[Manga] Naruto Chapter 532 Discussion

[Alchemist007]

Sometimes I forget Naruto has many more details than Bleach.

[MidnightViper88]

Originally Posted by Alchemist007

I find it awkward that Kishi is making Hanzou out to be a not so bad guy. He did go along with kidnapping Konan just to get Yahiko to kill himself.

Hanzo is a weird character...He's a manipulative bastard who took a Machiavellian lesson in virtue to launch himself in a position of power and infamy by taking the time to destroy those that stood in his way, but he has his own specific set of morals and is willing to respect strong-willed opponents who he just defeated with a ironic dose of mercy...I'm sure if Nagato/Yahiko/Konan stood their ground and survived a fight against Hanzo instead of going with the suicide/deus ex combo, he might have let them live in infamy like Jiraiya/Orochimaru/Tsunade were allowed to, all while Hanzo still remains victorious in another step forward in power...Well, Nagato eventually did achieve infamy when he assassinated Hanzo as Pain, but that's something different...

If I were to take anything out of it, all things aside of Hanzo as a villain, he's disgusted by cowardice but will herald those who have faith-based honor...He got defeated by someone who held more honor than even himself, and he respect that with an acceptance of defeat...He's already "dead", so any aspects of virtue obtained through life would no longer apply to his character...

I don't find it as awkward as I would an explanation after long last why the hell someone like Hanzo would even spare the Sannin even after their defeat, and how they came to be heralded as heroes in Konoha...

...and even an explanation of why Hanzo had to wear a mask...I wonder, when he has to breath heavily with it on, does he make Vader-like HOOOOO-HAAAAA sounds?

Whatever...Still glad Mifune wasn't given a crap stick and "won" without outside intervention (As far as combat efforts go, anyway)...

[Ulquiorra]

So we are left with a cliffhanger for the next two weeks. So what happens?

These seem to be the choices.

A) Ino-Shika-Cho take the attack. It's epic A to S ranked jutsu and badly messes them up to the point of death. Ino gets a scar which ruins her future modeling career. Shikamaru's hair finally comes down increasing his bishie factor by 10. Choji begins cutting himself for being a humongous failure,
B) Shikamaru does something. He's the ninja MacGyver.
C) Someone else stops the attack. Temari seems to be the only one capable of this with her fan. Easy to explain that she followed Shika and Choji. I've seen Tenten using the banana fan mentioned, but she doesn't really fit with this. Team 8 and Neji should be around since they are part of the Second Division, but again they don't fit.
D) They all dodge it. This is the least likely. It's a wind jutsu called dust storm which should encompass a huge area. And why would Kishi hype it with a cliffhanger if they are just going to dodge it?

[Kotengu]

Originally Posted by MidnightViper88

Hanzo is a weird character...He's a manipulative bastard who took a Machiavellian lesson in virtue to launch himself in a position of power and infamy by taking the time to destroy those that stood in his way, but he has his own specific set of morals and is willing to respect strong-willed opponents who he just defeated with a ironic dose of mercy.

Hanzo's later behavior was Machiavellian. Especially when he teamed up with Danzo and was assassinating people while hiding from the public. However his belief system is more Nietzschean (at least the way he describes it). Dispite this HUGE idealogical contradiction, Hanzo comes of as a strangely balanced and romanticized (Similar to Zabuza). Hanzo gives the impression that his 'Faith' is that he will bring 'Peace' to the world by conquering it. This has strong ties to Nietzsche's example of the Ubermench concept of overcoming man(or humanity as a concept in and of itself). In this regard, I think that Hanzo showing 'Mercy' to his defeated opponents is more about aggrandizing himself than respecting strong opponents. This makes him a much cooler villan, who's transition into a paranoid tyrant is more believable as eventually stepping on others to get where you are going becomes more about who you've stepped on, than where you are going.

I know that this is allot to extrapolate from the little we've actually seen of Hanzo, but it does fit, and it makes him a very interesting character with development sorely lacking in the other characters of the Narutoverse.

[DeDe]

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

So we are left with a cliffhanger for the next two weeks. So what happens?

These seem to be the choices.

A) Ino-Shika-Cho take the attack. It's epic A to S ranked jutsu and badly messes them up to the point of death. Ino gets a scar which ruins her future modeling career. Shikamaru's hair finally comes down increasing his bishie factor by 10. Choji begins cutting himself for being a humongous failure,
B) Shikamaru does something. He's the ninja MacGyver.
C) Someone else stops the attack. Temari seems to be the only one capable of this with her fan. Easy to explain that she followed Shika and Choji. I've seen Tenten using the banana fan mentioned, but she doesn't really fit with this. Team 8 and Neji should be around since they are part of the Second Division, but again they don't fit.
D) They all dodge it. This is the least likely. It's a wind jutsu called dust storm which should encompass a huge area. And why would Kishi hype it with a cliffhanger if they are just going to dodge it?

I'd prefer C) or B). Temari would be perfect for C). B) Shikamaru hasn't really done much given his status in the manga. So you are just waiting for him to do something. But this fight seems to be about Choji's emotions. Asuma wasn't that big of a threat. He should play a bigger role against the Kages so we can see why he was made a proxy general.

A) Will likely happen. Kishi wants to ratchet up the drama. Either someone steps in and counters the jutsu or they get hit. They won't get hurt that badly. Element jutsu does not have a good track record in the manga. But this is Asuma's last chance to show how powerful he was.

It looks like Kishi will use the Kakuzu fight as the less important page filler fight in between this one which is the main event.

Originally Posted by Kotengu

I know that this is allot to extrapolate from the little we've actually seen of Hanzo, but it does fit, and it makes him a very interesting character with development sorely lacking in the other characters of the Narutoverse.

Hanzou is bound by his status as a tertiary character. So there was only so much Kishi could do with him.

I do assume we will see Kimimaro(a character higher on the food chain) also have his belief system challenged and shattered.

[Hunter]

It's nothing so complicated really, the Hanzo we saw in this flashback was the young Hanzo who still possessed a strong will, a pure heart and the dream to change the world.
The Hanzo in Nagato's flashback was old, he had already been broken by the ninja world, he had given up his dreams and had become fearful and paranoiac of young upstarts possessing the will and dream he once had.
His strength weakened along with his spirit.

This is a classic Shonen moral, that's what Gaara's speech to the old cynical Kage was already about when he asked them when they had all lost their values.

[Ulquiorra]

^ Yeah, it's classic shonen. The worst thing a character in shonen can do is lose their ideals.

Originally Posted by DeDe

I do assume we will see Kimimaro(a character higher on the food chain) also have his belief system challenged and shattered.

So will Lee or Juugo be Mifune to Kimi's Hanzou?

Back to Choji. While he is annoying, his role is important. Kishimoto had to show one of the Konoha 11 cracking under the pressure. It would be silly to expect every character to be okay when people are getting killed. This is their first war. Using Hinata, Ino, or Sakura would have been cliche. Sakura already cracked against Sasuke. Kiba, Neji, Shino, Rock Lee, Temari, Tenten, etc, are all characters Kishi cares little about to varying degress. He seems to prefer Team 10 when he wants to show character development.

I actually thought it would be Shikamaru who would freak out about facing Asuma given how much Kishi invested in their relationship. But he has been strangely calm about the whole matter.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by Hunter

It's nothing so complicated really, the Hanzo we saw in this flashback was the young Hanzo who still possessed a strong will, a pure heart and the dream to change the world.
The Hanzo in Nagato's flashback was old, he had already been broken by the ninja world, he had given up his dreams and had become fearful and paranoiac of young upstarts possessing the will and dream he once had.

I think the issue some are having is the lack of a timeline between events. We are not really all that clearly told about what happened and when. Without that timeline, people have trouble seeing that idea that Hanzou started out as a idealistic youth and turned into a paranoid tyrant over time and instead just see him bouncing back and forth between personalities.

[james0246]

^Idealistic Hanzou = young, shirtless and buff; attacking his foes with his Pectorals of Doom.

Cynical Hanzou = old, clothed and frail; attacking people from a safe distance with other washed-up has-beens.

It's a pretty obvious difference to me...

[Seraphis]

I always wondered why Hanzo wore that mask. I was not disappointed by the explanation.

Rather liked this chapter .

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

Back to Choji. While he is annoying, his role is important. Kishimoto had to show one of the Konoha 11 cracking under the pressure. It would be silly to expect every character to be okay when people are getting killed.

I actually found Chouji's reaction completely natural too. Afterall, this was Kabuto's purpose in letting the Edo summons keep their personalities: to mess with their opponents' minds, to make people who knew them in life hesitate to attack. It's finally working with Chouji. Of course, I agree with Rahan that this failure is probably going to lead to Chouji overcoming his emotions and doing something heroic to protect his friends.

I actually thought it would be Shikamaru who would freak out about facing Asuma given how much Kishi invested in their relationship. But he has been strangely calm about the whole matter.

Shika's too logical to crack under the pressure. When he's steeled his nerves that's it. It's all business from there. But Chouji's the most kind-hearted of the trio as mentioned by Asuma, so he has trouble keeping his emotions in check.

Originally Posted by Seraphis

I always wondered why Hanzo wore that mask. I was not disappointed by the explanation.

Rather liked this chapter .

It also explains why the various Rain ninja from early in the story wore them. I guess it was sort of a tribute to Hanzo? Or if they actually served under him, they wore it to withstand the poison.

[Sasheks]

If not Temari (which would be nice), prolly Shikamaru will save Chouji's ass.

Chouji isn't ready for this yet. He needs to get back to "find the kitten" missions.

[Vindi89]

I haven't seen this mentioned but.. Hanzou was revived with a poisonous sack he implanted in himself. Does this mean Nagato will be revived with the rinnegan?

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Vindi89

I haven't seen this mentioned but.. Hanzou was revived with a poisonous sack he implanted in himself. Does this mean Nagato will be revived with the rinnegan?

Yup. Kabuto confirmed that he was rezzed with Rinnegan awhile back.

[Xagzan]

Madara had one of the Rinnegan eyes in him though, last I remember. So Nagato's only gonna have 1 too. And whether or not lacking both eyes together makes him weaker, who knows.

[Hunter]

Nagato will have both his eyes and so will Itachi just like Deidara and Sasori had their bodies back and Kakazu was still a sack of goo.

[Alchemist007]

Originally Posted by Hunter

It's nothing so complicated really, the Hanzo we saw in this flashback was the young Hanzo who still possessed a strong will, a pure heart and the dream to change the world.
The Hanzo in Nagato's flashback was old, he had already been broken by the ninja world, he had given up his dreams and had become fearful and paranoiac of young upstarts possessing the will and dream he once had.
His strength weakened along with his spirit.

This is a classic Shonen moral, that's what Gaara's speech to the old cynical Kage was already about when he asked them when they had all lost their values.

Ah back to the origins of it all. It was Pein's fault because it was Hanzou's fault because...and it's the cycle of hatred produced by war. And now it's this generation's crack at it.

[kk2extreme]

Hanzo and Danzo is not so different in personality after all.

Young Danzo = handsome, awesome, ambitious

Old Danzo = cripple, wrinkle, senile, and packed with sharingan (not a pretty sight)

On the other hand, old Hanzou seems to look much better in comparison

[DeDe]

I was just looking around some other forums and I don't think I've seen a more negative fan reaction to a Naruto character than what Choji is getting.

[oompa loompa]

Normally I wouldn't really like this type of thing; you know, somewhat random and unimportant characters taking up chapters. On the other hand, since its naruto, I'll forgive it;

Whether intentional or not, its emphasizing something about the naruto world, and this huuugee epic tale ( It really only struck me now; just how long and what a struggle each of the main characters has gone through, and how they've grown and changed, as well as the entire mood of the series. Slowly, but surely Kishi has tried to mature the characters, from their personalities to their lives ).

Anyways, these little fights just keep emphasizing how difficult it is to paint a 'villain', and how multi layered people can be, tying in great to the whole naruto 'dilemma'.