Fate/Zero - Speculation & Theories (for F/SN Game Players)

[sona-nyl]

An epilogue which only was written for all Saber fans who complained about her ending.

[Kusa-San]

Originally Posted by Usami_Haru

An epilogue which only was written for all Saber fans who complained about her ending.

And ? It's an official epilogue that you only get if you end the three different routes.

[chaos_alfa]

Originally Posted by Kusa-San

And ? It's an official epilogue that you only get if you end the three different routes.

Is it connected to the Fate route or do you access it through the mainmenu?

P.S. I know only the PS2 version has it and the PC version if you use a patch.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Kusa-San

For me the true route is Fate. Why ? Because it's the only route who got an epilogue.

Heaven's Feel has an epilogue. It cuts to 2 years later. UBW kind of does as well, it's just told from the perspective of Archer and done in a more vague, narrated way.

[Tenchi Hou Take]

Originally Posted by Kusa-San

And ? It's an official epilogue that you only get if you end the three different routes.

TBF it was simply tagged on rather than being part of the original point of the story it wasn't part of the original game. So saying it's the main route because of it doesn't really make sense. In fact it's probably the least likely to be the main route considering the majority of Shirou's and pretty much everyones else's character development wasn't really in it. It was pretty much soley Saber development.

Besides as much as I dislike it HF was the most likely to be the main route considering F/HA takes part in that route.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Kusa-San

For me the true route is Fate. Why ? Because it's the only route who got an epilogue.

That's just a good ending (Nasu stated since HA he wanted to write a Saber Good End) which doesn't exist in the original PC game. It's Realta Nua-only. And RN butchers the story presented in Fate/Zero, so... it's not really fitting to the canon. You're mixing fanmade RN patch with the PC version and RN version. You can't. They are two different products (even presented in two different CMs).

Anyway, Shirou reaches to the same conclusion of HF: the one you love > everyone else. That's how he met Saber again, by chasing after her all the time.

As everyone else said, Fate was the only route lacking an epilogue. HF had one two years later. UBW sorta had one with Archer? Fate didn't. Nasu tacked it after you complete the game because Fate Shirou ditching everything after he wasn't showed so affected by Saber's loss in the route wouldn't have made sense without the answer he discovered in HF eventually.

Originally Posted by Endless Twilight

Uh, he quite clearly gives his answer to Rin "No matter what, wanting to protect others can never be wrong." Then he gets faced with the worst possible end result of the path he will be following, but still maintains his resolve and claims he won't let regret overcome him and make him stray from his path like it did Archer.

I realize you find Kiritsugu's ideal to be abominable, but do you really believe he would be unhappy with how Shirou turned out in UBW (which was all I was even saying in that post you quoted)?

Shirou in the UBW True End says aloud he doesn't have an answer yet. I suggest you to re-read it. Tiger Dojo spells aloud that neither Fate or UBW weren't supposed to be given answers for the life Shirou should lead.

HF does. Last Episode is basically the same answer of HF only applied to a different heroine. Borrowed ideals are nice and all, but between saving strangers forever and chasing after the one I love to see her smile? The later, please. UBW Shirou would have eventually figure out the same if he had to choose between Rin and faceless masses. There weren't situations in UBW where he was truly tested in this way.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take

Besides as much as I dislike it HF was the most likely to be the main route considering F/HA takes part in that route.

No it doesn't. HF takes place in an undisclosed route that we never saw. There are vital differences that don't allow it to be a continuation of HF.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take

Besides as much as I dislike it HF was the most likely to be the main route considering F/HA takes part in that route.

F/HA doesn't take place after any of the three routes.

Anyway, this discussion is dumb. There isn't a 'true' route, since they are all canon.

In terms of what would fit as F/Z anime sequel, HF would more because in terms of atmosphere and overall themes that are addressed, likewise it has a sound conclusion in most plot threads. As for Saber... outcome. You'll see what's foreshadowed come next episodes.

Dark Sakura is foreshadowed thanks to Dark Iri.

Fate comes second. Unfortunately, they gloss over Gilgamesh's characterization into dull antagonist for a love interest. HF Gilgamesh is the one who comes closer characterization wise to his Zero persona. He's cut short, but this can remedy with some tweaks (remove slice of life and add more Gilgamesh).

UBW is almost too disconnected from Fate/Zero narrative. It's great but just not fitting for F/Z continuation.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Thess

UBW is almost too disconnected from Fate/Zero narrative. It's great but just not fitting for F/Z continuation.

All they'd need to do is tweak it to focus more on the "ally of justice" theme, and give Saber some more closure at the end (she gets it in the VN, though it'd still be nice to expand on it).

Even so, I still agree HF is the closest to it in terms of atmosphere.

[mAc Chaos]

UBW still fits, it's Kiritsugu's salvation.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by mAc Chaos

UBW still fits, it's Kiritsugu's salvation.

Not really...? That's HF (aka the only route where Kiritsugu's real nature and conflict was present). Fate if you stretch it and add more about how Shirou was reunited with Saber.

You'll see when you reach the epilogue of FZ why UBW completely disregards Kiritsugu.

[mAc Chaos]

Well, Archer is a pretty good stand in for Kiritsugu and his fate.

Archer gets his belief in the nobility of the ideal renewed, and Shirou doesn't lose faith in the face of the hardship ahead.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by mAc Chaos

Well, Archer is a pretty good stand in for Kiritsugu and his fate.

Which is exactly why I say that. You'll see (unless you have read the LN?).

[mAc Chaos]

I have, but it's been so long I barely remember the specifics. Still, I remember enough that he seemed like he still embraced the ideal of being a hero. He just gave up on it himself. So he was happy when Shirou said he would do it instead.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by mAc Chaos

I have, but it's been so long I barely remember the specifics. Still, I remember enough that he seemed like he still embraced the ideal of being a hero. He just gave up on it himself. So he was happy when Shirou said he would do it instead.

Let's take it to the LN readers only?

[Vicious108]

Originally Posted by Thess

Shirou in the UBW True End says aloud he doesn't have an answer yet. I suggest you to re-read it. Tiger Dojo spells aloud that neither Fate or UBW weren't supposed to be given answers for the life Shirou should lead.

HF does. Last Episode is basically the same answer of HF only applied to a different heroine. Borrowed ideals are nice and all, but between saving strangers forever and chasing after the one I love to see her smile? The later, please.

That's just your personal view on the matter. The narrative itself doesn't try and make following the ideal out to be something inherently bad (or it wouldn't be the end result of Good/True conclusions to two different routes). And again, you're straying from the point of my initial statement, which is that Kiritsugu would find salvation in the person Shirou became in UBW, since the whole point of its ending is that he won't let the ideal break him as it did Archer, who is pretty much Kiritsugu Part 2.

As for this "found an answer or not" business, the point is that Shirou is empty and lacks a self, and thus needs something to fill him and give him a sense of purpose. In UBW it's his ideal, whereas in HF he replaces it with his affection for Sakura. It's a different choice, but it doesn't make the ones reached in the previous routes a mistake, since, as you said, there is no true route and they are all equally canon.

[Village Idiot]

Originally Posted by Touko

The King cannot be controlled and cannot be corrupted.
He's just lost more respect for humans, and the low-calibre Servants of the Fifth Heaven's Feel did not help.


Incorrect, and you need to re-read what each of them does.

Arondight provides a hefty boost and other bonuses (such as Dragon-slaying), but it SEALS his other Noble Phantasms. It does not unlock "more fighting skills".

Eternal Arms Mastership is the one that causes him to retain martial arts prowess (which is not sealed by Arondight,due to being a skill). Knight of Honour is the one that lets him grab light poles and use them as Noble Phantasms.

Except Saber mentions that Zero Berserker with Arondight drawn was even better than before:

Before Arondight’s relentless attack, Saber’s holy sword gave out a groan. Her sword of light that promised victory—it had long since become meaningless, in the hands of its owner who had lost the will to fight. Berserker constantly rebuked Saber, who was unable to counterattack and could only defend. At this point he had already completely unleashed his true ability, and his skill with the sword was completely incomparable with his previous level. Even if Saber had been uninjured right now, she might not have been able to withstand that strong momentum.

[Touko]

I don't see where it says Arondight unlocked more skills.

I only see Lancelot going all out and not holding back after revealing his true identity (by drawing Arondight).

[mAc Chaos]

That's what he meant.

[DragoZERO]

I am surprised we didn't see the Grail's true form, with the tower and all. Maybe we'll see that next episode. Gil still hasn't had any Grail Juice, after all.