2008-09-29, 18:54 | Link #162 | |
I've been Kawarolled
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the rich invest the most by far, i think there assets getting hammered in the stock market qualifies as a loss. |
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2008-09-29, 18:59 | Link #164 |
Wiggle Your Big Toe
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Milwaukee
Age: 33
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Has anyone else heard about what some treasury spokeswomen said about the $700 billion figure. "It's not based on any particular data point; We just wanted to choose a really large number."
Wow, just wow.
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Last edited by GuidoHunter_Toki; 2008-09-29 at 21:01. |
2008-09-29, 19:03 | Link #166 |
Hina is my goddess
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Dec 2005
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I dont know too many details about the plan or weather it would help or hurt economy, but the problem is the longer this thing goes on the more stressed and worried people get which sinks the stocks. Either they need to pass it or let it die but muddling and debating is what has people worried.
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2008-09-29, 19:09 | Link #167 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Land of the rising sun
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Unfortunately that is not the case, majority of people will be hesitant in buying wanting to pick up at rock bottom so they will gain maximum profit. It's like an economic bubble only on a downward trend, everyone pulls out their money thinking they will lose profit that they had not yet earned. As for socialism being aversed by the US society, I believe it is based on difference in social value. Americans in general are taught that individuality is a precious virtue that needs to be protected. Socialism goes against this ideal. An extreme example would be their disconfort against mass transit transportation where you have little to no privacy and have to follow a route than to form a route of your own. The republican's ideals are basical based on this believing that the less interference with indviduality the better. |
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2008-09-29, 19:46 | Link #168 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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On the socialism .... America spent most of the 20th Century being told that Communism==Socialism==consummate evil (along with a splash of Unionism) .... despite the niggling problem that we basically hauled ourself out of the Depression and created a huge middle class with a combination of socialist mechanisms and a war that fought using a "collective team" mindset.
Individualism in the US is often pushed to the extent that "You're on your own" is extolled as some sort of virtue rather than some form of insanity in an innately social species. The full quote should be "We've got ours, you're on your own, pbffffft." There's some fictional notion that wealth is created in a vacuum instead of a societal infrastructure.
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Last edited by Vexx; 2008-09-29 at 21:38. |
2008-09-29, 20:18 | Link #169 |
9wiki
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I've quoted it several times, but I think it bears saying again:
"Every one's a socialist at some point." It's just a question of what point and how. My personal preference is that all socialism be a layer on top of an economic system, not PART of the economic system. Freedom, robustness, and safety. The bailout is putting the government right at the core of the system. That's my biggest problem with this bailout: It's giving an enormous amount of economic power to the state. A few individuals, really. I'm not concerned about the cash, because a pennies on the dollar buy is going to have returns that will negate any concern about the taxpayer burden. The problem is that it's an outright power grab. It's so absolutely wrong that I simply can't muster the will to be angry. It just doesn't even seem real. How can I be mad if I'm just dreaming it? The treasury didn't even have figures to support 700 billion. They were looking for a large number. That they've had the gall to say this to the press just shows how bold these people are getting.
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2008-09-29, 20:42 | Link #171 | ||
(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Capitalism as a system does work, but it needs Socialist policies to keep it in check. Unchecked systems of one or the other assuredly fail, but when the balance is between equal between freedom and someone telling you when freedom has limits the system works better as a whole. What the underlying fear really is though, is that too much Socialism will lead to a police state (what Americans think of when it comes to Fascism or Communism). So anything that gives what the people believe is too much power to the government will be treated with resistance, even as they look to the people they voted in power for help when the going gets tough. It's a strikingly hard balance to maintain, and even the Founding Fathers struggled with their beliefs on this. Read up on Jefferson sometime - he'll admit that even though he hated large corporations, banks, and governments, he also admitted that they were sometimes a necessary evil. Quote:
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2008-09-29, 21:06 | Link #172 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Land of the rising sun
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While on one hand people trys to point out the ill values of socialism while the house of representatives wrecks up a plan for the sake of his own personal gain. Quote:
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Central banks to double amount of dollar injections into market as U.S. financial crisis spreads |
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2008-09-29, 21:34 | Link #175 | |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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That's the change I'd make there. You're hearing the screams of testicle-waving day-trading speculators who just got their waving ways scrunched. Investors tend to be more measured in their response - if you didn't sell this morning you're probably best off riding it out. And it might be a good time to pick up some deals. ... even if it drops more, the only thing that really matters is how much you bought it for and later how much you sell it for. Personally, I'd like to see day trading speculative twits run out of the market and back to the roulette and craps tables. Go back to rewarding long-term investing with tax incentives
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2008-09-29, 21:43 | Link #176 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Land of the rising sun
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Yeah, captial gain(and/or loss) is a bitch. |
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2008-09-29, 21:43 | Link #177 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Suburban DC
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Ioono, Vexx. I mean it's understandable how some of the pachyderms have ideological differences to gov't intervention, but isn't it true the longer we wait the worse off we will be?
I mean many higher ups said that this Bill is HARDLY gonna please everyone, but that's kinda expected right? Also why I agree, that Pelosi SHOULDN'T have said the partisan speech (even if there was some truth to it) not getting behind the bill with that as I primary reason IS A HUGE LOAD OF CROCK IN MY BOOK. I personally figured out that American fear of socialism is partly bull, I keep on looking to Western European countries like UK, France, Germany, Sweden, etc. they have Social Democratic (A mix of democratic and socialist principles, I think) parties and more Free market parties which both at the end are biased towards a generally free market (in varying degrees) and they all seem to have healthy robust economies, I seriously don't get the problem Last edited by solomon; 2008-09-29 at 21:54. |
2008-09-29, 22:16 | Link #179 | ||||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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I think that it's good news that the bailout plan as proposed failed. Hopefully it'll mean that Congress will take their time and come up with a better one.
The plan was basically Paulson's with a few modification (admittedly for the better). However, all it'll really accomplish is some temporary increase in spending, only to make the big crash that much bigger when it hits. Quote:
Here's a counterpoint from someone who managed to predict this whole mess: http://www.rgemonitor.com/roubini-mo...itors_of_banks Quote:
From a logical point of view, if a housing bubble is partially to blame for the mess, then isn't it also necessary for the housing market to correct itself? Any plan that fails to take that into account seems to me to be rather inadequate. Quote:
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Speculation had little to do with the big drop on Monday. Short selling of most the financials has already been forbidden. Instead, investors seemed to be trying to find some sort of refuge from all the chaos.
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2008-09-29, 22:21 | Link #180 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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The House showed us why you have a Senate ...... madhouse vs lethargic consideration
I actually listened to Pelosi's speech .... she didn't attack "Republicans" as such, she attacked *Bush* and his administration (which only a few Republicans still think of as representing Republicans). That said, her need to do that at that moment was stupid ... and the Republicans harumphing away was stupid. But I also think the ones who voted YES were being stupid. This puppy of a bill stinks..... and the twinks that came up with it might shouldn't be involved in reworking it.
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economy |
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