation.

IIRC they do asked Naofumi about what kind of cheat he used before the Island, even raise eyebrows in assumption he didn't want to share.
When Naofumi said there's no cheat they called it a lie as that respond, for them, is equal to Naofumi wanted to get all the glory for himself (so competition is indeed in their mind, probably due to their own gaming experience); remember that Ren and Motoyasu have no objection when Itsuki mentioned using item duplication cheat for smooth progress. Isekai hero succeeded without using cheat is illogical to them.

[stray]

Originally Posted by Twi

It feels like the author wrote them with a handicap to screw them over and justify why the only person who didn't have any sort of knowledge from a similar game (he played a different kind) managed to get ahead of them by the Second Wave and completely render them inert by the Third Wave. The fact that it comes from Naofumi's PoV makes it worse because we only see the aftermath of what they do and often only the bad stuff, completely invalidating anything positive they do. At this point, they basically exist to make a mess for Naofumi to clean up, which was fine before the Pope Fight but it should have ended there.

Hmm... I'm not sure I understand why you seem to want them to take on a greater relevance. I mean do you expect the reverse harem to be fully fleshed out in something like MobuSeka? Generally they exist to be mocked -- though they might do some interesting things here and there. We got less of the three stooges than we actually should have this season though the net result is basically the same regardless of skipped content.

Someone mentioned the slavery angle was a gimmick at this point to lure readers of that type of thing in. It's a stupidly popular thing in Isekai and this is no different. Naofumi started low so he needed to surpass them to show even with all the handicaps he managed to come out on top of those who looked down on him.

I'm not really sure what to say for the slavery thing in Shield Hero but they've actually shown the brands being removed which in other series I've seen never really happens. Its a bit more tasteful and feels more temporary than in other isekai.

[Twi]

Originally Posted by stray

Hmm... I'm not sure I understand why you seem to want them to take on a greater relevance. I mean do you expect the reverse harem to be fully fleshed out in something like MobuSeka? Generally they exist to be mocked -- though they might do some interesting things here and there. We got less of the three stooges than we actually should have this season though the net result is basically the same regardless of skipped content.I'm not really sure what to say for the slavery thing in Shield Hero but they've actually shown the brands being removed which in other series I've seen never really happens. Its a bit more tasteful and feels more temporary than in other isekai.

Of the MobuSeka Five, Julius is the only one who really has the potential to really be fleshed out but that's a topic for another thread.

On the topic of the four heroes, in a spoiler tag because I want to try not to have a wall of text.

Spoiler:

The thing is, they do have greater relevance by the sheer fact that they have three of the most powerful weapons in the setting. Like Ren, Itsuki, and Motoyatsu were personally summoned from their own world under circumstances that are spoilers, but the fact is they are meant to be special by the sheer virtue of them having those weapons. But they feel like they exist to basically make life harder for the protagonist.

Think about it: You get summoned to a world that has mechanics just like the game you played, including status screens and power-up methods, and yet basically all that knowledge you had from that reference material just makes you weaker in contrast to the guy who had no knowledge at all coming in. Why did three individuals, who came from different worlds with different Japans, but played a game that had similar enough mechanics and plotlines, end up here if all of that worked against them? If someone who had no previous knowledge was better suited for the role, then why weren't all four candidates summoned without that knowledge?

On the topic of the Seals:

Spoiler:

They only get removed when it serves the plot (i.e. when Raph's was removed to cause mental trauma for Naofumi to unlock his Curse Shield) or under another circumstance that has yet to come about at the time of this posting. Any other time that seal goes on, it doesn't come off. Just because the slave master is kind doesn't mean you aren't a slave, it just means they aren't being a dick so the audience can tell themselves that it's okay to root for this particular guy.

Even I gave Naofumi a pass when he got her despite having read the Light Novel and knew he had the Red Plague in mind when he saw her, only because his circumstances were that dire. But once the seal went off, her putting it back on so he could "trust her" basically meant that he wasn't forced to accept that he could trust her without it.

Mind you, I'm fairly sure that I'm giving it more weight than it needs to have. What happened was I saw an Isekai that had a decent premise with an interesting gimmick with the shield aspect, and I got invested. But when I get invested, I start to actually think in-depth about the other characters and their place in the narrative since the world doesn't revolve around the Main Character in a setting this big. There's too much happening off-screen for that.

They are flawed individuals for certain, but it legitimately feels like the author worked against them to an unnatural degree so that Naofumi basically gets to be a step above them by being the only one constantly doing the right thing in order to move the plot along. The seal served a purpose at the beginning of the show to get him his first party member and to show his desperation, but after it was removed they went out of their way to give it back to her and then justified it with the growth rate bonuses.

[stray]

Originally Posted by Twi

Of the MobuSeka Five, Julius is the only one who really has the potential to really be fleshed out but that's a topic for another thread.

On the topic of the four heroes, in a spoiler tag because I want to try not to have a wall of text.

Spoiler:

The thing is, they do have greater relevance by the sheer fact that they have three of the most powerful weapons in the setting. Like Ren, Itsuki, and Motoyatsu were personally summoned from their own world under circumstances that are spoilers, but the fact is they are meant to be special by the sheer virtue of them having those weapons. But they feel like they exist to basically make life harder for the protagonist.

Think about it: You get summoned to a world that has mechanics just like the game you played, including status screens and power-up methods, and yet basically all that knowledge you had from that reference material just makes you weaker in contrast to the guy who had no knowledge at all coming in. Why did three individuals, who came from different worlds with different Japans, but played a game that had similar enough mechanics and plotlines, end up here if all of that worked against them? If someone who had no previous knowledge was better suited for the role, then why weren't all four candidates summoned without that knowledge?

We just got introduced to (or reminded of? I forget) vassal weapons.

Mind you, I'm fairly sure that I'm giving it more weight than it needs to have. What happened was I saw an Isekai that had a decent premise with an interesting gimmick with the shield aspect, and I got invested. But when I get invested, I start to actually think in-depth about the other characters and their place in the narrative since the world doesn't revolve around the Main Character in a setting this big. There's too much happening off-screen for that.

They are flawed individuals for certain, but it legitimately feels like the author worked against them to an unnatural degree so that Naofumi basically gets to be a step above them by being the only one constantly doing the right thing in order to move the plot along. The seal served a purpose at the beginning of the show to get him his first party member and to show his desperation, but after it was removed they went out of their way to give it back to her and then justified it with the growth rate bonuses.

I dunno man I just feel like you're asking this to be something its not, which is why I brought up MobuSeka, which I think is actually really comparable in its parody aspects. Personally I like the three stooges for what they are, and don't really see the need for them to really take up more of the story than they do, especially when the series is able to introduce characters that are more interesting anyway like Ost, L'arc, hell even Rishia. They need a massive amount of development (and soul searching) before they're ready to be actual heroes, the bulk of which should probably take place off screen.

As far as the slavery thing Raphtalia specifically wanted the seal back, but I don't want to get into the slavery thing further because I'd very quickly end up in spoiler territory. I still have much less problem with it here than in a lot of other isekai, probably in no small part because it isn't a harem. It doesn't candy coat it either, the slave trader's place looks shady as fuck.

[cyberdemon]

Raphtalia getting her slave seal back wasn’t just to show her devotion to Naofumi. It also give her protection against bitch. Without the seal, Bitch would legally be able to kill Raphtalia without any consequences due to the Church and Trash’s hatred for Demi humans. Being his slave provides her protection against that. She knows Naofumi can protect her but getting the seal back reassures Naofumi and also shield both of the from the inevitable assassination attempt. Her freedom wasn’t worth the kind of devastation Naofumi would suffer if that happened.

[Twi]

That's the thing though, Myne tries to kill them repeatedly with or without the seal. The King was already against them as was the Church of Three Heroes, so legality hardly mattered. If being a part of the hero's party wasn't protection enough then being a slave to the Shield Hero doesn't offer any more protection since prior to the Queen's return everything was against him.

That was effectively the driving factor of the first part and what was the strongest hook: the world itself was against him, unfair and cruel, and despite that, he still needed to rise up.

In the end, like Stray said, ultimately I'm not the intended audience so I'm weighing things on a different scale because I ended up getting invested despite that.

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by Twi

That's the thing though, Myne tries to kill them repeatedly with or without the seal. The King was already against them as was the Church of Three Heroes, so legality hardly mattered. If being a part of the hero's party wasn't protection enough then being a slave to the Shield Hero doesn't offer any more protection since prior to the Queen's return everything was against him.

That was effectively the driving factor of the first part and what was the strongest hook: the world itself was against him, unfair and cruel, and despite that, he still needed to rise up.

In the end, like Stray said, ultimately I'm not the intended audience so I'm weighing things on a different scale because I ended up getting invested despite that.

The next 2 seasons will shine light, assuming some info isn’t cut, on a lot of these concerns. So have patience or looks for spoilers if that is your thing. There’s a lot that sadly can’t be gone over without spoilers. Though more questions were brought up in season one then you realize. Have fun with that lol. Let’s see if you anime, sans ln, detectives can realize that discrepancy lol

[stray]

Don't forget the reverence Raphtalia (and the Demis in general) had towards the Shield Hero even before Naofumi.

Originally Posted by Twi

That was effectively the driving factor of the first part and what was the strongest hook: the world itself was against him, unfair and cruel, and despite that, he still needed to rise up.

I've seen other people lose interest now that the redemption/revenge plotline is over but I'm not sure how that leads to you hoping all the heroes team up like they're the Avengers now. For me the appeal is more that Shield Hero really feels like a long, epic RPG more than 95% of other isekai out there. Speaking of games - and to your earlier point - its likely this is the first time they've actually summoned gamers and the book was the more traditional method of summoning. Instead of getting the best of the best this time they got the kind of MMO players who stand in fire.

If you're going to drop it I guess it is what it is but if you're on the fence I'd suggest sticking around until the second half of this season anyway. Turtle arc is a bit weak but should get much more interesting the next couple episodes.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by stray

If you're going to drop it I guess it is what it is but if you're on the fence I'd suggest sticking around until the second half of this season anyway. Turtle arc is a bit weak but should get much more interesting the next couple episodes.

Considering all these gripes are things that were evident by the end of season 1, I doubt dropping it as being considered at all or they wouldn't have even started season 2.

[Frontier]

We finally get Rishia's backstory, and she was a noble without much wealth but plenty in love and happiness, which tracks, until she was kidnapped as a means of forcing her parents to pay illegal debts. She was in despair over her situation until Itsuki finally saved her and her parents, basically, which is why she's so devoted to him. So not only does it kind of mirror Naofumi and Raphtalia, but it also shows that, yeah, the Three Stooges can do something genuinely heroic .

Now it's time for Naofumi and his party, along with Eclair and Baba, to climb up the Spirit Turtle to get to the bottom of how to stop it. As JRPG environments and dungeons go, it sounds pretty solid .

It's got to be surreal for Ost that she was ostensibly just using people for the sake of the Spirit Turtle and under most circumstances would be seen as a villain, but because she's helping everyone stop the rampaging Spirit Turtle everyone sees her as a hero instead. She's probably not used to being praised and looked up to so much .

Ost and Rishia seem to be really bonding, Ost giving Rishia the emotional support and reinforcement she desperately needs and Rishia genuinely caring about Ost. It actually makes me kind of worried how Rishia will take whatever happens to Ost in the end .

Who in their right mind would willingly live on top of a possible moving stone kaiju that eats peoples' souls? Although I guess it makes more sense if they worship the darn thing, but I can't say I'm surprised they're all dead .

Raphtalia getting bad flashbacks to what happened to her village while Eclair feels guilty because of her family's inability to have prevented that from happening, but Raphtalia's not going to let that get her or Eclair down .

Rishia is actually useful! She may not be super combat proficient, but she can read ancient text .

So the "ancient hero script" is actually just Japanese? So, what, every Cardinal Hero summoned was always Japanese? Or was it just this one? Was Keiichi the previous Shield Hero ?

So not only is the queen a Fillolial fangirl but she's willing to risk her life for historical artifacts. Respectable, if a little dangerous .

It's a shame Naofumi had to send the queen, Eclair, and Baba away but I guess it makes sense that it would just come down to him and his party...including Rishia who doesn't want to be left behind and wants to really contribute and be a part of his party, for the sake of the party and not just for Itsuki. I think this is an important moment for her character development .

If you weren't suspicious of these three random adventurers before or the fact that the main guy was using a scythe and sounded like Jun Fukuyama...it turns out it's L'arc and the other worlds' heroes, presumably there to help stop the Tortoise on their own terms so the Wave can start again. And is that Glass in twintails and wearing something other than her kimono? I need to see this in full .

[stray]

Originally Posted by GDB

Considering all these gripes are things that were evident by the end of season 1, I doubt dropping it as being considered at all or they wouldn't have even started season 2.

You never know, I've seen people bitching on Reddit and elsewhere about how disappointing S2 is.

Anyway, Rishia finally got a better introduction in ep 4 and finally feels like part of the team. Disappointingly however she didn't even "fweh" or "kweh" this episode. And L'arc, Therese, and Glass finally showed up so S2 can properly begin.

[Dengar]

Well, the way I see it, which I believe is the correct way to see it, is that the slave seal has simply been co opted by the hero who is no longer using it for its original purpose, but for something beneficial. There is nothing to really "justify" because there are no negative consequences. It does however, require a degree of trust from those he puts the seal on... And trust happens to be one of the running themes of Naofumi's character arc.

As for this episode. I actually liked it. The first time it didn't feel rushed.

[Kanon]

Now that she has been given a backstory and has also become more assertive, Rishia is suddenly a lot more likable. I'm not sure why she thought the other heroes would be there. It had already started moving when they departed, right? How would they have ended up on its back? Then again, Glass and friends are there, so... could have just climbed.

Originally Posted by Frontier

So the "ancient hero script" is actually just Japanese? So, what, every Cardinal Hero summoned was always Japanese? Or was it just this one? Was Keiichi the previous Shield Hero ?

It is common knowledge Truck-kun only operates in Japan. No, seriously, how many isekai'd gaijins can you name?

As for this story in particular, all four come from Japan, no reason for it to have been different for past heroes. The Queen even said that this was the Heroes' glyphs. The funniest part is probably that they don't even come from the same world, but they're still all Japanese.

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by Kanon

It is common knowledge Truck-kun only operates in Japan. No, seriously, how many isekai'd gaijins can you name?

As for this story in particular, all four come from Japan, no reason for it to have been different for past heroes. The Queen even said that this was the Heroes' glyphs. The funniest part is probably that they don't even come from the same world, but they're still all Japanese.

This reminds me of Cautious Hero where Ristarte was going through all those names for Hero candidates and they were generic Japanese names .