Code Geass: Akito the Exiled OVA - Episode 2 Discussion / Poll

[azul120]

Originally Posted by Zero-2

It's like Napoleon and Bismarck (the Chancellor, not the Knight) working together. *shudders*



It shows that fate really loves Lelouch that much.

He apparently destroyed a small confederation of nations (EU), but it resulted into a larger federation being formed. Reminds me of Gundam 00's catchphrase, "Rebirth begins through destruction."

Fate loves to throw him a bone then yank it away from him. He'd be used to work against his own intentions, and only mere episodes after being able to enjoy the fruits of the reconstruction that led to the UFN, he was ousted by the Black Knights thanks to the negotiation-meister on the other side who was responsible for things breaking down for the EU in the first place, Schneizel. (Just surprised it didn't cause conflict amongst the BKs and the UFN, but then, hey, major plot hole.)

This isn't just desecrating his grave, it's taking a time machine only to subject him to random, anonymous, senseless, torture for shits and giggles and let everything else fall into place. The canon series is already a case study against writing storyline twists/conclusions/etc. without letting characters develop themselves properly, and this is just even more abuse. Guys, if you want Lelouch, either revive the guy or do a serious retcon. Tempted again to write to Okouchi/Taniguchi and company.

[Kusaja]

Originally Posted by azul120

This isn't just desecrating his grave, it's taking a time machine only to subject him to random, anonymous, senseless, torture for shits and giggles and let everything else fall into place.

It seems you were too busy beating a long dead horse with a crowbar to notice the scenes do appear to serve various purposes.

For one thing, there is no inherent contradiction with the basic facts of the original story but simply a partial revision and expansion by taking advantage of missing information. We do not have a proper in-universe explanation yet, which makes it hard to reach a final judgment, but multiple alternatives can be brought up without much trouble.

For another, the scenes involving Lelouch and Suzaku both implicitly suggest the possibility of some more Euro Britannian intrigue, as well as a mere introduction that provides foreshadowing for various scenarios that are likely to enter the picture next time around. Naturally, there is much room for speculation until the third episode is released, but that doesn't mean an informed guess can't be made.

So I don't see what "desecration" is supposedly going on here, and there isn't anything that remotely qualifies as actual "torture" either. Do you really think Lelouch is suffering in any particularly painful way here? Suzaku denying or at least delaying his access to water isn't exactly equivalent to water-boarding. Which is easily proven by the very fact he's already in perfectly good shape upon arrival at the station. Watching the episode again in English, nothing seems to refer to any drug use or anything of the sort so far.

I would also argue that Zero-2 has made an interesting observation which directly ties into the whole destruction-rebirth theme of the original show, since that concept isn't exclusive to Gundam 00 but also reminds us of previous statements reflecting Lelouch's own personal ideology. There are other thematic connections to be made as well, both recalling the events of the TV series and what's actually going on in the context of Akito. You're free to disagree, but I strongly oppose the argument that this is all "random" and "senseless" or for "shits and giggles" at this time. All signs point elsewhere, in my opinion.

Originally Posted by azul120

The canon series is already a case study against writing storyline twists/conclusions/etc. without letting characters develop themselves properly, and this is just even more abuse. Guys, if you want Lelouch, either revive the guy or do a serious retcon. Tempted again to write to Okouchi/Taniguchi and company.

Only for those who share your particular pet-peeves about the original series, which I don't, but I would say this is already part of a "serious retcon" that seems to be generally well received without much drama. Not surprisingly, even I can't agree with your premise either. Actually bringing back Lelouch through a "revival" would be far more controversial and questionable, because it'd open up a whole other set of problems. His treatment in Akito so far does not qualify as abuse if you ask me.

[Mad Pierrot]

This isn't Okouchi but Akito has death flags all over his character. As if his wish and Euro's fate weren't enough, now he could face defeat at the hands of Not Lelouch and Suzaku. I wonder how darker the next episodes could get.

[azul120]

Originally Posted by Kusaja

It seems you were too busy beating a long dead horse with a crowbar to notice the scenes do appear to serve various purposes.

For one thing, there is no inherent contradiction with the basic facts of the original story but simply a partial revision and expansion by taking advantage of missing information. We do not have a proper in-universe explanation yet, which makes it hard to reach a final judgment, but multiple alternatives can be brought up without much trouble.

For another, the scenes involving Lelouch and Suzaku both implicitly suggest the possibility of some more Euro Britannian intrigue, as well as a mere introduction that provides foreshadowing for various scenarios that are likely to enter the picture next time around. Naturally, there is much room for speculation until the third episode is released, but that doesn't mean an informed guess can't be made.

So I don't see what "desecration" is supposedly going on here, and there isn't anything that remotely qualifies as actual "torture" either. Do you really think Lelouch is suffering in any particularly painful way here? Suzaku denying or at least delaying his access to water isn't exactly equivalent to water-boarding. Which is easily proven by the very fact he's already in perfectly good shape upon arrival at the station. Watching the episode again in English, nothing seems to refer to any drug use or anything of the sort so far.

I would also argue that Zero-2 has made an interesting observation which directly ties into the whole destruction-rebirth theme of the original show, since that concept isn't exclusive to Gundam 00 but also reminds us of previous statements reflecting Lelouch's own personal ideology. There are other thematic connections to be made as well, both recalling the events of the TV series and what's actually going on in the context of Akito. You're free to disagree, but I strongly oppose the argument that this is all "random" and "senseless" or for "shits and giggles" at this time. All signs point elsewhere, in my opinion.

Lelouch may be well physically, but he's basically a shell of his regular self right now, brainwashed by the man he hates and who already used him once and abandoned him before, Charles (even if he had his reasons, they weren't all pristine), into being the very thing that he hates. Think Schneizel at the end of the show geassed into serving Zero.

As for why it's senseless, it's because of all the abuse he ALREADY suffered at the hands of the plot. It was already Deus Angst Machina. He unfortunately gets no compensatory sympathy points from anyone given that everything already established remains the same, particularly the betrayal.

Only for those who share your particular pet-peeves about the original series, which I don't, but I would say this is already part of a "serious retcon" that seems to be generally well received without much drama. Not surprisingly, even I can't agree with your premise either. Actually bringing back Lelouch through a "revival" would be far more controversial and questionable, because it'd open up a whole other set of problems. His treatment in Akito so far does not qualify as abuse if you ask me.

I was talking about how they decided Lelouch would die early on without plotting any of the relevant character arcs. Too much angst forced in his direction just so he wished for it, unbelievable plot twists, and a very questionable ending.

[Kusaja]

Originally Posted by amaterasu4

This isn't Okouchi but Akito has death flags all over his character. As if his wish and Euro's fate weren't enough, now he could face defeat at the hands of Not Lelouch and Suzaku. I wonder how darker the next episodes could get.

Akito seems to be the most obvious candidate for death, on the surface, but I think it's more likely the other Japanese characters will die and he'll survive, although obviously that requires someone else to intervene on Akito's behalf since his own mindset is rather careless. If left entirely to his own devices, he'd probably die, but I can see things turning out very differently in the end.

Originally Posted by azul120

Lelouch may be well physically, but he's basically a shell of his regular self right now, brainwashed by the man he hates and who already used him once and abandoned him before, Charles (even if he had his reasons, they weren't all pristine), into being the very thing that he hates. Think Schneizel at the end of the show geassed into serving Zero.

As for why it's senseless, it's because of all the abuse he ALREADY suffered at the hands of the plot. It was already Deus Angst Machina. He unfortunately gets no compensatory sympathy points from anyone given that everything already established remains the same, particularly the betrayal.

I believe Schneizel is arguably in a worse state, since he is actively compelled to remain a slave to Zero forever.

Julius Kingsley's whole memories have probably been rewritten, or so we tend to assume at this point, but other than that he'd have more freedom of thought despite his base personal background being twisted and tinkered with. What we'd have here is effectively Lelouch as a Britannian general. It would be much closer to his status at the beginning of R2, where he was just a common student but still had thought processes that were similar to those of his original personality, even right before C.C. kissed him and brought the memories back.

I'm sure Lelouch won't like that, but you're implying he'll suddenly suffer from a ton of additional "angst" over this...which I highly doubt, quite frankly, since the major sources of his angst are Suzaku, Nunnally and, by extension, Charles/Marianne. Whatever happens to him will just add a bit of anger to the equation, which he already has plenty of against Suzaku and Charles, but won't even come close to breaking him down. Quite the contrary.

What sort of sympathy would you expect Lelouch to receive for this? He isn't one to ask for it at every turn. The man only asked for sympathy two or three times from very specific individuals across 50 episodes and that all had to do with more pressing and painful matters. Not just being a brainwashed student or, say, a brainwashed strategist. He had no "ah, woe is me that I was brainwashed and given a fake brother!" moments at all.

Even in the worst case scenario, just doing more of what the original show did is already appropriate since the theme will continue in R2. It's an established fact.

I was talking about how they decided Lelouch would die early on without plotting any of the relevant character arcs. Too much angst forced in his direction just so he wished for it, unbelievable plot twists, and a very questionable ending.

I know, but I don't agree with most of that statement either. News at 11. But thankfully, this isn't an R2 thread.

[azul120]

Originally Posted by Kusaja

I believe Schneizel is arguably in a worse state, since he is actively compelled to remain a slave to Zero forever.

Julius Kingsley's whole memories have probably been rewritten, or so we tend to assume at this point, but other than that he'd have more freedom of thought despite his base personal background being twisted and tinkered with. What we'd have here is effectively Lelouch as a Britannian general. It would be much closer to his status at the beginning of R2, where he was just a common student but still had thought processes that were similar to those of his original personality, even right before C.C. kissed him and brought the memories back.

I'm sure Lelouch won't like that, but you're implying he'll suddenly suffer from a ton of additional "angst" over this...which I highly doubt, quite frankly, since the major sources of his angst are Suzaku, Nunnally and, by extension, Charles/Marianne. Whatever happens to him will just add a bit of anger to the equation, which he already has plenty of against Suzaku and Charles, but won't even come close to breaking him down. Quite the contrary.

True, but anything on top of too much is still too much. Lelouch is still being forced into the type of mindset and path he hates, even if there are elements of himself still present.

(On an OT note, Schneizel could become free in a Zeroth Law of Rebellion kind of way.)

What sort of sympathy would you expect Lelouch to receive for this? He isn't one to ask for it at every turn. The man only asked for sympathy two or three times from very specific individuals across 50 episodes and that all had to do with more pressing and painful matters. Not just being a brainwashed student or, say, a brainwashed strategist. He had no "ah, woe is me that I was brainwashed and given a fake brother!" moments at all.

Even in the worst case scenario, just doing more of what the original show did is already appropriate since the theme will continue in R2. It's an established fact.

Which is true, and admirable on Lelouch's part. Still doesn't detract from Lelouch getting life's short end. He still catches flak from the BKs during the betrayal for going AWOL and using them as pawns when at the same time he couldn't entirely help getting waylaid due to his capture and altered memories, which also now involve him as a Britannian general, something anathema to him.

And just because something was appropriate to the follow-up in question, namely Lelouch getting used and abused, doesn't make it right, especially when it was overkill. The latter is a sign that you don't need anymore to begin with.

I know, but I don't agree with most of that statement either. News at 11. But thankfully, this isn't an R2 thread.

What do you mean? Sounds a little self-contradicting.

[ImperialFlameGod8190]

For a code geass spinoff overall i'd say this is quite poor. 3 things made Code Geass the show it was. The charisma of the Main character. The usage of multiple intricate plot devices that mold together perfectly. The fact that even the minor characters all had substance to them.
Code Geass r1 instantly grabs you with a nice little plot and after 2 episodes i'd say most people were never gonna drop it. The first episode for this was terrible. the 2nd was better but not great.

This one seems to lack the multiple plot devices. The MC seems more to be the girl then akito. The minor characters so far lack any substance and honestly it was predictable what would happen through the first 2 episodes. Only one thing is keeping this show even slightly interesting. Akito is a dark little bastard and that's really all they have. Sadly like most people until the fighting this was pure garbage

[Kusaja]

Originally Posted by ImperialFlameGod8190

This one seems to lack the multiple plot devices. The MC seems more to be the girl then akito. The minor characters so far lack any substance and honestly it was predictable what would happen through the first 2 episodes. Only one thing is keeping this show even slightly interesting. Akito is a dark little bastard and that's really all they have.Sadly like most people until the fighting this was pure garbage.

I'm not going to argue about what you find "interesting" or not since my opinion couldn't be more different from yours to begin with, for multiple reasons, but I will say that expecting this to be exactly the same as the original series seems rather counter-productive and unnecessary. It's a spin-off precisely because it is different rather than just repeating everything. You don't like what they did, fine, but others would disagree. Fortunately, I believe you are misrepresenting what "most people" think about this.

[ImperialFlameGod8190]

Originally Posted by Kusaja

I'm not going to argue about what you find "interesting" or not since my opinion couldn't be more different from yours to begin with, for multiple reasons, but I will say that expecting this to be exactly the same as the original series seems rather counter-productive and unnecessary. It's a spin-off precisely because it is different rather than just repeating everything. You don't like what they did, fine, but others would disagree. Fortunately, I believe you are misrepresenting what "most people" think about this.

expecting it to be exactly the same not quite but I expected a little bit more. Perhaps what I believe about the original Code Geass is different from most but I have to admit until that little fight scene in episode this was an extreme letdown IMO and episode 1 was terrible.
The blonde girl is rather boring and akito is the only fun thing about it so far maybe i'll give one more episode. O and Suzaku and the lelouch clone was absolutely revolting

[GundamFan0083]

Originally Posted by ImperialFlameGod8190

expecting it to be exactly the same not quite but I expected a little bit more. Perhaps what I believe about the original Code Geass is different from most but I have to admit until that little fight scene in episode this was an extreme letdown IMO and episode 1 was terrible.
The blonde girl is rather boring and akito is the only fun thing about it so far maybe i'll give one more episode. O and Suzaku and the lelouch clone was absolutely revolting

You liked it more than I did.

[ImperialFlameGod8190]

Originally Posted by GundamFan0083

You liked it more than I did.

sad part is I rated it a 4 out of 10

[Kusaja]

First week sales for Code Geass Akito the Exiled 2.

BD: 24,134 (Akito 1 had 24,507)

DVD: 2,682 (Akito 1 had 2,818)

Sources:

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...december-23-29

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...december-23-29

Basically the same people who bought the first part continued to buy the second.

[ZeroSama]

OMG a wild Lelouch has appeared AtE might actually be worth watching now.

[GundamFan0083]

Originally Posted by ImperialFlameGod8190

sad part is I rated it a 4 out of 10

I would have rated it higher if Lelouch wasn't in it and the whole Geass of Shin Hyuga wasn't one that supposedly makes you kill yourself, yet Akito is still alive.
To me, that screams of a Retcon and a piss poor one at that.

[ImperialFlameGod8190]

Originally Posted by GundamFan0083

I would have rated it higher if Lelouch wasn't in it and the whole Geass of Shin Hyuga wasn't one that supposedly makes you kill yourself, yet Akito is still alive.
To me, that screams of a Retcon and a piss poor one at that.

I literally rated it 4 for one reason. Akito going batshit crazy at the end because I rather enjoyed that. The characters are all awful and the small bit of fanservice maybe gave it 1 pt. The flaws in the storyline are rather apparent and really the sad fact is most of it is painfully predictable. When they first found the kids in Episode 1. I almost knew that the girl would allow them to join the group. Everyone watching the show pretty much knew those kids would betray him it was just a question of how. Well either way I may give it one more episode just for sheer curiousity. It lacks almost everything that made code geass good.

[Kusaja]

Which is ironic, from my point of view, since I think the storytelling being "predictable" is not a flaw at all. Plenty of stories are considered to be good despite being very unsurprising in the end. Trying to surprise the viewer doesn't have to be the main goal. That also means unpredictable events aren't necessarily better either.

In fact, sometimes they're more of a liability, and as much as I liked Code Geass we could have used a few less twists along the way. In this case even the show itself points out that the Japanese characters are going to be disloyal and rebellious, so that's not exactly something the narrative is trying to hide. That said, there were some unexpected details, in my view, which did make things interesting. I'm sure that doesn't apply to you, since you think everyone is "awful" but I happen to disagree with that judgment too.

Perhaps you find it hard to be excited without having constant twists and turns, but I have no such issues. In any case, I'm glad this continues to do well.

[ImperialFlameGod8190]

Originally Posted by Kusaja

Which is ironic, from my point of view, since I think the storytelling being "predictable" is not a flaw at all. Plenty of stories are considered to be good despite being very unsurprising in the end. Trying to surprise the viewer doesn't have to be the main goal. That also means unpredictable events aren't necessarily better either.

In fact, sometimes they're more of a liability, and as much as I liked Code Geass we could have used a few less twists along the way. In this case even the show itself points out that the Japanese characters are going to be disloyal and rebellious, so that's not exactly something the narrative is trying to hide. That said, there were some unexpected details, in my view, which did make things interesting. I'm sure that doesn't apply to you, since you think everyone is "awful" but I happen to disagree with that judgment too.

Perhaps you find it hard to be excited without having constant twists and turns, but I have no such issues. In any case, I'm glad this continues to do well.

I don't find predictability as a flaw. What I am saying is the story has some flaws and separately most of the storyline is predictable.

The fact there were many twists in code geass is something I enjoyed feel free to disagree. I don't think everyone is awful at all.

I don't need a lot of twists to make it exciting but I also don't want it to be relatively predictable I like a balance of surprise and predictability.

[GundamFan0083]

Originally Posted by ImperialFlameGod8190

I literally rated it 4 for one reason. Akito going batshit crazy at the end because I rather enjoyed that. The characters are all awful and the small bit of fanservice maybe gave it 1 pt. The flaws in the storyline are rather apparent and really the sad fact is most of it is painfully predictable. When they first found the kids in Episode 1. I almost knew that the girl would allow them to join the group. Everyone watching the show pretty much knew those kids would betray him it was just a question of how. Well either way I may give it one more episode just for sheer curiousity. It lacks almost everything that made code geass good.

I agree and am glad I'm not the only one who sees these flaws.

[Chaos Knight]

Originally Posted by GundamFan0083

I would have rated it higher if Lelouch wasn't in it and the whole Geass of Shin Hyuga wasn't one that supposedly makes you kill yourself, yet Akito is still alive.
To me, that screams of a Retcon and a piss poor one at that.

This is just a speculation, but what if the reason Shin's geass didn't affect Akito the same way it did with the others, has something do with Akito age and not understanding the concept of the geass placed on him.

If this is what happened, it may explain how he survived and how the geass placed on him may have screwed with his mind over the years.

[Kusaja]

That's an entirely valid possibility, Chaos Knight. We have already seen the ability to resist, (re-)interpret or outright break a command during the original Code Geass story, for the record, so that's far from being a "retcon" of any sort.

I don't think it's particularly hard to explain either, even if the incident hasn't been addressed in detail yet. Akito himself seems to believe he has already died, which is consistent with the command still being active and what little we've seen of the flashback where Shin in fact ordered him to "die" years ago, regardless of whatever might have truly happened.

Originally Posted by ImperialFlameGod8190

I don't find predictability as a flaw. What I am saying is the story has some flaws and separately most of the storyline is predictable.

The fact there were many twists in code geass is something I enjoyed feel free to disagree. I don't think everyone is awful at all.

I don't need a lot of twists to make it exciting but I also don't want it to be relatively predictable I like a balance of surprise and predictability.

Well, I'm just going off what you wrote before.

If you meant something else, then I could have misunderstood. I'm afraid your previous posts might not have been specific enough either.