Romance in Macross

[golthin]

Originally Posted by MaiHikari

LOL
"atashi"? didn't know you swing that way, Tak.

hehehe! he probably didn't realize that "atashi" is the Female form or "Watashi".
A male can use "watashi", but you will never hear a straight male use "atashi"

[Natsuki Hyuga]

Originally Posted by BleachOD

Instead of harping on the Bleach comparison. Why don't you tackle everything else I said?

You guys were making several Bleach comparisons. Don't discredit them because they work in my camps favor and not yours.

@Crusader. Weren't your words on the blog.."We are waiting for you to finish. Ranka is the Orihime of Macross"?
All the users I know from the Bleach forums, made comparisons. I don't see why I can't do the same. If that's all you have to say, I will not get insulted. I will just think you didn't have anything better to say
(I have users quotes saved)

DE-NIAL...Is not a river in Egypt

So you need more evidence...*Chuckles* Aye Aye sir!

Because BLEACH comparison = UTTER PHAILURE From the romance angle. And basically everything.

Since when? Oh, Page... 5. Or so.

Hmmm... Crusader is not a member here, yes?

And this is Macross, not Bleach. That's all. Comparison does not work much here. Especially from Bleach *sigh*

Tomorrow WOULD be FUN...

No, we don't need more crazy and full of hole evidences thank you very much. Keep it to yourself please kthx.

[Von Himmel]

hehehe! he probably didn't realize that "atashi" is the Female form or "Watashi".
A male can use "watashi", but you will never hear a straight male use "atashi"

Because there's a seme and uke in yaoi lolz.
For example, if there's AltoxOzma pairing, Ozma would be the 'boy' and Alto would be the. .

xD

*run away

[Natsuki Hyuga]

Originally Posted by golthin

hehehe! he probably didn't realize that "atashi" is the Female form or "Watashi".
A male can use "watashi", but you will never hear a straight male use "atashi"

Sorry Golthin, but Tak is definitely a good Japanese speaker. It is intentional in his part.

And not straight male would also use "ore", "boku", etc...

[BetoJR]

@OD: tl;dr
And, honestly, you do seem to rehash the same points over and over, while ignoring the bits that don't help your reasoning. I mean, who told Alto to visit Sheryl in episode 24, or earlier at the hospital? I sure as heck didn't see anyone.
As for their "hiding" their relationship, I can think of several reasons, but I don't think there would be much of a point to it. After all, the show ends tomorrow, so... why bother arguing, when one camp or the other will probably be victorious beyond a shadow of a doubt then?

<-- And, c'mon, do those eyes really look sad to you?

[golthin]

Originally Posted by BleachOD

Ok since this post is big as hell I will end it here. We will look at all the signals that are indicative of Alto choosing Ranka. You can't discount past episodes just because they were not in your favor. Without the past there is NO FUTURE. That applies to character development as well

you have many good points in your post! you might want next time to watch the length of your sentences, it is a pain to have to scroll to the right to read the long ones. I know that there were a lot of people that kept saying that Alto didn't have any romantic feelings for Ranka. I have always disagreed with them. The problem is that Alto also has feelings for Sheryl, he made a promise to her and Alto is the type of guy that won't go back on his word. RankaxAlto can happen but it will be such a heartbreaking thing for Alto to leave sheryl. IT is a matter of which of the two girls need Alto the most. Like in SDFM, Hayase needed Hikaru more than Minmay so in the end he choose her. When you love two people that same way, most people usually choose the person that needs them the most. After episode 21, what you call the "goodbye", Ranka and Alto became impossible! Ranka removed herself from the LT, The LT doesn't exist anymore! It is over, done for! there is not longer a LT in this show after episode 21.

Originally Posted by Natsuki Hyuga

Sorry Golthin, but Tak is definitely a good Japanese speaker. It is intentional in his part.

And not straight male would also use "ore", "boku", etc...

I might be misinterpretating the meaning of the above sentence. Are you agreeeing that "straight" males use "Ore" "boku" or that they don't? If you read it again, it sounds to me like you are saying that they wouldn't. you might want to place a comma after the "and not".

[Natsuki Hyuga]

Originally Posted by golthin

I might be misinterpretating the meaning of the above sentence. Are you agreeeing that "straight" males use "Ore" "boku" or that they don't? If you read it again it sounds to me like you are saying that they wouldn't. you might want to place a comma after the "and not".

Oh dear, I need to explain it in a better way too, huh...?

What I mean is that EVEN not straight male uses "ore", "boku" and all the manly interpretation of I. Yes, straight one uses "ore" and "boku" too. I'm not disagreeing with your post, just to make sure it would be clearer, hun.

[golthin]

Originally Posted by Natsuki Hyuga

Oh dear, I need to explain it in a better way too, huh...?

What I mean is that EVEN not straight male uses "ore", "boku" and all the manly interpretation of I. Yes, straight one uses "ore" and "boku" too. I'm not disagreeing with your post, just to make sure it would be clearer, hun.

i thought so, sometime if you miss a comma in a key place, some sentences can have a different meaning. I have been guilty of that too.

[Teletha]

Okay with pictures now.



>>>>>>I LOVE RANKA!!>>>>>>>

Yeah, that's logical. Tomorrow will be fun. One way or the other.

And for the last time, Bleach and Macross are not the same thing. Bleach is obvious, unless you are dumb or just don't like Ichigo x Rukia (which I didn't really when I read it years ago). Your view of Sheryl is warped.

The chances of everything working out next episode for Ranka x Alto is slim to none. They have show a fundamental lack of understanding for each other, an inability to actually move forward even though there were obvious feelings there and a long separation where both have changed . If they couldn't work things out when they saw each other everyday and had feelings for each other what's the hope now? Their lives are different now and their small knowledge of each other is even smaller now. Then factor in Sheryl and their relationship. Not many are saying they didn't like each other, but it's over and done with. When she left and he didn't follow, she removed herself from the triangle. Blaming Sheryl's illness for him not leaving doesn't work.

There might be a surprise Ranka x Alto ending, but it's highly unlikely given what we have been shown. The past is important, but you only think half of it (the Ranka half that is) is worthy of mentioning. The Alto x Sheryl past is about Ranka, too I guess. If Alto loved Ranka so much, had such blatant jealous, and can't stop thinking about her even when he has Sheryl's tongue down his throat, why aren't they together now? You either must think Alto is a total idiot, or a jerk. Take your pick.

[MaiHikari]

Originally Posted by golthin

IT is a matter of which of the two girls need Alto the most. Like in SDFM, Hayase needed Hikaru more than Minmay so in the end he choose her. When you love two people that same way, most people usually choose the person that needs them the most. After episode 21, what you call the "goodbye", Ranka and Alto became impossible! Ranka removed herself from the LT, The LT doesn't exist anymore! It is over, done for! there is not longer a LT in this show after episode 21.

Wrong! Misa didn't need Hikaru more. She has career and she can leave Earth to follow her career. It was Minmay who was clinging to Hikaru because Kaifung was such an asshole. Minmay was not independent. She can't survive without people by her side. That's why she stayed with Kaifung even though she didn't love him anymore. But when she saw Hikaru again, she ditched Kaifung. It was Minmay who needed Hikaru more, but it was Misa who Hikaru chose and loves.

Love is not a charity, it never has been. I don't think that's the message Kawamori is trying to convey. That's why the LT didn't end in ep 21. That's why it's all the more important for Ranka to be saved and Sheryl to be curred. So Alto can properly give Sheryl an answer without Ranka being the enemy and her dying. Alto already answered Sheryl, but she wants these factors removed and hear his answer once again. (It's in Northern Cross lyrics too.)

[BleachOD]

Note: screams of failure without saying why. Circular arguments about the way I phrased a sentence. or complaints about post length, instead of attacking my argument gives me a win by default


This is just a few of the many examples I have. I could show all day, but I won't. You will appreciate my genius when 25 airs

Those pictures are to keep you from denying the truth Not that it will help much.Since DENIAL IS BIG IN MACROSSI don't like to post without evidence of my pairing. It's why I am legend in the Bleach forums. And I actually have a real reason to hate Orihime. I don't hate characters that are not a threat to my OTP. In this case it would be Sheryl
Let's play game called...;

Ask Alto...
Okay let's play a game of "Ask Alto?"

This came about because of two reasons. One I realized you aren't really paying him any attention. Alto is a straightforward guy he doesn't pull any punches.

Two because of your responses when I said this

Originally Posted by BleachOverdose

What I believe is a BIG misconception: (I have seen this mentioned a few times) “Alto’s being pressured into responsibility for Ranka.”

No; he assumed that responsibility on his own. Since he first met her he’d decided that he would be her rock.

He tells Michel this “It’s an obligation…More like my duty”
No one forced Ranka onto Alto he chose the responsibility himself. Like I said before he’s dependent on
Ranka…He needs to be her rock. (So he can feel like he still has some his tama left…if you know what I mean)

That was a response to a question Michel had asked him...
1. What was Alto doing at the time that prompted Michel to ask him that question?



Aside from the Psychobabble . Let's just examine what Alto really meant when he said. "I have a promise to keep. It’s an obligation…More like my duty”


Here is a guy who is beautiful. Cursed by that beauty, because he gets treated like a ...for lack of a better word "Bitch". He's primping in the mirror. Trying to look his best for the Ms. Macross Competition. Because a certain little green-haired loli told him "I know I can do it if you are there" (Or something to the effect)
So Michel says this...
"All dressed up...Date?"
Alto's reply ..."I have a promise to keep. It’s an obligation…More like my duty”
"I have a promise to keep..." But that wasn't quite right. So he said..."It’s an obligation…" But he doesn't feel obligated to her. So that was not quite right either. So he said "More like my duty”.
What you guys are failing to realize is what Alto really meant by that statement. What he was saying was for him it IS NOT that trivial. Not a mere date. It's more than than that. He decided for himself that he'd be responsible for her happiness, for her protection, because he wants to!
Seriously, All she has to do is call him and he comes running. Unless he cannot. Do you know how many examples I have of them on the phone?! *With Sheryl. Twice but on doesn't count because he didn't hear her.*

Did you guys ever notice that both Ranka and Sheryl asked Alto a similar question but got different answers?

Sheryl

Ranka

Right then and there if he wanted to be free from the "Pressure of Ranka" he could have. Yet Sheryl gets a flat out..."You don't want to be with me? "NO it's a pain" On the other hand Ranka gets " Alto-kun I wanted to you to be the first to know *Thinks about seeing him with Sheryl* But I thought I shouldn't bother you... Alto: "Why are you still so hesitant?"

What the hell?! You can't see a difference yet? No?

ALTO'S BEHAVIOR



Isn't this a picture perfect sight? Romantic and don't they look beautiful?

Did you get past the looks and pay attention to ALTO?

For one thing he's not happy to be with her. Look at him

To add the icing on MY cake was this..

"oh Alto this is how we first met..."

Alto's reply...

" Let's GO BACK Are you happy now?"
Damn that was cold he totally dismissed her. Look how unhappy he is because she says not yet? Click the thumbnails and watch his grimace.

This looks like the beginning of a beautiful love story. NOT!

Did you noticed that in all their moments it's usually shown from Sheryl's perspective or, Ranka, or Alto's mother plays third wheel?

Alto's Sexual Awareness of Ranka

.
Did you notice Sheryl didn't have on panties (above)Alto didn't bat an eye?

However is Ranka's not wearing any panties he acts like this
.

We call this "Playing your position"


"She tells him she will send him tickets to her farwell concert. He promises to come. She kisses him. He's shocked but as she walks away he gives her a tender look. She just played her position right there. She said "I'll be waiting" Looks like they are getting somewhere right?

But what does Alto do?

He ask Ranka out to said concert. Where Sheryl is waiting for him. Had he not had to go out on duty. He would have been there with Ranka.
When asked about Ranka he does the reverse...

*Episode 6*Again here...he looks uncomfortable and then lies about being with Sheryl. Why?
And why did he lie? Why did he feel the need to lie to Ranka? How come he couldn't admit he was with Sheryl the day before?
He could have just told her truth.
.
That's another thing he came to island with Sheryl but what does he do?

"Where's Ranka?" <--looks for Ranka.

After he finds her ...Ranka is on the Beach and where is Alto?

...right behind her worrying over her. The whole time he talks to Sheryl he only takes his eyes off of her once.

CAUGHT WITH HIS HAND IN THE COOKIE JAR.

Ever notice that when it comes to Sheryl, Alto always acts as if he's caught doing wrong? He is also quick to explain his actions.

UNLIKE WITH RANKA...He turns his head and clams up and asks "Why do you bring Ranka up"...
Except that one time with Sheryl, however his actions belied his words.<--lying to her as if he was a guilty boyfriend



Here he does it on the Island. *episode 10*

he looks uncomfortable and then looks at Ranka when She asks "Why are you here?" He immediately start explaining"It was an Order"



*Episode 19* the triangler ...Sheryl falls on Alto<--For the umpteenth time (Like how many times is that going to happen?!) Ranka sees it. Look at his face.

He does it again in *Episode 15*
Here

I think he actively chose Sheryl after episode 15, although the exact moment at which he did so still eludes me.

It eludes me too! Because I think it was quite clear in that episode.(That an many others) He has already chosen Ranka. Let's take it from the top...

After Ranka's rescue by Brera. When episode begins Alto sees Ranka FIRST. Coincidence? Why did he visit her first? "You're as beautiful as ever...;" He takes her to see Sheryl and then as they talk in the hallway.

If you pay close attention to Alto from this point on...


You can clearly see. Alto hardly ever. took his eyes off Ranka. Even when addressing Sheryl. He seemed to be trying to placate Ranka's feelings and not so much with Sheryl. His back was turned to her; most of the time he stared at Ranka or the screen which was playing Ranka singing

When Sheryl' couldn't stand the attention Ranka was getting. She started singing (Trying to steal the girl's shine) Listen to the way Alto says Ranka. Every time Sheryl impressed him briefly Ranka outdid her...


Do you realize in that moment Ranka was just as beautiful to him as Sheryl was?
Alto guiltily looks at Ranka (Again)
Not only this time but he does that quite frequently...


*THEY SPEND A LOT OF TIME ONE THE PHONE*
[IMG=http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/5374/altowantstoseehertoo3kq9.th.jpg]
Ranka and Alto are on the phone (They seem to do this a lot )
Ranka apologizes for not being able to visit him in the hospital. (When he saved Luca)

Alto teases her and says "No one said you had to" Sounds cold right? However he adds "But as a newcomer aren't you being to cocky pretending that you're too busy?" Translation..."I want to see you too.". What do you get out of that?



Check this out...
[
Alto just agreed that he would like to fly forever with Ranka. Looked damn happy as he said it too! Forever=Eternity...Hmmm?



Look at his choice of words here.


Don't you find it peculiar he used "Adulterer" and not "Thief" or something of that nature? Is it because he sees Ranka as a romantic interest? Does he himself as hers, hence the feeling he's sneaking in to see his own "Girl"? *Note: This is yet another time Ranka called Alto for support and HE CAME. Scaled a WALL to do so*

Alto was asked twice about his reasons for becoming a SMS Pilot (He didn't have to join the military to achieve his dream.) Michel questioned his commitment and Ozma gives him 24 hours to think about it.


What happens to help him make the most important decision?

He hears a song... He runs and finds who; Ranka. That meeting on "That Hill" <--Their Hill That forever changes his life. Meeting her, Saving her

This time Ozma begs him to protect Ranka.(Like he's her lover or husband
<--Nod as in yes?
While Alto is is pondering this. He remembers the above scenes.
.
He says "Protect ...Huh" Then remembers "Think about it carefully. About what You want to do. What you want to fight for and what are you willing to risk."
He doesn't say it this time...however he sees Ranka

What happens again?

When Alto answers...
When Ranka is attacked by the Vajira. He makes the decision to TAKE OVER the role as her # 1 protector (pardon the pun :P) At that point Brera made him look like he wasn't needed to protect her anyway. --><--real reason he resents Brera.

Alto cried because he saw Ranka cry. Not because she was suffering a terminal illness; just because she cried.



The thing that baffles me is how you guys could fail to notice or just disregard entirely. I could sit here and show you all day.


We call this

Spoiler for Clicky:

"HEAD CRACK!"

You don't have to agree, I will win anyway.

Laughing last and the HARDEST

[evil|plushie]

Poor bleachOD, no one wants to or has the inclination to play with her so she has to imagine she has a default win -_- Well, whatever. Think the rest of us are just waiting for tomorrows episode.

[Joachim]

okay OD... i know how you feel, when you are talking to a shipper from another ship, everything you view as an A you will find out that they were thinking about B, and so is the people from another ship that view your A as a B, we are reaching stalemate because no one is giving out in this argument

The scene where you view alto was sad when kissed by sheryl.. well i view nothing that sort of sad emotion coming from him (well you can't exactly convince me and i can't convince you either)

and your comment about sheryl kissing alto "when you kissed a guy and he lets you that doesn't mean he loved you", oh ok but that also doesn't mean he didn't love you either. get my point?

And oh.. sheryl was thinking about alto's feeling for ranka..and sheryl always affirms of alto's feeling to ranka? oh well ranka is undoubtedly also feel jealousy over alto and sheryl... even say goodbye and said "i loved you" when she didn't even know alto could possibly have feeling for her too. Long short story, both girls are confused and they don't know whether alto will choose them or not, the thing is sheryl isn't giving up on him yet will ranka did (oh and you will say , sheryl did give up on alto on eps 24.. if you say that, give me proofs, nothing in sheryl's word there express her giving up as clear as ranka's one)

soo well duh, different perspective is common between different shipper, but don't worry this show will end soon, and we will see whose perspective was right or wrong, cheers

[evil|plushie]

Shipping wars never end -_- Especially not just because the series ended

[Joachim]

ah damn you post another one and i didn't reply to that one, but all is the same, whatever your view of A, i think of B, nonetheless.

i'll just pick one ok? because further argument will be pointless it will be me shouting "B" and you shouting "A"

"This time Ozma begs him to protect Ranka.(Like he's her lover or husband" i'll counter using your argument last time.. when a boy protect a girl, that doesn't always mean he loved her.. and of course you can say , but that doesn't mean he didn't love her, once again different perspective

[Joachim]

Originally Posted by evil|plushie

Shipping wars never end -_- Especially not just because the series ended

yea at least we will have a winner and a loser, further war is pointless after that anyway

[golthin]

Originally Posted by MaiHikari

Love is not a charity, it never has been. I don't think that's the message Kawamori is trying to convey. That's why the LT didn't end in ep 21. That's why it's all the more important for Ranka to be saved and Sheryl to be curred. So Alto can properly give Sheryl an answer without Ranka being the enemy and her dying. Alto already answered Sheryl, but she wants these factors removed and hear his answer once again. (It's in Northern Cross lyrics too.)

are you a sheryl's shipper? I am amazed that there still Sheryl's shippers that believe that the LT isn't over. I guess I understimated the effects of episode 23 rooftop conversation between Alto and Klan. Really, you do believe that there is still a LT going? that Alto still have romantic feelings for Ranka after all that has happened? Because that is the only way that Ranka has a chance.

[BetoJR]

Ranka still has a chance if Sheryl's not around. Even then, I'd believe it to be a very slim chance.

But I totally agree with MaiHikari on another point: love is not a charity. It's not bestowed upon who needs it the most. At least, not in the eyes of everyone that matters, even more when more than two people are involved.

[Natsuki Hyuga]

Originally Posted by golthin

are you a sheryl's shipper? I am amazed that there still Sheryl's shippers that believe that the LT isn't over. I guess I understimated the effects of episode 23 rooftop conversation between Alto and Klan. Really, you do believe that there is still a LT going? that Alto still have romantic feelings for Ranka after all that has happened? Because that is the only way that Ranka has a chance.

golthin, every people has their own view of the triangle. And it is quite debatable that we don't really know about Alto feeling at this point. The slim chance of Ranka winning actually come from the director's cleverness of hiding Alto's feeling. So until Alto himself has given concrete evidence of his feeling (be it by confession, etc), we are not really sure that LT has ended. Anyway, try not to shove your opinion completely to others, since we all think differently here

[Teletha]

OD, you probably would have been better spending your time posting this a long time ago when we had no Ranka shippers here to argue with. Less then 24 hours away and we have all our answers.

Originally Posted by golthin

are you a sheryl's shipper? I am amazed that there still Sheryl's shippers that believe that the LT isn't over. I guess I understimated the effects of episode 23 rooftop conversation between Alto and Klan. Really, you do believe that there is still a LT going? that Alto still have romantic feelings for Ranka after all that has happened? Because that is the only way that Ranka has a chance.

Depends. I'm saying it ended because of the actions after episode 21, or Alto's lack of actions, but maihikari has the more eloquent way of putting it which is more true. The triangle can't be decided because of pity and can't because Ranka is gone. Having one girl out of the running means forever the other side could just say they won by default. There has to be a real answer to end it. Sheryl would never be happy with winning because of a reason other then Alto making it clear he loved her more, as she is not happy now with how it is.

Shipping wars never end -_- Especially not just because the series ended

If people look at them right they do. It's not black and white and one true love per person. People can love more then one person in their lifetime and people move on when things don't work.