Signature of the Month Contest Generic Discussion Thread

[Ayame_]

I would think of maybe expanding that to 15. Gives at least a few more people a chance at the final. You know the favourites and the real pros here are going to take a top 10 every time, adding 5 extra spots allows for a few surprise entries, and one-ofs that happen to be really good and liked.

I still support a nomination phase, it would be best to narrow down the field but you don't want to cut it down too much eh.

[KiNA]

But the problem with more then 10, is that we have to asked a mod to help set the poll up. Max choice for normal user is 10, mods can make a poll up to 20 choices.

[Ayame_]

Ah I see, didn't know that, shows how often I hang out here.

Then I understand the 10 choice better, makes sense.

[Solace]

For the March Contest, the voting limit will be upped to three instead of two. You are not required to pick three, but you can pick up to three entries.

@Speci - the times are pretty standard currently. The "dates" change, but the actual amount of time does not. Contest will always officially start on the 1st of each month, no matter what.

[aolas]

question! question!
solace, are the contestant must vote too.
this is my first time join this event so i dont know much

[Solace]

Contestants don't have to vote, but they can if they wish. Just don't vote for yourself. The voting rules will be posted in the voting thread when it's up, no worries.

[Deathkillz]

Not saying that I will but what's the problem with voting for yourself?

[KasumiGirl]

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

Not saying that I will but what's the problem with voting for yourself?

I don't believe theres a problem, but don't you think it's a little cheezy?

It's pretty weird voting for yourself (especially when there is 50+ other great entries you could have voted for. ) Though, this doesn't mean you have to think yours is bad just for the sake of it, but you should take pride in your work still. It's just taking it a bit far.

Not saying that it's against the rules or anything, though.

This is just my opinon on voting for yourself, this was not stated as a "rule" or "note", so i guess when it comes down to it, it's the individual.

EDIT: The voting thread is up tomorrow? Right?

[Deathkillz]

I'm just going by the thought on "self voting" from the last time we had the banner entries for AS. It is dodgy in a way but I don't think there should be a rule saying that it isn't allowed.

[KasumiGirl]

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

I'm just going by the thought on "self voting" from the last time we had the banner entries for AS. It is dodgy in a way but I don't think there should be a rule saying that it isn't allowed.

But there isn't a rule.

[Sephi]

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

I'm just going by the thought on "self voting" from the last time we had the banner entries for AS. It is dodgy in a way but I don't think there should be a rule saying that it isn't allowed.

I think any self respecting signature maker would refrain from voting for him/herself. I personally can't bring myself to do such a thing. It's not about not allowed, it's just meh, probably something about morals and values. Atleast for me it is

About the nomination stage. I'm not sure if i understood it completely. But the main point of a nomination stage is to make choosing a winner easier right? Imho the competition should be a community thing. And making a nomination stage and a final stage with 10 signatures. Won't it make this event a even more something for the elite (to put it blunt) while the less dedicated signature artists get left out even more? That is how i feel about it. Than again i could of misunderstood the whole nomination thing

Of course the main focus about this is fun and learning. Though everyone likes to win, and i don't think any of us are a exception to that

[Thingle]

I will vote for myself. I'm saying it now so you won't comment if I do it.

Yeah, and there should be no distinction between elite and beginners. Let us all have an equal shot at it.

[Izayoi]

Voting is really just picking what you think is the best, so if you think you are the best then I guess there shouldn't be a problem voting for yourself.
~As a artist myself, I would have to say; I enjoy other's work more than mine.

[Thingle]

We're opposites. I enjoy mine than theirs.

[Ledgem]

Originally Posted by Setsilya~

Voting is really just picking what you think is the best, so if you think you are the best then I guess there shouldn't be a problem voting for yourself.

Right, except that we're all biased in favor of our own works (unless you have low self-esteem or have a humble attitude, in which case you probably wouldn't vote for yourself regardless). I think a lot of people are very focused on purely winning.

There's one example I can remember that happened to me involving this. Way back in middle school we had to work in small groups (2-3 people) to put on class plays - I don't remember what the purpose was. My group and one other group in my class put in a ton of effort. Both groups were made up of three people. In the end, the other group won - by one vote. Do you know why? Because they all voted for themselves, my two groupmates voted for themselves, but I felt that voting for my own stuff was sort of tacky and voted for the other group. Had I voted for my own group we would have won; had I voted for any other group we would have tied. More to the point, had none of the two groups voted for themselves we probably would have won by a larger margin. (And of course, had everyone voted for themselves, then there'd be ties all over the place.) Focusing on losing and winning aside, was that really a fair vote? Of course almost everyone is going to want to win and vote for themselves - it's biased voting. Does that really mean they're better, or that they thought they were better? Or did they just want to win?

I don't think ill of people who vote for themselves, but I truly believe that most people who vote for themselves are doing it because they want to do almost everything they can to win. Adding one vote to your column instead of a competitor can make all the difference between winning and coming in second place, as I learned. I don't think it makes it "right"... but then, I'm not really focused on winning this contest so much as just putting out works and having a good time

[Izayoi]

Originally Posted by Ledgem

Right, except that we're all biased in favor of our own works (unless you have low self-esteem or have a humble attitude, in which case you probably wouldn't vote for yourself regardless). I think a lot of people are very focused on purely winning.

There's one example I can remember that happened to me involving this. Way back in middle school we had to work in small groups (2-3 people) to put on class plays - I don't remember what the purpose was. My group and one other group in my class put in a ton of effort. Both groups were made up of three people. In the end, the other group won - by one vote. Do you know why? Because they all voted for themselves, my two groupmates voted for themselves, but I felt that voting for my own stuff was sort of tacky and voted for the other group. Had I voted for my own group we would have won; had I voted for any other group we would have tied. More to the point, had none of the two groups voted for themselves we probably would have won by a larger margin. (And of course, had everyone voted for themselves, then there'd be ties all over the place.) Focusing on losing and winning aside, was that really a fair vote? Of course almost everyone is going to want to win and vote for themselves - it's biased voting. Does that really mean they're better, or that they thought they were better? Or did they just want to win?

I don't think ill of people who vote for themselves, but I truly believe that most people who vote for themselves are doing it because they want to do almost everything they can to win. Adding one vote to your column instead of a competitor can make all the difference between winning and coming in second place, as I learned. I don't think it makes it "right"... but then, I'm not really focused on winning this contest so much as just putting out works and having a good time

Well you gotta see that there is all kind of people in this world, really just depend on their morals and values.

we're all biased in favor of our own works (unless you have low self-esteem or have a humble attitude, in which case you probably wouldn't vote for yourself regardless)

Not really, when you created something; you know exactly where it's bad point and where it's good point. As human, we usually focus on whats bad and not whats good, so it is really hard to get a good impression on your own work. But there are those people. ~Well that is one reason why a lot of artist aren't satisfied with their work even if it is very amazing. It is not a bad attitude since it will become a motivation to move you forward, since you know you can improve.

[Faeyice]

Originally Posted by Solace

For the March Contest, the voting limit will be upped to three instead of two. You are not required to pick three, but you can pick up to three entries.

@Speci - the times are pretty standard currently. The "dates" change, but the actual amount of time does not. Contest will always officially start on the 1st of each month, no matter what.

I'm so glad we can pick 3 entries now. x.x

I don't plan on voting for myself either. Voting for yourself to me seems like your desperate for you to have more votes or something. o.O

I'm not in favor of anything I make. :U I prefer a lot of other people's work. I have sharp eyesight, and so I can pick out errors easily. A lot of the things I make that I actually love, people say they aren't good as things I hate.

[Solace]

From the rules:

4. You can vote for yourself, but we'd rather you didn't. If you are going to vote for yourself, you must vote for someone else as your second choice.

This will be changed to reflect the increase in voting but basically, if you really want to vote for yourself, you *must* at least vote for one other person.

Now, about morals and ethics. Here's mine: Voting for yourself says that out of all the possible entries, you thought yours was better than everyone else's....in which case why did you bother even entering? If you know your work was better, then you should let your peers decide. You already cast your "vote" when you entered the contest. Now you need to let the public decide if they agree with you.

Now, I could have just said no voting for yourself. But, I didn't. The reason I left it open is because I know most people won't vote for themselves, but some will, and with the clause that they vote for at least one other person at least their potential voting won't go entirely to waste.

@Sephi - actually, I agree with you. The idea of the nomination phase is just an attempt to spur discussion into making the voting process easier for everyone involved, to get ideas rolling. Right now, it's a pointless measure simply because manual counting means extra effort twice instead of once if we added it.

[KholdStare]

Originally Posted by Solace

4. You can vote for yourself, but we'd rather you didn't. If you are going to vote for yourself, you must vote for someone else as your second choice.

Interesting concept. Since the maximum amount of votes is 3, I would say if you vote for yourself, you should vote for two others. Basically, if you vote for yourself, then you must have 3 votes total. I think it makes it fair.

[Ledgem]

Originally Posted by Setsilya~

Not really, when you created something; you know exactly where it's bad point and where it's good point. As human, we usually focus on whats bad and not whats good, so it is really hard to get a good impression on your own work. But there are those people. ~Well that is one reason why a lot of artist aren't satisfied with their work even if it is very amazing. It is not a bad attitude since it will become a motivation to move you forward, since you know you can improve.

What you said reminds me of something interesting. I've received some training in Chinese calligraphy, and here's something we learned - there are three basic stages that a person undergoes during their training. If I recall correctly, when you begin you will feel that all of your work is near-masterpiece level. This takes some time to fade away, and then you reach the second level: your flaws stand out at you. You may feel that your work is all flawed, but this is necessary for improvement. In the final stages you work hard and recognize your shortcomings and your improvements.

I can say for certain that I followed those stages exactly as they were described (although I never really made it to stage 3, as I didn't do calligraphy for more than half a year). Does it apply to all forms of art, and all types of people? I know it applies to me and almost any type of art I do, but I can't say for sure that it applies to everyone.

What you say may apply to most people - I can't say for sure. I personally don't think everyone or even the majority of people start out at the final stage that calligraphy makes mention of, but I can't say for certain It's just a thought, either way. I guess I'm with solace in saying that if you enter a contest you're already nominating yourself by putting yourself into the running. If you really feel that you're the absolute best and nobody else is even worth a single vote, abstain from voting - your superiority should be clear enough to your peers, right? (For what it's worth I don't really mind it if people vote for themselves. At this point I'm more or less musing over the philosophy behind the act.)