Episode 74 - The Real Monster

[Johan_the_Monster]

That's indeed possible. But, I suppose it's best we don't know where Johan goes. We are left wondering, and that is the way Mr. Urasawa wanted it. The story is done and over, but we are still left wondering...

[Cirbo]

Originally Posted by Kooky

About Johan's mission and Nina's forgiving: I think the only reason to explain why Johan became the monster and not Nina was because it was just in his personality. Maybe he felt guilt and wanted to take away Nina's bad memories and ended up making them his. I've always found it weird that Johan became the result, when it was actually Nina in the experiments.

I personally thought this was explained by Nina when running to forgive Johan. When she had the flash back where Klaus Poppe told her that she couldn't become monsters because they were beautiful jewels. Nina's responce was "That's why... That's why I..." I thought she was saying that that was the reason she didn't become like Johan.

[mxg]

My god I am extremely late to the party. I cant belive I waited to watch this series out the ending has to be one of the best endings in anime history. And I am glad to see Runge actually getting along with his family becuse evrytime I saw him I always thought about his family. But the death of grimmer and the magnificent schtiner hurt me the most. Overall great series and I think a rewath is in order in about a year. Lol

[暁 うちはイタチ]

Damn, this must be the best series i have ever watcht!!, especially in the end, when Johan is gone...

[Trax]

Well since I decided to be stubborn and wait for AK's version I finally saw the final episode today. I did not expect a timeskip, I would have liked to have seen the immediate events after episode 73.

Nonetheless, it was nice to see how all the characters went on with their lives.
- Eva starting a new job as interior decorator, and having her alcohol problem under control. The conversation with the doctor was filled with both positive and depressing sentiments.
- Runge became a professor at the police academy, and has started to interact with his daughter more even if only by mail. He places the beer he promised to Grimmer at his gravestone, that was a nice touch.
- Tenma joined Doctors without Borders, it was interesting how his current activities were touched upon in each of the previous segments in this episode. He visits the twins' mother, who eventually reveals their true names. It irks me that we never actually hear these names, although I suppose it does not really matter.
- Nina went back to law school, and despite struggling to make her grades, expecting to get scolded she gets complimented on her thesis instead. Ofcourse she's happy with that, but it was even better to see her face light up after she hears Tenma will be back in town for a visit soon.

I'm not quite sure what to think of the ending, Tenma visits Johan who's still in a coma. Then, after mentioning her mother and that he knows their true names, Johan suddenly rises up with an eerie look and tells a little about what happened at the Three Frogs while Tenma stares at him in shock. Then suddenly Tenma snaps out of it, and it's unclear whether it really happened or it was his imagination. Shortly afterwards, Johan disappears.

It certainly does give you something to think about though, even if I would have preferred that some more gaps were filled in. Why did Johan get so screwed up specifically, while Nina did not? Johan somehow felt he did not exist since he did not have a name, and systematically tried to erase his past to make his nonexistance a reality. Knowing his real name, or even just knowing that he has a name (since Tenma never actually told him I think), might have been enough to snap him out of this train of thought. So whereever Johan went, there's a good chance he will not go back to his old way of life. In contrast, Nina never lost herself, and was satisfied adopting another name, and doesn't need to know her real name at all. Can't help but wonder what helped keep her sane, but glad she did since she's a great character. Nina's reaction to Tenma's visit was definately the highlight of this episode for me, really shows how close they have become.

[Geffrod]

Originally Posted by Trax

I'm not quite sure what to think of the ending, Tenma visits Johan who's still in a coma. Then, after mentioning her mother and that he knows their true names, Johan suddenly rises up with an eerie look and tells a little about what happened at the Three Frogs while Tenma stares at him in shock. Then suddenly Tenma snaps out of it, and it's unclear whether it really happened or it was his imagination. Shortly afterwards, Johan disappears.

I'm pretty sure he was dozing off. He was thinking about all the events that happened to Johan, and came to the conclusion of what probably happened in Johan's mind that time when things went wrong.

Originally Posted by Trax

It certainly does give you something to think about though, even if I would have preferred that some more gaps were filled in. Why did Johan get so screwed up specifically, while Nina did not?

Well, Johan experienced everything negative that Nina felt (she told him) and he killed to protect her identity from Klaus Poppe. Not knowing that Poppe made everything "better" for Nina by telling her that she can't become a Monster, Johan became overprotective of his little sister. Because of that, Johan killed out of the fear of Poppe and to honor what his mom said initially (thereby stigmatizing Johan as an unrelenting killer.)

Originally Posted by Trax

Johan somehow felt he did not exist since he did not have a name, and systematically tried to erase his past to make his nonexistance a reality. Knowing his real name, or even just knowing that he has a name (since Tenma never actually told him I think), might have been enough to snap him out of this train of thought. So whereever Johan went, there's a good chance he will not go back to his old way of life. In contrast, Nina never lost herself, and was satisfied adopting another name, and doesn't need to know her real name at all. Can't help but wonder what helped keep her sane, but glad she did since she's a great character. Nina's reaction to Tenma's visit was definately the highlight of this episode for me, really shows how close they have become.

You should read "Another Monster".

Really, you should.

[gaelle]

Anyways it was a great series n am curious yet glad Johan disappeared. It would have been sad if he was arrested, sentenced or worse murdered!!

They say what kills a monster is always human. So i think the real monster is those who create it, worship it, helps it. So the whole Organization including Poppe is to blame.

[taki-chan]

Originally Posted by mxg

My god I am extremely late to the party. I cant belive I waited to watch this series out the ending has to be one of the best endings in anime history. And I am glad to see Runge actually getting along with his family becuse evrytime I saw him I always thought about his family. But the death of grimmer and the magnificent schtiner hurt me the most. Overall great series and I think a rewath is in order in about a year. Lol

My god, I cried when Grimmer died. I totally wasn't expecting that. He was my fav. character in the whole anime! (next to Tenma and Johan, of course) You got to love Johan--he's so twisted and messed up!

[Whitemoon648]

Yeah have to agree. One of the best anime ever. Its a master piece i tell ya. just finished it few days ago. Even though somethings still remained in dark for me, i still Loved the series sooooooooooooooooooooo much.

[Goya Gokou]

About the biblical reference of the monster: I'll put in my two cents on what it ment in the show. For anyone who has evered studied the Bible one can know that parts of the Bible are to be taken as an analogy and some parts Literay. Like many parts of the last book of Revelation come to describe certain weapons they call "Like arrows which will have pinpoint accuray, and not miss they target." You have to relize that when the people who wrote Revelations were from thousands of years ago and they recieved theses messages from thier visions, so they used the best analogy of what they knew to describe this future vision, "IE arrows can be the analogy of cruise missiles today."

The begining Biblical refrences in Monster, is to the Antichrist and the details of him having 10 horns and crowns is an analogy to the New Roman Empire that he will control, think of the old Roman Empire but this is the rebirth of the Empire, what is currently know as the EU but will later be called the new Roman Empire, the idea behind this is that the Antichrist is described in the Bible as "The King of the North" who will come to control this new Roman Empire, which is represented by the 10 horns and crowns and the wounded and rehealing of this is represnted as one of the member Nations of the New Roman Empire will try to break away from the empire and will be wounded yet rehealed as it rejoins the empire later.

Also i would like to commit on Johans Perfect Sucide, ive previously wrote my ideas of what it meant before on ANN forum about Monster but was erased for some unknow reason that they never told me about. There is much more simliarities between Hitler and Johan that are not apparent from the first view, both were unwanted children that used others to get their ways , but the sucide thing is something i only discovered when i watch some History Channel special on the second world war and a German biographer of Hitler who also fought in ww2 as a 15 who lost his older brother in the war, offered up an idea that also fitted Johans Perfect Sucide he said that by the end of the battle for Stalingrad, Hitler knew the war was over, and said that though the reminder of the war Hitler wanted an Armaggedon ending that would follow his death, thus is why he oroded the whole country to be destoryed, as he was to be destoryed a perfect suicide of himself and the nation, but on a much smaller scale for Johan, in the town of Ruhenheim.

[Geffrod]

It's a shame that this forum seems to be slowing down quite a bit. I really hope that "Another Monster" gets turned into a series.

/off topic

[Cooldude]

If someone translates Another Monster I'd read it, otherwise I can't

[mizuhansha]

When Johan greets Anna when she returns from the red rose mansion, why is he holding a copy of The A Monster without a Name book?

[i0td]

A very brilliant series! I have read through the threads and decided against commenting too much on anything, because the lively discussion here has pretty much died down now. And to be honest, much of my interpretation of the show falls along fairly similar lines to what some of you have already posted. All I will say is that Monster is one of the most entracing stories that I have ever encountered. Excellent art and animation that provides the most believeable of settings. Beautiful character development - you can fall in love with each and every character, because just about everyone involved has a story to tell. And of course, an intricate plot that encompasses a very intriguing mystery stretched over four decades presented in outstanding quality.

In the first half of the series, we learn who the monster is and how the monster works. By the end, we understand why the monster is and watch the monster work. Each episode provided yet another clue, adding another piece to the history of the monster. Everything culminates in a most satisfactory ending that ties everything together. I reiterate: a very brilliant series!

Originally Posted by mizuhansha

When Johan greets Anna when she returns from the red rose mansion, why is he holding a copy of The A Monster without a Name book?

The book readings did affect Johan and gave birth to the monster inside him. So, even after the family escaped to the Three Frogs, the teachings, the corrupted philosophy stuck with him. Johan must have been completely captivated by the story, so unless I completely miss the mark, my guess is that when the family left, either Johan stole the book from Bonaparta or Capek must have given it to him.

[Jewelray]

And the moral of the story is...

Hug your kids.

[depthcharge101]

wow I am speechless. I hope the ppl that thought the anime is a masterpiece or the best anime anime actually understood the anime/manga. Heaps of many random answers are actually wrong, but did get corrected by later on at least.

In any case, I didn't finish watching the anime, the pace made me fell asleep so I went to read and finish the manga. All I can say is. Alright. Monster definitely does not deliver what it promises, ok spoilers time-

Spoiler:

The anime/manga has been talking this human's darkest fear, depth, abyss blah blah, and this MONSTER which i really wanna know, turns out to be nothing big, but just the decision of the mother. Ok, it is a bit of a twist, that the twin's mother turned out to be the monster cuz she actually chose to left one out and this causes johan to get turned into monster, it was nina that was thrown away, but johan thought he was the one his mom didnt pick because nina told him her memories and he got confused, and because of that he got crazy and wanna kil everyone, but really, it isn't that GOOD for an ultimate 18 volumes answer eh? God I am glad that I actually didn't spend all the time watching the 70++ eps.

Hm also forgot to mention, when you do think more about it, there isn't much content at all to the story. Many many many many many stuff in the story are totally unnecessary and pretty much just to make the story feel richer and more confusing. True, all the stuff introduced initially are linked with the story in the end, but I am not sure how should I put it, it doesn't feel, solid at all. The story can be easily summarized in 2 sentences and everything else are just added to make the story longer.

Tops I'd prolly give monster 7/10. So overated it's not even funny, imo.

[Kinny Riddle]

Originally Posted by depthcharge101

wow I am speechless. I hope the ppl that thought the anime is a masterpiece or the best anime anime actually understood the anime/manga. Heaps of many random answers are actually wrong, but did get corrected by later on at least.

In any case, I didn't finish watching the anime, the pace made me fell asleep so I went to read and finish the manga. All I can say is. Alright. Monster definitely does not deliver what it promises, ok spoilers time-

Spoiler:

The anime/manga has been talking this human's darkest fear, depth, abyss blah blah, and this MONSTER which i really wanna know, turns out to be nothing big, but just the decision of the mother. Ok, it is a bit of a twist, that the twin's mother turned out to be the monster cuz she actually chose to left one out and this causes johan to get turned into monster, it was nina that was thrown away, but johan thought he was the one his mom didnt pick because nina told him her memories and he got confused, and because of that he got crazy and wanna kil everyone, but really, it isn't that GOOD for an ultimate 18 volumes answer eh? God I am glad that I actually didn't spend all the time watching the 70++ eps.

Hm also forgot to mention, when you do think more about it, there isn't much content at all to the story. Many many many many many stuff in the story are totally unnecessary and pretty much just to make the story feel richer and more confusing. True, all the stuff introduced initially are linked with the story in the end, but I am not sure how should I put it, it doesn't feel, solid at all. The story can be easily summarized in 2 sentences and everything else are just added to make the story longer.

Tops I'd prolly give monster 7/10. So overated it's not even funny, imo.

You're obviously in the minority here given all the positive views so far in this thread. If you're looking for action in an anime, then this show is obviously not for you. It's supposed to be aimed at an older audience. According to ASuki's resident "encyclopedia" kj1980, even "mainstream people" who dislike everything anime, especially otakus, watch Monster due to its more mature storyline. And the title being adapted into a movie by New Line Cinema certainly speaks volumes.

While you have every right to dislike this show, your condescending attitude, whether intentional or not, certainly doesn't help. Are you trying to troll?

[eris_sama]

Even disregarding the complex plotting and rich backstory, what I love most about Monster is the realism, complexity and distinctiveness of the characters. So many anime have the same cookie cutter characters, but in Monster even the minor characters are memorable and distinctive.
Anyone who would like a better understanding of Johan and his background, please read my fanfic reconstruction (see ffnet link in sig).

[ace firefist]

I recently finished watching Monster.
I must say some parts 'were' dragged out, but nevertheless it was still a great show. Personally though my favaourite arc was episodes 30 - 40. I was kinda dissapointed with the ending, too many loose ends that I wanted to be answered. Simply put, there wasn't enough closure. I was hoping to see more of what happened to the characters after the events of Johann, and also really wanted to see more Tenma. Also anyone else out there annoyed with the fact that we didn't get to hear Johann's real name? It seems I'm not the only one who thinks theres something going on between Tenma and Nina.
BTW, Grimmer dying is one of the sadder moments of the series.

PS: Was there actually a TV Show called the magnificent Steiner??

[depthcharge101]

Originally Posted by Kinny Riddle

You're obviously in the minority here given all the positive views so far in this thread. If you're looking for action in an anime, then this show is obviously not for you. It's supposed to be aimed at an older audience. According to ASuki's resident "encyclopedia" kj1980, even "mainstream people" who dislike everything anime, especially otakus, watch Monster due to its more mature storyline. And the title being adapted into a movie by New Line Cinema certainly speaks volumes.

While you have every right to dislike this show, your condescending attitude, whether intentional or not, certainly doesn't help. Are you trying to troll?

I trying to troll lol. No I am merely saying that I didn't find monster that good, of course, there is nothing wrong with ppl liking it at all, after all everyone's different. And what's the point of mentioning being minority or anything, it doesn't mean if everyone likes it I have to force myself to like it.

Sheesh, merely saying what I thought about an anime that doesn't agree with everyone makes a troll now, that is lame.