[Manga] Claymore Chapter 78 Discussion

[germanturkey]

Originally Posted by Simley

yeah well, there is nothing new to talk about, so we are talking about anything and everything to fill in the gap till the next chapter
.

welcome to EVERY chapter discussion thread. the first 20 pages are normally good, but everything after it is kinda dirt..

anyways, next chapter i'm betting will be tame. its a shame. Miria and Clare were kicking ass... i wanna see more of what they've done.

[King Lycan]

I wanna se some talking action

[chibamonster]

My speculation is that the next chapter is going to be very plot intensive with quite a bit of focus on Clarice trying to figure out what is going on. Galatea is probably going to drop some information at the end of the chapter that makes everyone's jaw drop and we will have to wait to see what is really going on the month after that. The ghosts will recognize Clarice from the north as the girl who counted the swords and then Clarice will be like, "There really were survivors..." Miata is probably going to sit in the fetal position until someone threatens Clarice and then she'll pull out her sword and might go nuts. She's an unpredictable one. Cid is going to bust out his skills to get all the medicine he needs to heal his arm from the 10 claymores around him.

[Sleepy Speculator]

haha bust out his skills... I wonder if helen or cid will make the first move.

[King Lycan]

i would kill Clarice and maybe Miata if u cant contain her

[Kikaifan]

Originally Posted by myshka

So does anyone else thinks that the organization is in sad shape overall?

Well, each of the generations we've seen (Clarice, Clare, and Teresa) have improbable super-beings in the #1 and #2 spots as well as a warrior that's probably #1 level material in a lower spot (Miata, Raphaela, Irene).

I know Rubel says that every generation has its heroes but given how unique it turns out that Alicia and Beth are I can't really see the state of affairs we're presented with being normal. I'm sure the organization has been in much worse shape before.

[chibamonster]

With the completion of Alicia and Beth I think the organization is in the best shape its been in for some time. They were in much worse shape when their experiment failed and they lost control over Luciella. When they had Priscilla and Teresa in their ranks they probably had more fire power but did not know about it. Alicia is a tough cookie. Remember what they did to the 11 above average AB's? With an access and control over an Abyssal the organization will be fine. Now they are a part of the balance of power. No number of normal AB's will make a difference against he organization. It is the other AO's and Priscilla that are the real kicker. Not to mention they are producing things like Miata.

[khryoleoz]

Unless Alicia can do more than just give deterrent opposition to a single AO, there may not be a balance of power. The scale would still be decisively tipped over towards Priscilla and Isley, who together as a power overwhelms Riful or the org. I'd like to think that Clare stands to defeat that power, if not now then soon.

[myshka]

I like this manga, but there are so many loose ends!! I mean we never find out what happens to come of the most interesting characters! Irene, Rafaela..thank god that Galatea survived, I really like her a lot, hope she lives and joins the ghosts!
I was really sad when Undine was killed, she had such a dual nature, it would have been cool to see her character progress. Yuma on the other hand, drives me nuts! She is so un-claymorish, weak and insure, had her arm cut off in the very first AB battle in Pieta. How did she ever get a higher rank than Clare????

[Cyclone]

Originally Posted by Awakened

My original statement.



In that Ramona fight Clare only won because of her Claymore. According to what you saying she did not need her claymore to win, because she is that much stronger than the Yoma.

Edite: If Clare was that mush stronger without her sword, she should have killed that Yoma pretending to be a claymore without getting injured. Her injury was so bad, that her handler had to comment on it.

Please reread my original statement.

I almost came late to work answering... and this displeases me greatly. I will re-itterate why you're theory is faulty one last time.

Your premise which you build your theory on is that:

I don't think that the average claymore is stronger than a regular Yoma.

This is just silly. You have no evidence for that.

Logically extending your statement to speed instead of strength, gives us the following:
- youma are faster than humans
- claymores are half youma half human
- therefore in terms of speed: humans < claymores < youma.

We know this to be false. Raki's brother's youma says Clare is faster, Clare says Claymores are faster. Why this is, I don't know, and for the purposes of this argument, I don't care.

The above example shows that the reasoning behind your statement is faulty. In terms of raw strength, I suspect that Claymores are stronger than youmas - if they sat down to arm wrestle, my bet would be on the Claymore.

In terms of battle power - DBZ style power levels - a youma has some advantages that a Claymore does not. Youmas are basically shape-shifters. Why on earth would you get into a bare handed fight with someone who can make their fingers into spears and probably stretch any part you're trying to rip off - gomu-gomu style. Fighting bare handed is being stupid because the opponent is, by their physiology, not unarmed. Battle power is not strength though. Could an average Claymore still win - probably - but attempting such a battle would be stupid and no more relevant than which would win between the 2 with their feet tied together blindfolded underwater upsidedown in a raging whirlpool. Fact is claymore's can use weapons - and even if their claymores were removed from them, they'd find somehting else to fight with (and win).

Let's assume for a minute, however, that you are right and a youma has more strength than a Claymore - a proof by contradiction if you will:
Let's say we give a youma a Claymore and teach them to use it. They are not anatomically or mentally unable to learn to use one. So, now let's match up this Claymore weilding youma with an average Claymore weilding Claymore. Is there any doubt in your mind that the Claymore(person) would win? There isn't in my mind. Why? Because a Claymore Warrior is faster and probably stronger (more strength). So all things being equal, a Claymore is stronger than a youma. Q.E.D.

You went on to say that youmas are weaker than armed Claymores because it's just not fair that those mean old claymores have swords and those poor youmas are left to block the slashes with nothing but their dellicate bodies. If the sword were really such an unfair advantage, then why dont youmas use shields and swords themselves and become invincible?

[Cyclone]

Originally Posted by Simley

I don't understand all the Raki bashing...every time I see him in the manga, he does something cool. He helped Clare come back from an awakening in Rabona, against Ophelia, even though he knew he had no chance, he fought her without complaining so Clare could reattach her legs. Then he asked Isley to teach him how to fight with a sword....for his own sake? no...he wants to get stronger so he can help Clare. I fail to see where he would be considered a wimp.

Heh. It's really is quite simple.
We see him as the typcial immature, dim-witted, clumbsy, crybaby who gets all the hot girls without even trying. We're jealous! It's not fair that that idiot gets Clare falling for him!! We must save her from that fool !!!! Death to RAKII!!!!!!!!!!

[Cyclone]

Originally Posted by hell88

Does anyone else think this thread has gone on to long and almost all of the disscusions in it have absolutely nothing to do with chapter 78. Lol

As recently as a few pages ago I asked who the 2 ghosts in the bottom right panel on page 12 of 78 were. Got no answer. No matter - the theories are more fun anyways.

[Simley]

Originally Posted by Cyclone

Let's assume for a minute, however, that you are right and a youma has more strength than a Claymore - a proof by contradiction if you will:
Let's say we give a youma a Claymore and teach them to use it. They are not anatomically or mentally unable to learn to use one. So, now let's match up this Claymore weilding youma with an average Claymore weilding Claymore. Is there any doubt in your mind that the Claymore(person) would win? There isn't in my mind. Why? Because a Claymore Warrior is faster and probably stronger (more strength). So all things being equal, a Claymore is stronger than a youma. Q.E.D.

heh, that gives me an idea...why doesn't a youma shapeshift into a claymore and go around killing humans in a claymore disguise. You would think they can change into a male or female, so they can easily trick the humans. Would be quite interesting to see the org's rep get tarnished by a crazy youma.

I'm glad I didn't watch the anime after episode 17. I don't know what happens, I just know it's some retarded anime only crap. From previous experiences, I knew when anime steered away from their manga counterpart, they usually end horribbly. I also think it's unfair to judge raki based on the anime, cause in the manga he's wicked. I too am jealous he gets to be so close to clare, and now priscilla, but still...

Cyclone, I was wondering that too, but it's difficult to tell so I didn't know the answer and didn't respond. I do remember you asking.

[derelict88]

Originally Posted by Awakened

In that fight in Rabona the Yoma was winning until Clare got her Claymore (sword).

Hmmm Clare won due to the fact she turned or nearly Awaken not really due to the sword. Than the pretty boytoy Raki brought her back from the brink of being fully Awaken.

[derelict88]

Alicia and Beth is the ultimate xmas goody goody for the Org? I think not, I feel in the long run they will be more of a liability than an asset.

1st out of my bat is the soul-link whatchamacallit thingy. To wullop Alicia you need only knock out Beth. The rest as they say will be history repeating itself, Luciela numba twoo anivan? Cant get near Beth you say? Have you not heard of Rafaela? A Rafaela wannabe can sneak behind you and tap on your shoulder without you even knowing what is tapping you.

I still think Alicia and Beth are more of a liability in the near future. Like the Titan they will go down all the more harder.

[Vinak]

sorry if this has been discussed somewhere else, i haven't looked at the forum too much with this thread as an exception.

Does anybody think its possible the organization took advantage of Clare and Teresa's relationship and were just looking for an excuse to try to execute her? they knew Alicia and Beth were going to work out for them.

maybe by making such a powerful claymore with an unstable personality fight Teresa they knew she was likely to awaken.

this made a fourth abysmal one which as we have seen, unbalanced the relationship with the original 3 and are now fighting amongst each other.

could have made the possibility for the abysmal ones to kill each other off while the organization uses Alicia and Beth to pick off the survivors.

Maybe Rubel knows more about half Youma than the rest of the organization and knew what Clare was really capable of. he never really seems surprised when she survives impossible situations.

[King Lycan]

they have a huge flaw because Beth is left wide open Alicia could be fight Riful and Duph could just sneak around and kill Beth then the soul link goes bye bye.....

[Vinak]

how far away can Alicia and Beth be and maintain a soul link?

when one of the MIB took Alicia to examine Riful, Beth didn't seem to be anywhere nearby.
though perhaps the MIB knew he wasn't going to be attacked.

I also would assume the Organization would have other half Youma protect Beth if she can't defend herself.

like when they kept Galatea near her when Alicia defended the East against the 11 attacking awakened Beings

[derelict88]

Originally Posted by Vinak

how far away can Alicia and Beth be and maintain a soul link?

I think they have to have eye contact range. Remember Alicia's human state of mind is kinda using Beth to see the battle from afar. Look at it this way, Beth is like a console that Alicia is using to control the behemoth Awaken state. While Beth is there with Alicia to keep things well oiled.
Well that didnt really answer your question but if it is distance I think it could be pretty far but as to how potent that link I think the eye contact with the Abyssal is assential in any case. The reason how I came to this junction is simply the high area that Beth was in during Alicia's Awaken state. But this is still speculations. Dont hold it against me if I erred.

Any arguments to redirect my summation?

[Fenrir_valindri]

I think anything short of Abyssal Level strength, or Raphaela style stealth, wouldn't be able to take on Beth, as she is her sister's twin after all, which means she is easily #1 material, which in turn tells us that she could beat down most of the characters in Claymore easily, including the likes of Dauf.

I don't think a big weakness like being helpless while soul-linking will stand after 7years of training Alicia and Beth.

Possible threats are; Raphaela, Miria, Clare; as they are all probably within the power range to threaten Beth, and stealthy to boot.