Hayate no Gotoku manga (raw discussion only)

[Bastion_Arcion]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

No, Hina said that her blood parents ran off and piled the debt on her similar to Hayate's background. Hina was just adopted by another family, and that's when her normal life set in.

Um.. you wanna give some evidence for that?
We saw Yukiji dealing with the debt the Katsura sisters had, and then convincing the Katsura's to take them in. Hinagiku didn't seem to have anything to do with that part of the story, and we were told this during Hinagiku's b-day arc.

Also that Hinagiku still loves her birth parents, despite them running out.

[M.A.D]

Originally Posted by Bastion_Arcion

I believe she refers to her living with her parents as being depicted as such as well, the barrette and a single biscuit instead of a cake for her b-days, but her hairstyle says that they weren't that badly off.

You forget Chiharu's parents, they stuck with her quite a while longer, but they still left her after burning down their house.
Isumi and Sakuya may still have their families, but they don't do much better than having not been there at all.
Parental Abandonment is apparently large in all anime/manga according to the page there.

Actually, the single biscuit was for Hayate's birthday. The final birthday gift from her biological parents was a hairpin. From what we can see about the interactions between Hina, Yukiji, and her mother, she's pretty much happy with her current family.

In my opinion, Hinagiku fits both "poor childhood" and "normal childhood", because she seemed content with her real parents before they left, and she is content with her current parents. However, the time between was full of harship, as mentioned in the Cafe' burglar arc, Hinagiku still remembered her and Yukiji sleeping in the park. Those particular harships could also be the major factor that formed her strict and aim-for-the-best personality now

Chiharu's parents didn't abandon her. It's just that their business plan of moving to a tropical island was too absurd for her taste, and so she decided to stay in Japan instead. Chiharu is still receiving allowances and school fees, so she doesn't fit that trope

[Bastion_Arcion]

Originally Posted by M.A.D

In my opinion, Hinagiku fits both "poor childhood" and "normal childhood", because she seemed content with her real parents before they left, and she is content with her current parents. However, the time between was full of harship, as mentioned in the Cafe' burglar arc, Hinagiku still remembered her and Yukiji sleeping in the park. Those particular harships could also be the major factor that formed her strict and aim-for-the-best personality now

I think it's implied (no evidence for now) that Hinagiku and Yukiji's parents were the owners of the cafe where Hayate and the others now work part-time previously, that wouldn't support the hint that they're poor, but maybe it's where they got the debt they left behind.
I think that the hairclip was given to her before her parents last attendance of her b-day (she's wearing it in the scene that seemed to be the last b-day), and I'd thought the biscuit had Hinagiku behind it in the flashback.
I think she's implied to have the personality before the hardships of the debt happened upon her, Miki gained her friendship in the cram school, which I don't believe Hinagiku is said to have attended after her parents abandoned her and the Katsura's adopted her, she moved to the lower levels of the school that makes up the secondary scene of the story.

Originally Posted by M.A.D

Chiharu's parents didn't abandon her. It's just that their business plan of moving to a tropical island was too absurd for her taste, and so she decided to stay in Japan instead. Chiharu is still receiving allowances and school fees, so she doesn't fit that trope

I believe Chiharu is supporting herself, that's what she took the maid job (as Haru) to do afterall, and Sakuya is rich enough to pay her well for the job to make her self-supporting. Chiharu tried to move out before they moved, and I seem to remember her parents saying something about abandoning her before the fire, and then disappearing after saying goodbye to her when the house is burning.

Nagi and Sakuya seem to be the only ones who are receiving money while not living with their family. Nagi implicitly stated that Mikado is still paying her allowance and her school fees from Mikado after the Golden Week fiasco, and Sakuya because her family is still in her life, but it's implied that she's been away from her family since practically birth.

[AnimeFangirl]

Originally Posted by Bastion_Arcion

I believe Chiharu is supporting herself, that's what she took the maid job (as Haru) to do afterall, and Sakuya is rich enough to pay her well for the job to make her self-supporting.

IIRC what happened was that Chiharu's mom told her they were going bankrupt, so Chiharu found a job. Later on it turned out they weren't going bankrupt after all, but Chiharu decided to keep the job anyway.

Originally Posted by Bastion_Arcion

Nagi implicitly stated that Mikado is still paying her allowance and her school fees from Mikado after the Golden Week fiasco

IIRC Mikado explicitly paid her school fees in full and explicitly cut her off from any other form of financial support. Her last allowance was 20 million yen, which she poured into the stock market after Klaus gave them the house for free.

[Bastion_Arcion]

Originally Posted by Dorfl

IIRC what happened was that Chiharu's mom told her they were going bankrupt, so Chiharu found a job. Later on it turned out they weren't going bankrupt after all, but Chiharu decided to keep the job anyway.

The job that Chiharu took at that point was in a maid cafe. I would think that Sakuya would pay a personal maid better than one for a cafe.

Originally Posted by Dorfl

IIRC Mikado explicitly paid her school fees in full and explicitly cut her off from any other form of financial support. Her last allowance was 20 million yen, which she poured into the stock market after Klaus gave them the house for free.

It wasn't stated that Mikado was cutting her off completely, just that she wasn't going to be recognized as the inheritor anymore. He does hold some favor for her, allowing Maria and Hayate to continue to work under her is sign enough of that.
20 million yen might not have been enough to pay for Hayate's continued schooling (I believe only Nagi's schooling is said to be covered by Mikado), it's really not that much, and Nagi playing the stock market with the leftover of that just makes sense given her background and makes sense for an allowance, continually.
Nagi had called nearly 1 million yen 'chump change' when that much was given to Hayate for his three night stay outside the mansion, twenty times that is hardly a drop in the bucket compared to the Sanzenin fortune.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by Bastion_Arcion

The job that Chiharu took at that point was in a maid cafe. I would think that Sakuya would pay a personal maid better than one for a cafe.


It wasn't stated that Mikado was cutting her off completely, just that she wasn't going to be recognized as the inheritor anymore. He does hold some favor for her, allowing Maria and Hayate to continue to work under her is sign enough of that.

Is that really Mikado's choice? Hayate was directly employed under Nagi. Maria was also asked to go back to Mikado, but she refused.

[Bastion_Arcion]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

Is that really Mikado's choice? Hayate was directly employed under Nagi. Maria was also asked to go back to Mikado, but she refused.

Maria used to work under Mikado before she went to Nagi, seems to me that Maria is in the employ of Mikado still, especially since she had to actively refuse to return to him, Hayate's employment was authorized by Klaus, he was probably employed by the Sanzenin estate as well.
Nagi doesn't have the money to pay them the salary they had as when she was the inheritor, so it seems that they're only continuing to work for her out of loyalty. It hasn't been called out, but it doesn't seem likely that Hayate's debt is still going to take him only forty years to pay off anymore, I wonder if he even gets pocket change anymore.
Klaus' leaving after he was called by Mikado was probably more of his being demoted to extra than anything else.

Mikado even mentioned that Athena might take on Hayate's debt if the stone was broken.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by Bastion_Arcion

Maria used to work under Mikado before she went to Nagi, seems to me that Maria is in the employ of Mikado still, especially since she had to actively refuse to return to him, Hayate's employment was authorized by Klaus, he was probably employed by the Sanzenin estate as well.
Nagi doesn't have the money to pay them the salary they had as when she was the inheritor, so it seems that they're only continuing to work for her out of loyalty. It hasn't been called out, but it doesn't seem likely that Hayate's debt is still going to take him only forty years to pay off anymore, I wonder if he even gets pocket change anymore.
Klaus' leaving after he was called by Mikado was probably more of his being demoted to extra than anything else.

Mikado even mentioned that Athena might take on Hayate's debt if the stone was broken.

I was asking if Mikado could really force Hayate to leave Nagi if Hayate simply refused to do so. I doubt it.

Also, considering how Nagi repaid the Yukuza in full already, I don't think Hayate is required to get monetary payment from Nagi and could be working off his debt under credit. Hayate could be working for Nagi without getting paid at all.

[Bastion_Arcion]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

I was asking if Mikado could really force Hayate to leave Nagi if Hayate simply refused to do so. I doubt it.

Also, considering how Nagi repaid the Yukuza in full already, I don't think Hayate is required to get monetary payment from Nagi and could be working off his debt under credit. Hayate could be working for Nagi without getting paid at all.

Mikado could have done so if he wanted to, he just probably saw, through Hayate's interaction with Athena, that he didn't. He might have been able to force Nagi to give him up though.
Since the monetary debt was dealt with early in the manga, I can't remember for sure, but 'Money the Mask' did imply that Hayate would be repaying the debt in full to Nagi instead, with no interest (the 'very nice men' probably would have insisted on an interest payment instead).
He's also said several times that he gets some pocket change from his working as a butler, how do you think he got the gifts for Nagi, Maria and the ingredients for the cookies he made Hinagiku for her b-day, plus his paying for his date with her, he specifically asked for train fare afterwords because he'd spent all the rest of his money. And the White Day cookies he'd bought for Ayumu was done with his own money.
He has his part-time job at the cafe that might be providing some funds, but those haven't seemed to have been touched on.
I wanna say they are more examples, but can't think of anymore.

[AnimeFangirl]

I am pretty sure the 20 million yen Nagi has is the last money she will ever get from Mikado.

I am also pretty sure about Chiharu's parents not going bankrupt after all and Chiharu just keeping the job because she likes it.

[Bastion_Arcion]

Originally Posted by Dorfl

I am pretty sure the 20 million yen Nagi has is the last money she will ever get from Mikado.

I believe the 20 million was referred to as 'allowance'. Usually allowance is on some sort of cycle, and Mikado is hinted at showing a little favor to Nagi, so it's unlikely she's completely cut off from the Sanzenin family, just not the inheritor anymore.
Don't know who is though.. Sakuya?

Originally Posted by Dorfl

I am also pretty sure about Chiharu's parents not going bankrupt after all and Chiharu just keeping the job because she likes it.

Chiharu's parents are moving to somewhere to work at a job that caused them to burn down their house here, if they're not bankrupt, they're probably close to it.
I think it's pretty safe to say that Chiharu is supporting herself now. And there's no reason to believe she wouldn't be well able to, considering she works for Sakuya, who might be the Sanzenin inheritor now, or at least one of the descendents (her parents might get to it first), and thus would inherit both her family's fortune and the Sanzenin eventually.
Question would be, why doesn't Chiharu live in Sakuya's mansion, since she's her maid?

[AnimeFangirl]

I'm pretty sure the 20 million was specified to be her final allowance. I'm too lazy to go back and read it, though. If she was getting regular infusions of 20 million yen, they wouldn't have anything to worry about, would they?

Chiharu is paying her own rent and food, but it has not been stated that Chiharu's parents are no longer paying her school fees. She can't be considered fully self-supporting without that.

She doesn't live there because she's more like a personal assistant than a live-in maid.

[Bastion_Arcion]

Originally Posted by Dorfl

I'm pretty sure the 20 million was specified to be her final allowance. I'm too lazy to go back and read it, though. If she was getting regular infusions of 20 million yen, they wouldn't have anything to worry about, would they?

For Nagi, getting an allowance of 20 million is like you getting $20 weekly allowance. She still seems to have the same mindset about buying games and manga, I doubt it's going to change much.

Originally Posted by Dorfl

Chiharu is paying her own rent and food, but it has not been stated that Chiharu's parents are no longer paying her school fees. She can't be considered fully self-supporting without that.

She doesn't live there because she's more like a personal assistant than a live-in maid.

Her parents don't seem to be doing well financially, and it looks like they don't worry about Chiharu any, so it's probable that she's paying for it all instead of asking for help from her parents anymore.

The chapter where she was hired as the personal maid implied Chiharu would be essentially taking over the 'maid' duties of Sakuya's butlers as their master grew into a young woman, they were notably uneasy with continuing to act as such while she.. grew.
That would tend to be indicative of a live-in maid more than personal assistant.
'Course, have seen live-in maid functions served by people who live in their own houses in other media as well, but it would mean she probably wouldn't need to pay for rent and food.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Bastion_Arcion

For Nagi, getting an allowance of 20 million is like you getting $20 weekly allowance. She still seems to have the same mindset about buying games and manga, I doubt it's going to change much.

If the most expensive average cost per item was three cents, maybe. Even a new PSP would only be like 40,000 yen max. A game about 6,000 yen. Manga about 400-500 yen. None of those are even close to 1% of that 20million. It's not like an insane number of games and systems come out every week, or even every month.

[Bastion_Arcion]

Originally Posted by GDB

If the most expensive average cost per item was three cents, maybe. Even a new PSP would only be like 40,000 yen max. A game about 6,000 yen. Manga about 400-500 yen. None of those are even close to 1% of that 20million. It's not like an insane number of games and systems come out every week, or even every month.

You forget that earlier in the manga, Nagi referred to nearly 1 million yen as chump change. Given the overwhelming feel of ojou-ness in the manga, it's likely that this sentiment carries over to most of the rest of the cast as well.
She also has to support food, shelter and utilities for herself, Hayate, Maria, Chiharu, Hinagiku and Alice with that same amount remember, we don't know what she's charging for rent, but at the beginning it didn't sound like she'd be able to cover those with a reasonable rent charge. So that is probably coming out of the 20 million as well.

And she's using the extra to play the stock market.

[GDB]

Doesn't negate my statement refuting your "Her 20million = your $20" statement.

And yeah, we don't know what she's charging for rent, but she isn't stupid. This much has been established many times. She's not going to go into the red for no reason. She may only break even or get slightly over costs at the moment, but she certainly isn't "paying" anyone to live there other than Hayate and Maria.

[Bastion_Arcion]

Originally Posted by GDB

Doesn't negate my statement refuting your "Her 20million = your $20" statement.

And yeah, we don't know what she's charging for rent, but she isn't stupid. This much has been established many times. She's not going to go into the red for no reason. She may only break even or get slightly over costs at the moment, but she certainly isn't "paying" anyone to live there other than Hayate and Maria.

She may not want to go into the red, but Hayate and Maria made it clear before they got any residents that it was going to be difficult not to, and they're not likely to be trying hard, not with Maria doing the shopping at least.

Nagi could easily find things she wanted and pay for them without realizing she's got limited funds now. That's never been countered but once when she was concerned about her first paycheck from the cafe.
She's only got the barest grasp of what is reasonable expense, thus 20 million is a pittance.
Mikado probably wouldn't have an issue giving that much away daily.

[AnimeFangirl]

All this points to the 20 million being the last allowance she'll ever get. If it wasn't, their discussion would turn to making the 20 million last until she got the next installment. They wouldn't need to rent the rooms out to tenants either, since they can survive for years on that 20 million (almost $250,000) if they are frugal.

Since it's instead a matter of "how are we going to survive", I strongly believe Nagi's allowance has been cut off. I also strongly believe that if I wasn't so lazy and actually bothered to check the earlier chapters, I could prove this.

[Bastion_Arcion]

Originally Posted by Dorfl

All this points to the 20 million being the last allowance she'll ever get. If it wasn't, their discussion would turn to making the 20 million last until she got the next installment. They wouldn't need to rent the rooms out to tenants either, since they can survive for years on that 20 million (almost $250,000) if they are frugal.

Nagi was planning on using the entire 20 million to purchase their new housing, which they needed immediately. When she was gifted the apartment by Klaus, they went to finding another way to use it. If it was the last allowance, they wouldn't have thought about using it all at once.
This is Nagi, I don't think she knows what frugal means. Not to mention Maria. Maria is the one who told Hayate to use all of the million she gave him, in three days. He was the one arguing that he could make a decent life for himself for years.

Originally Posted by Dorfl

Since it's instead a matter of "how are we going to survive", I strongly believe Nagi's allowance has been cut off. I also strongly believe that if I wasn't so lazy and actually bothered to check the earlier chapters, I could prove this.

Nagi and Maria never went into 'how are we going to survive' mode, and since Hayate knows them by now, it didn't appear he went into it either.
He only went into that mode very early on in the manga, before he knew Nagi and Maria very well.

[Used Can]

I don't know what the current discussion is about, but I'd use 20 million for porn.
Just sayin'...