Ok, at SOME point in a time dimension, the Archer of Rin was NOT Shirou. Or Rin didn't even have Archer, anyway, this can vary from just Rin's Archer to the whole servant distribution (or maybe Shirou didn't even take PART in the war, although I don't believe that's suggested anywhere). Anyway, these experiences and what transpired in THAT time dimension, shaped Shirou into the Archer we all know (with the spoilers though). Somehow Heroic Spirits have access to different time periods so Shirou/Archer was summoned by Rin to a time dimension which for Shirou/Archer resembles the past. Since Archer appears there, he shapes everyone's reactions, Rin's, Shirou's, Saber's etc etc and has certain effect on their memories and experiences and probable effect on their personalities. Which means that the future for that particular time dimension cannot be derived from Shirou/Archer's experience, since his experiences were from a different past and a different future.
It can be easily seen as such : I live my life for 10 years, then go back in time to warn myself about things he doesn't know and advise him to change course. Can I predict my future from then on? No, since myself in the past will have 10 years worth of knowledge, which I didn't have when I was living those 10 years in the first place.
Like if I take part in a lottery, LOSE, remain poor but see the winning number, then travel to the past and tell that to myself. Myself will use the winning number and WIN the lottery, with everything this implies.
If you guys really want to understand how this kind of thing works, I highly recommend reading SF Chronophysics. You should also probably read "The Time Ships" by Stephen Baxter, which is a pseudo-sequel to H.G.Wells' "The Time Machine".
Ok, at SOME point in a time dimension, the Archer of Rin was NOT Shirou. Or Rin didn't even have Archer, anyway, this can vary from just Rin's Archer to the whole servant distribution (or maybe Shirou didn't even take PART in the war, although I don't believe that's suggested anywhere). Anyway, these experiences and what transpired in THAT time dimension, shaped Shirou into the Archer we all know (with the spoilers though). Somehow Heroic Spirits have access to different time periods so Shirou/Archer was summoned by Rin to a time dimension which for Shirou/Archer resembles the past. Since Archer appears there, he shapes everyone's reactions, Rin's, Shirou's, Saber's etc etc and has certain effect on their memories and experiences and probable effect on their personalities. Which means that the future for that particular time dimension cannot be derived from Shirou/Archer's experience, since his experiences were from a different past and a different future.
It can be easily seen as such : I live my life for 10 years, then go back in time to warn myself about things he doesn't know and advise him to change course. Can I predict my future from then on? No, since myself in the past will have 10 years worth of knowledge, which I didn't have when I was living those 10 years in the first place.
Like if I take part in a lottery, LOSE, remain poor but see the winning number, then travel to the past and tell that to myself. Myself will use the winning number and WIN the lottery, with everything this implies.
Just to sum up everything, it's something called an alternate timeline. By changing the past from the future, the outcome is that there is a new branch on the tree (metaphor), and therefore, things will be different this time round.
I dont see how Archer's heroic spirit (name shall not be mentioned) had base abilities at archery before becoming Archer? I do believe Archer's heroic spirit only gained his archery skills AFTER becoming Archer. Unless its some kind of game spoiler?
And personally, Archer would had been better if he was a Saber/Berserker class instead, since the 2 classes would enhance his capabilities (in theory anyways) in combat.
Well since my last post was deleted and I need to retort yes it was a game spoiler. Archer wouldnt have been a better berserker because a Berserker is all strength minus sanity and from what we have seen Archer relies on tactics a lot to achieve his victory also. Saber class he could pass off for it if he was chosen.
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Wow what a great ep while not my fav charcter Archer was still a cool guy. He put up one hell of a fight to take on Berserker toe to toe with out backing down deserves some attention. I mean little miss loli had to asked several times are you taking it easy on him? If you have to go down i say go down like that. a move like UTW that can kill one of the greatest heros of all time 5 times is monster. I am wondering how Archers defeat is going to affect Rin her Servant is gone before she really had a chance to do anything, also how is this going to effect Shirou and Rins relationship. Oh well gave it 10 of course
I agree if you have to go down you might as well go down like that. Taking down a guy like Heracles 5 times is an impressive thing to do. Sure I'd have liked him to win, but considering you have to topple this guy 12 times it didn't seem likely.
It'll be interesting to see how Rin moves after this loss. True she can now put entire support behind Shirou since she isn't up against him anymore. Though I wonder how Shirou will take this. It was his fault he got captured and Archer had to fight in order to allow their retreat.
Well it doesn't appear like there is an easy car way there. maybe they should've left Saber behind. Then Shirou and Rin could've gotten away faster and Archer could've made a break for it.
Indeed, killing Berserker 5 times is a great merit, however if I recalled correctly...
Spoiler for Fate scenario:
In the Fate scenario, he killed Berserker 6 times, without Unlimited Blade Works. And the fact that Archer in Fate has no memories of his past is a big handicap for him, considering the fact that the Noble Phantasm's he's capable of imaging in Fate is reduced by half.
Considering this anime's Archer argubly has some of his memories, it'd would've been a million times sexier if he used stuff like...
Spoiler:
Lancer's Gae Bolg, Heracle's giant sword, Excalibur and all the Noble Phantasm of his previous opponents.
Now that would've been a wild fight. Especially since he probably could've annihilated Berserker with that kind of ability. THough I don't think the giant sword thing would work out well, I mean would he be able to swing that thing?
Indeed, killing Berserker 5 times is a great merit, however if I recalled correctly...
Spoiler for Fate scenario:
In the Fate scenario, he killed Berserker 6 times, without Unlimited Blade Works. And the fact that Archer in Fate has no memories of his past is a big handicap for him, considering the fact that the Noble Phantasm's he's capable of imaging in Fate is reduced by half.
Considering this anime's Archer argubly has some of his memories, it'd would've been a million times sexier if he used stuff like...
Spoiler:
Lancer's Gae Bolg, Heracle's giant sword, Excalibur and all the Noble Phantasm of his previous opponents.
Spoiler:
Does this mean that the anime isn't following the Fate route exactly? Since Archer had his memories and used Unlimited Blade Works against Berserker?
If you think about it, Rin and Saber should have called the cops and medias about the kidnapping. Since the holy grail war cannot be seen by others, they can rescue Shiro safely. Berserker can't kill all the interference without exposing their identity.
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