(L) Zaregoto Series (Light Novel discussion)

[Makall]

What's the likelihood of an anime adaptation?

[Kunagisa]

Originally Posted by Makall

What's the likelihood of an anime adaptation?

Next to 0. Rumor has it that Nisio doesn't want this to be animated, and I do agree it would be incredibly hard to be animated.

I HOPE the Ningen "spin off" (the series share the same world view) eventually will get animated though as it has more action in it.

[Tyabann]

I just finished the second book and holy shit.

Really sad about there never being an anime, since there will clearly never be a translation of this series.

[Arabesque]

I guess I might as well ask: Opinion on Mikoko?

Also, the X/Y thing ... do you buy it?

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Really sad about there never being an anime, since there will clearly never be a translation of this series.

It's a pity the series never got popular in the English LN community (we were lucky we ever got the second volume translated in the first place) but I think there is a high chance of an anime coming along. The series is apparently popular enough, and with Nision properties selling like hot cakes, I guess there is a good chance we might get one in the near future. At least, for Kunagisa's mind's sake ... <.<

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Arabesque

I guess I might as well ask: Opinion on Mikoko?

I don't think she really deserved what happened to her. Muimi, either.

Originally Posted by Arabesque

Also, the X/Y thing ... do you buy it?

Only reason I found this thread was because I was looking for an answer regarding that.

Originally Posted by Arabesque

The series is apparently popular enough, and with Nision properties selling like hot cakes, I guess there is a good chance we might get one in the near future. At least, for Kunagisa's mind's sake ... <.<

Kodansha apparently has ten Nisio anime projects lined up, and only two are unaccounted for... one of them will almost definitely be his new book, and Zaregoto would definitely end up being multiple projects... I can't see it happening.

[Arabesque]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

I don't think she really deserved what happened to her. Muimi, either.

Really? Even after what she did to Tomoe?(well, okay Tomoe isn't entirely without blame but still ...) I can get Muimi and Akiharu, but really?

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Only reason I found this thread was because I was looking for an answer regarding that.

And do you actually believe it?

For the record, I still can't believe anyone would look at that and think ''yeah, that look like X and Y alright''

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Kodansha apparently has ten Nisio anime projects lined up, and only two are unaccounted for... one of them will almost definitely be his new book, and Zaregoto would definitely end up being multiple projects... I can't see it happening.

Well, they might be saving it as a surprise ...

or I should really just give up hope already. Le sigh ...

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Arabesque

Really?

She deserved punishment, sure, but she sure as hell didn't deserve that.

Spoiler for strangulation romanticist:

Ii-chan is sort of like Iago from Othello, isn't he? Killing people indirectly through the power of words... and he says he hates murderers.

Originally Posted by Arabesque

For the record, I still can't believe anyone would look at that and think ''yeah, that look like X and Y alright''

It would probably work better in an anime. Funny, isn't it?

[Qilin]

Just finished the first translated novel, and I enjoyed it thoroughly. It contained much of the chararacteristic quibbling I'd expect from a Nisioisin work, but it helped flesh out the characters in full twisted detail. But still, the mystery itself was quite the page turner.

I believed that I knew what I was getting into when I heard this novel was a standard British-style mystery, but I was mistaken. While it did follow the genre conventions (corpse switching, impersonation, sealed rooms, etc.), the ultimate solution was crazy enough to impart an widely different impression from what I was expecting.

Another thing that impressed me is the amount of depth that went into developing the different characters. As I mentioned, this is mediated by each character's chronic verbal diarrhea. No character can be understood completely by face value alone, and that's what I love about it. Everyone has their own motivations that are left vague, making it sort of like a puzzle to solve. Though arguably, I'd say that the biggest mystery in all this is Ii-chan himself.

I'll be starting with The Kubishime Romanticist soon, and I hope it'll top the first volume. From hearsay, this is where the series begins showing it's true colors, and about time too since I still can't guess where this will all lead to.

Here's to wishing volumes 4 up to 9 finally getting a much needed translation. Otherwise, an anime adaptation would be lovely, though the priority seems to be on the -monogatari series for now. I find this story more interesting than Bakemonogatari at least.

[Westlo]

You mean volumes 3 to 9 get translated don't you?

[Shikijin]

Phew. Finally managed to finish Nekosogi Radical part 3. Now on with the spin-offs. Another 1600 pages to go And Nisio is still writing

[Qilin]

Originally Posted by Westlo

You mean volumes 3 to 9 get translated don't you?

Well, there is a translation of volume 3 somewhere in the net, so I'm not as worried about that. Of course, it isn't an "official" translation, but I'm willing to take whatever I can get given the current state of things.

But really. I'm dying to know what everything is leading up to, without having to taint myself with spoilers.


EDIT:

Finally done with volume 2, and wow. This one was even more relentless with it's verbose dialogue than the first one, though I admit that I found this one more interesting. For one thing, this volume placed a greater emphasis on Ii-chan's characterization, and boy. That was a truly glorious mess if there ever was one.

If anything, the actual murders were just plot devices used to convey just how much of a human failure he is.

Spoiler for Ii-chan:

Ii-chan is probably close to being an actual psychopath. His extreme indifference, coupled with his lack of empathy, seem to be indicative of this. These traits alone suggest that he is quite capable of killing others if he wasn't so adept at controlling himself. Mainly because he expresses strong aversion towards murder to remind himself of what he must not become. Of course, Zerozaki is the exception to this.

It's pure brilliance, I'd say. Ii-chan's strong condemnation for the act of killing someone out of passion is a product of him being unable to comprehend human emotions. In that sense, Zerozaki's habit of killing out of habit, without any need for justification or pretense, was much more palatable.

Unlike in Kubikiri Cycle, Kunagisa is largely absent in this volume, which already presents a stark difference between the two volumes. Kunagisa is sort of like a morality pet that keeps the reader from drawing attention to Ii-chan's incredibly messed-up personality. Here, we get to see him exposed in all its twisted glory.

I wonder what the hell happened to him in America. Something might have happened to him there to reduce him to such a state. Or, it might be even scarier if he was like that ever since before...

(As a side note, "Damaged Goods" seems like an awkward translation if there ever was one)

[Shikijin]

Originally Posted by Qilin

Well, there is a translation of volume 3 somewhere in the net, so I'm not as worried about that. Of course, it isn't an "official" translation, but I'm willing to take whatever I can get given the current state of things.

That translation is incomplete, the translator has been inactive for long periods, and the third is even the shortest book in the series. I suggest you to start learning Japanese, in the long period it will do you plenty of good (try simpler stuff before Zaregoto though).

Spoiler for Ii-chan:

Ii-chan is probably close to being an actual psychopath. His extreme indifference, coupled with his lack of empathy, seem to be indicative of this. These traits alone suggest that he is quite capable of killing others if he wasn't so adept at controlling himself. Mainly because he expresses strong aversion towards murder to remind himself of what he must not become. Of course, Zerozaki is the exception to this.

No, the psychopath is Zerozaki. Even Jun Aikawa has some psychopathic traits in her, though she is definitively not a psychopath. Ii-chan is a schizoid. The distinction between a psychopath and a schizoid seems to puzzle many people (the psychopath may not feel anything, but he feigns emotions so he generally appears even more emotive than normal people), but it suffices to say Ii-chan has a bigger sense of guilt than people credit him for, especially once you get past what he says.

Maybe it's me, but I think volume 2 is understood better when read a second time.

(As a side note, "Damaged Goods" seems like an awkward translation if there ever was one)

It is a correct translation, though.

欠陥製品

欠陥 【けっかん】 (n) (1) defect, fault, deficiency, deformity, (2) shortage, gap, (P)
製品 【せいひん】 (n) manufactured goods, finished goods, product, (P)

[Qilin]

Originally Posted by Shikijin

That translation is incomplete, the translator has been inactive for long periods, and the third is even the shortest book in the series. I suggest you to start learning Japanese, in the long period it will do you plenty of good (try simpler stuff before Zaregoto though).

How depressing. Now, I find yet another light novel series that I won't be able to enjoy without being able to read Japanese.

Originally Posted by Shikijin

Spoiler for Ii-chan:

No, the psychopath is Zerozaki. Even Jun Aikawa has some psychopathic traits in her, though she is definitively not a psychopath. Ii-chan is a schizoid. The distinction between a psychopath and a schizoid seems to puzzle many people (the psychopath may not feel anything, but he feigns emotions so he generally appears even more emotive than normal people), but it suffices to say Ii-chan has a bigger sense of guilt than people credit him for, especially once you get past what he says.

Maybe it's me, but I think volume 2 is understood better when read a second time.

Now that you mention it, schizoid might be a better diagnosis for him, given his general aloofness and apathy.

Spoiler for stuff:

On the other hand, it could be interpreted as him restraining himself. I saw his aversion towards social interactions and murder as a barrier he consciously created to shy away from his true self. As he suggested himself (assuming he wasn't lying), Zerozaki is what he might have become if he didn't restrain himself as much.

But yeah. I really can't deny that he can feel guilt, albeit in his own twisted way. Not exactly for Mikoko or Muimi, but for Tomoe, who was somehow similar to himself.

Originally Posted by Shikijin

It is a correct translation, though.

I figured it must be, given how awkward it sounds in English.

[shmaster]

Wait a second, Human Failure most definitely is not a psychopath.
He is actually the more normal one when compared to Defective Product.
Human Failure cannot relate to others due to learned behaviors, unlike Defective Product who's personality is internally screwed up.

[Qilin]

Originally Posted by shmaster

Wait a second, Human Failure most definitely is not a psychopath.
He is actually the more normal one when compared to Defective Product.
Human Failure cannot relate to others due to learned behaviors, unlike Defective Product who's personality is internally screwed up.

We can't say that for certain.

Spoiler for human failure:

Psychopaths are known to be quite capable of integrating themselves in everyday society, so Zerozaki's more easy-going personality might easily just be a facade he's putting on. Fortunately, we have the convenience of taking a look into Ii-chan's mind, but we can't say the same for Zerozaki.

[shmaster]

Well, I have to bring in content of future volumes if we have to discuss more. Like his high school love story or the back side of volume 2.
But then, even volume 2 itself has provided some hints on this.

Spoiler for volume 2:

Remember Human Failure had made an analogy between his life and a train. That he feel if he stops here, his life thus far would be in vain. Human Failure refuse to fix his problem, or even re fuse to recognize only to protect who he was.

[Tyabann]

Spoiler:

Did no one else notice that, despite his condemnation of murder, Ikkun is essentially responsible for the deaths of two people and the ruination of a third? There's a line of his at the end of the book, where Aikawa accuses him of manipulating the entire situation... his response to that was nothing if not extremely disturbing.

Such a bastard.

[Qilin]

Originally Posted by shmaster

Well, I have to bring in content of future volumes if we have to discuss more. Like his high school love story or the back side of volume 2.

Huh. Point taken.

I can't really argue having only read the first two volumes.

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Spoiler:

Did no one else notice that, despite his condemnation of murder, Ikkun is essentially responsible for the deaths of two people and the ruination of a third? There's a line of his at the end of the book, where Aikawa accuses him of manipulating the entire situation... his response to that was nothing if not extremely disturbing.

Such a bastard.

Spoiler for Ii-chan:

"Responsible" is such a tricky term to use here. He already stated within the book that he only felt responsible for one of the deaths, and that was Tomoe's.

If we adhere by his philosophy, the act of murder, by itself, loads the doer with a heavy guilt and self-loathing to the point of committing suicide. As such, all he did was to make those who would commit such an act aware of this. To him, it was their own guilt and despair that led them to kill themselves.

What's funny here is that the early portions of the book make such a show of condemning people who impose their values onto other people, and then we have Ii-chan here who unabashedly forces his views onto his peers.

I guess it's moral relativity again in this case. For the layman, he instigated two suicides (even if one was interrupted). But from his lens, he was only raising their awareness of the weight and gravity of committing murder.

I love this book so much.

[shmaster]

I think Defective Product is saying that to for the sake of himself. Like trying to remind himself not to kill as he sees absolutely no value in human life.

[Qilin]

Originally Posted by shmaster

I think Defective Product is saying that to for the sake of himself. Like trying to remind himself not to kill as he sees absolutely no value in human life.

I agree with you there.

In psychology, it's a coping mechanism called reaction formation, where an individual suppresses unwanted impulses and desires by acting in the opposite manner. All his pretense about condemning murder is just one of the barriers he imposed upon himself to control his lack of empathy. Without it, he states that he might have ended up identical to Zerozaki, a remorseless monster. As he puts it, he's a wolf in sheep's clothing.