Relationships In The MSLN Series [SERIOUS DISCUSSION ONLY]

[MeisterBabylon]

No, that's just the true pairing of Hayaurion.

[Kaijo]

Normally, I try to read previous posts in a thread so I don't cover the same ground, but there's 100+ posts here, so... and I might be stirring up a hornet's nest... and feel free to tell me if this particular viewpoint has been done. I also come into this with a scientific mindset, ie, I don't rule something out until it has been proven; but I also form models to work with a situation.

First off, I'm going to bring Cardcaptor Sakura into this, as a point of contrast. For those who aren't familiar with it, the themes running through that series had to do with Romantic Love; besides guy/girl, there was guy/guy and girl/girl (also teacher/really young female student). In a point I'll hit later, I noticed they didn't hit any groupings larger than two, ie, guy/girl/girl or girl/guy/guy.

I feel that the themes running through Nanoha, however, have to do primarily with Family love, and secondly with friendship love. We have:

Nanoha's standard loving family (and her friendship with Arisa & Suzuka)
Suzuka's sister, and her maids being sisters
Fate and Precia's mother/daughter issues
Lindy/Crono's relationship aboard the Asura/Athra
Hayate, who had no family and then gained one in the Wolkenritter
Graham and his two familiar's that call him father (while there is the obvious perverted angle, I'd like to think he really wanted daughters); Crono also seems to regard him as somewhat of a father figure
Genya and his two daughters, Suburu/Ginga
Teana's link with her brother
Vivio and her two mommies
The cyborgs, some of whom eventually become part of the Nakajima family

And so on. Whereas CCS explores the various incarnations of romantic love, Nanoha seeks to tell us about different ways a family can form and exist as. And to a lesser extent, how friendship bonds can form and evolve. In that light, I think the downplaying of romantic love is very much intentional, at least in how most people view it. I think it helps explain 7arcs ambiguity. They don't want to alienate the shipping fanbase, but instead continue to focus on their main themes.

In my own experience, I've known close friends. People who do everything together, and yet aren't romantically linked. I have a friend who is a poly; someone who can love more than one person. She currently has two boyfriends (who know about each other and are fine with that). I'm really good friends with her, but neither she, nor I, have any romantic feelings for each other. I've seen strong sisterly and brotherly bonds. I'm a straight male, but I have no problems hugging a close male friend without any sexual undertones.

So perhaps I don't read into any subtext as much as others might, and do see stuff like Nanoha and Fate being simply best friends, perhaps even much in the way of sisterly bonds. People can be really close without being romantically involved. They can even raise a child together. I've slept in the same beds with other guys, because at the time, it was a decent arrangement.

Having said that, I have no problems with people who want to see them more romantically. As long as it's understood that, canon-wise, the theme being told is something different. I don't want to see some relationship models being flat-out rejected, when there isn't word either way.

In order for me to see something as more than close friendship, there has to be some very definite signs:

1. They get married
2. One or both has thoughts indicating they like a person more than a friend
3. One or both says it out loud
4. A third party notices how two people are acting, and confronts one or both of them (leading either to extreme denials, or confessions)

Blushes alone don't do it for me, unless within the context of the above.

So while I know people talk about relationships more in the romantic sense, I guess I'd like to approach this more from the family angle that I feel the Nanoha series takes as it's major theme. I suppose I'll also slowly read through this thread to see if it such things are covered. Has anyone else here had such family or close friend relationships?

As a closing point, I'd actually like to see a show break from the norm of "pairings" and go into 3 or 4 person loves. Would bring the whole Harem idea into a new meaning. Even though I didn't quite like the Kanoken series, I had to admit it's final lines were an extreme breath of fresh air.

For those that don't about that one, it's a short ecchi series about a big-breasted girl that really loves this wimpy guy (who protests about it). She gets competition from this other girl who also pushes herself on him. At the end, although the guy eventually admits that he loves Big-breasted girl, and they starting to get it on... the other girl pops up and still tries to get it on with him at the same time. The lines basically go like this:

Main Girl: What are you doing here? He already said he loves me; I'm going to be his wife. What do you think you are?

Second girl: His mistress.

Main girl: *sighs and claps her hand* Very well, I accept.

(Guy sweats, getting very worried)

So if anything, I'd probably be a Fate/Nanoha/Yuuno trio person. :P But I can see other potential setups with other characters.

[Rising Dragon]

"So if anything, I'd probably be a Fate/Nanoha/Yuuno trio person. :P But I can see other potential setups with other characters."

Go check out Nanya01 and RadiantBeam's Relationships series of fics then, you won't be disappointed.

[itanshi1]

x_X this thread almost went to page two and vanished *cries*

[RadiantBeam]

It lives!

...

...

...

OH SHI- *shot*

[TheShinySword]

Eh heh now now. No need to be hasty.

[RadiantBeam]

...

I only have one thing to say...

Miyuki x Nanoha FTW!

*fleeeeeeeeeeeeeees*

[Vivio Testarossa]

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

...

I only have one thing to say...

Miyuki x Nanoha FTW!

*fleeeeeeeeeeeeeees*

Miyuki x Nanoha? Aren't both of them biological sisters (not that will prevent shipping of them, nor do I object to this ship)? That is I assume you are talking about Miyuki Takamachi? If this is another "Miyuki" please forgive me.

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by Vivio Testarossa

Miyuki x Nanoha? Aren't both of them biological sisters (not that will prevent shipping of them, nor do I object to this ship)? That is I assume you are talking about Miyuki Takamachi? If this is another "Miyuki" please forgive me.

Nope, I'm talking about Takamachi Miyuki. :3

MGLN is based off the ero-game Triangle Hearts. In canon, Miyuki is actually Nanoha's cousin. Her mother left her with her brother (Shiro) when Miyuki was still young and went to pursue revenge for the murder of her family. Miyuki was adopted by the Takamachis and stayed with them for the rest of her days.

Of course, I don't know if the same applies to MGLN, but it's something I'm expanding on in one of my fanfics. The angst, I tell you. 8D

[TheShinySword]

Oh you angst addict you. Not that it doesn't work.

[Vivio Testarossa]

I support HayatexVita and HayatexReinforce (Zwei Toweringman has 2 explicit images of HayatexReinforceZwei)

Spoiler for Pictures:

[Lexich]

There was released a new Drama CD, joined with a future release of The MOVIE 1st.
You can find some summary and a download links here. It's pretty old, actually, but I can't find any mention of it in this thread.
It seems to give canon credibility to notion that Yuunoha is 100% lost cause.

[Nya~n]

Movie is AU, so you can't exactly justify that for series proper. I'm sorry. Not that I'm saying that it matters. If you WANT Yuunoha NOT to happen, you can take this as series canon(even though movie is considered AU). Simply saying "YUUNOHA NOT GONNA HAPPEN YO"... Well, let's not start yet another ship war, shall we?

[Marsala]

Originally Posted by Nya~n

Movie is AU, so you can't exactly justify that for series proper. I'm sorry. Not that I'm saying that it matters. If you WANT Yuunoha NOT to happen, you can take this as series canon(even though movie is considered AU). Simply saying "YUUNOHA NOT GONNA HAPPEN YO"... Well, let's not start yet another ship war, shall we?

The Movie CD is part of series canon since it is about the TV characters talking about the movie being made in their universe.

[Nya~n]

Right. Right.

[Lexich]

Originally Posted by Nya~n

Right. Right.

It sounds like you haven't bothered to actually listen to Drama CD/read the summary.
So, I'll explain. This Drama CD was included with pre-ordered tickets for The MOVIE 1st. It features a lot of Vivio spending time with her mamas, one of the tracks on the vol.1 named "Takamachi family gathering". Said family include Vivio, Nanoha and Fate.
Vol.2 is about Fate and her adopted children, Nanoha shows up a bit too. And then, on the 4th track, Yuuno and Chrono talk about Nanoha and who Yuuno is to her. It's said that he is her close friend and (once) magic teacher and that she respects him very much.
To me it's quite openly states that Nanoha and Yuuno don't share any romantic relationship right now, and most probably never did in the past. Yes, we know from previous canon instalments that Yuuno had romantic feelings for Nanoha. But they were never answered.
Now the question is "why?". Some answers would be:
1. Nanoha has someone else we haven't seen yet. - Not likely.
2. Nanoha has someone we know. Fate would be most likely candidate. (you know, big bed, a child)
3. Nanoha is incapable of romantic feelings for anyone, her closeness with Fate meaning that they are on a "sisters' level".
Take your pick.

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by Lexich

It sounds like you haven't bothered to actually listen to Drama CD/read the summary.
So, I'll explain. This Drama CD was included with pre-ordered tickets for The MOVIE 1st. It features a lot of Vivio spending time with her mamas, one of the tracks on the vol.1 named "Takamachi family gathering". Said family include Vivio, Nanoha and Fate.
Vol.2 is about Fate and her adopted children, Nanoha shows up a bit too. And then, on the 4th track, Yuuno and Chrono talk about Nanoha and who Yuuno is to her. It's said that he is her close friend and (once) magic teacher and that she respects him very much.
To me it's quite openly states that Nanoha and Yuuno don't share any romantic relationship right now, and most probably never did in the past. Yes, we know from previous canon instalments that Yuuno had romantic feelings for Nanoha. But they were never answered.
Now the question is "why?". Some answers would be:
1. Nanoha has someone else we haven't seen yet. - Not likely.
2. Nanoha has someone we know. Fate would be most likely candidate. (you know, big bed, a child)
3. Nanoha is incapable of romantic feelings for anyone, her closeness with Fate meaning that they are on a "sisters' level".
Take your pick.

Why did you have to revive this thread? Why?

[Tempy]

*sigh*

And we were doing so well without this...

I wish we could sage this.

[Lexich]

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

Why did you have to revive this thread? Why?

Because new canon information arisen and I don't see it taken into consideration? It's not like I'm posting controversial claims to rouse the masses. Just continuing discussion which grinded to a halt without new info.

[Gespenst]

Originally Posted by Nya~n

Right. Right.

Ah, but you see the new Soundstages are in the original canon. The movie also exists in canon (like how the film, Super Dimension Macross: Do You Remember Love? was also a propaganda film in the Macross continuity) The "Nanoha side" involves Nanoha going over the script and the conceptual art for the movie, I guess she's a consultant. Interestingly this also explains away the changes between the movie and the series since the people who made it are familiar with Nanoha now that has influenced how they made the film. (See here.)

Originally Posted by Tempest Dynasty

*sigh*

And we were doing so well without this...

I wish we could sage this.

Sage doesn't work like that!

...oh wait. I'm not on 4chan... like I just had a flashback.