Opinions on Hitsugaya Toushirou [spoiler]

[kitten320]

Originally Posted by Waking_Dreamer

I actually think it would be a pretty good match up.

Hitsu still has no chances, his ice won't help him.

How would that be useless though? Defensive kido have saved many kido users' ass from powerful blasts/attacks before...and Bya's petals dont have great penetrating power so his powerful BARRIER could indeed be useful against Bya's petals not to mention his pale lightning attack which he likes to use a too.

Give me at least one example when he had used actual kido in the fight and I might consider it.

Well wings would help though...not to mention his powerful barrier as well as his semi-homing ice dragon to freeze a portion of the petals on their way.

Hitsu is not fully covered by wings, posrtion of his body is left open, especially legs. Nothing stops petals from cutting those parts.
I really doubt he will freeza 1000 petals and from all directions...

Well HH when used was implied to be at only 33.3% - 50% power/capability so who knows...it could actually be twice as fast, twice the freezing power, twice the radius, heck their could be even two Chritsmas Trees at once...

Theres more to it then we've already seen...is all im pointing out.

A lot of people say about how easy it is to avoid this or that attack, so why not simply shunpo away from cloudy area too then? Or grab Hitsu? He also will turn into Christmas tree because of that.

Or cut him down the moment he calls the technique instead of staring at him dumbly.Besides it take huge time before he can use it. Byakuya can cut him down sooner.

Byakuya vs Hitsugaya in an EXHIBITION MATCH would be awesome...!

The most versatile bankai users thus far!

and that's really sad... Hitsu's unfinished banaki does more than other finished bankais =/
Though his ice doesn't really do any damage to strong opponents...

[Kafriel]

Hitsu is not fully covered by wings, posrtion of his body is left open, especially legs. Nothing stops petals from cutting those parts.

He can expand them to make an iced shell around him...did it against Luppi.

A lot of people say about how easy it is to avoid this or that attack, so why not simply shunpo away from cloudy area too then? Or grab Hitsu?

Avoiding senbonzakura is feasible, Ichigo has done it...but avoiding a cloudy area? It could be the whole town, kinda hard to shunpo 12km away in a matter of seconds. Grabbing Toushiro could work though, he's fairly fragile.

Hitsu's unfinished banaki does more than other finished bankais =/

That's where the genius part kicks in

[Waking_Dreamer]

Spoiler for Discussion:

Originally Posted by kitten320

Hitsu still has no chances, his ice won't help him.

I disagree.

Originally Posted by kitten320

Give me at least one example when he had used actual kido in the fight and I might consider it.

Barriers have saved Aizen's ass, Byakuya's ass, Hacci's ass, Rukia's ass etc etc. Now you tell me how BARRIERS are actually completely USELESS as you say in COMBAT.

Originally Posted by kitten320

Hitsu is not fully covered by wings, posrtion of his body is left open, especially legs. Nothing stops petals from cutting those parts.

I really doubt he will freeza 1000 petals and from all directions...

Thats only if he gets completely surrounded - the parts like his legs (which is also armoured remember) can be protected by his tail and his ice dragon which he can spam.

Not saying petals would be useless against him but if a competely defenseless Renji and shikai Ichigo could survive Bya's 1st stage bankai - an aware bankai Hitsugaya can do quite a bit to prevent ALL those petals from cutting him...hence survivable IF he gets surrounded.

Originally Posted by kitten320

A lot of people say about how easy it is to avoid this or that attack, so why not simply shunpo away from cloudy area too then? Or grab Hitsu? He also will turn into Christmas tree because of that.

Its still a one shot tech.

Not many know this but like how everyone goes, wow Gins bankai has a 13 km range....did no one remember Hitsugya's range is actually 12 km which after Yama-ji and Gin is the largets AOE of any character we've seen so far.

Originally Posted by kitten320

Or cut him down the moment he calls the technique instead of staring at him dumbly.Besides it take huge time before he can use it. Byakuya can cut him down sooner.

Hes not just going to stand there and summon it on its own. Still Hitsugaya basically has the ability to call down a liquid nitrogen equivalent of napalm on to the BATTLEFIELED. If you are somehow trapped in the zone its one-shot kill.

In the end its still a potent card Hitsugaya brings to the table. Trap Bya in 1000 Years Ice Prison...then spend the few moments of unleashing HH all over the area - its good game.

[kitten320]

Originally Posted by Waking_Dreamer

Barriers have saved Aizen's ass, Byakuya's ass, Hacci's ass, Rukia's ass etc etc. Now you tell me how BARRIERS are actually completely USELESS as you say in COMBAT.

Did I say anything about barriers? I said give me an example of when Hitsu has ever used Kido in combat. Any kind of kido.

Thats only if he gets completely surrounded - the parts like his legs (which is also armoured remember) can be protected by his tail and his ice dragon which he can spam.

Not saying petals would be useless against him but if a competely defenseless Renji and shikai Ichigo could survive Bya's 1st stage bankai - an aware bankai Hitsugaya can do quite a bit to prevent ALL those petals from cutting him...hence survivable IF he gets surrounded.

Excuse me, Byakuya never actually went for a kill at Renji. He planned to make him look how useless he is. And Renji was cut up real bad. And second, I don't remember shikai Ichigo fighting bankai Byakuya.

Besides it still leaves open area, petals can easily pass even from small opening and if something the ice can be cut off as well. Byakuya had completly no problem surrounding th espada in petals, I don't see Hitsugaya avoiding it. He is not fast enough.

Its still a one shot tech.

Not many know this but like how everyone goes, wow Gins bankai has a 13 km range....did no one remember Hitsugya's range is actually 12 km which after Yama-ji and Gin is the largets AOE of any character we've seen so far.

Halibel seemed pretty alive to me.

Gin's bankai lengh never impressed me so I have nothing to say here. Though when had any of Hitsu techniques reached 12km?

Hes not just going to stand there and summon it on its own. Still Hitsugaya basically has the ability to call down a liquid nitrogen equivalent of napalm on to the BATTLEFIELED. If you are somehow trapped in the zone its one-shot kill.

In the end its still a potent card Hitsugaya brings to the table. Trap Bya in 1000 Years Ice Prison...then spend the few moments of unleashing HH all over the area - its good game.

Why would Byakuya sit in that prison? What stops him to break the ice? He will have far more power and reiatsu than Hitsu.

He also is far more faster.

And Hitsu did excatly what you just said, stood on place and summoned it. Why Halibel didn't cut him down same way as when he was in the middle of going into bankai is beyond me.

[Waking_Dreamer]

Spoiler for discussion:

Originally Posted by kitten320

Excuse me, Byakuya never actually went for a kill at Renji. He planned to make him look how useless he is. And Renji was cut up real bad. And second, I don't remember shikai Ichigo fighting bankai Byakuya.

Is that why he told Renji he was suprised he still had his body/form after the attack? He only wanted to make him look uselss but also planned on ripping his body to unrecognisable shreds?

Just before Ichigo went bankai he took a full blow from Bya's petals.

Originally Posted by kitten320

Besides it still leaves open area, petals can easily pass even from small opening and if something the ice can be cut off as well. Byakuya had completly no problem surrounding th espada in petals, I don't see Hitsugaya avoiding it. He is not fast enough.

You mean the Espada who turned into a pumpkin? And being hit with Goukei a more deadlier form of byakuya's bankai and he still wasnt one shotted.

Again Hitsugaya spams ice dragons which will reduce the number of blades reaching him. And why is he stanging still? Youre really in trouble if you stand there and take all the petals on at once.

Originally Posted by kitten320

Halibel seemed pretty alive to me.

I maintain the stance her water shield saved her ass.

Originally Posted by kitten320

Gin's bankai lengh never impressed me so I have nothing to say here. Though when had any of Hitsu techniques reached 12km?

Chp 359 pg 06

3 RI

RI = 3.972km

3*3.972 = approx. 12 km

Originally Posted by kitten320

He will have far more power and reiatsu than Hitsu.

Proof?

Originally Posted by kitten320

He also is far more faster.

Fair Enough. He is faster but how much faster...? Calcs?

Originally Posted by kitten320

And Hitsu did excatly what you just said, stood on place and summoned it. Why Halibel didn't cut him down same way as when he was in the middle of going into bankai is beyond me.

At the same time Hitsu was casually having a conversation with her too. Its possible it could be summoned faster with no talking from him. After all he had only 50% of his power at the time.

Apologies. Thats all I've had to say anyway.

[Gin]

Oh, are versus threads OK now? I hope someone told monir, or he might just come in here and ban you both.

*resists urge to push report button*

[Haak]

@ Waking Dreamer - You can't link to manga sites. They'll ban you for that. Take that link down and just reference the chapter and page number.

[kitten320]

Spoiler for answer:

Originally Posted by Waking_Dreamer

Is that why he told Renji he was suprised he still had his body/form after the attack? He only wanted to make him look uselss but also planned on ripping his body to unrecognisable shreds?

Just before Ichigo went bankai he took a full blow from Bya's petals.

What means everyone else before that were dead, only exception of the rules.

He was in process of going into bankai, besides Kubo doesn't make much sence most of all. There is no way he would be not cut if those petals had touched him like Renji and Zommari.

You mean the Espada who turned into a pumpkin? And being hit with Goukei a more deadlier form of byakuya's bankai and he still wasnt one shotted.

Again Hitsugaya spams ice dragons which will reduce the number of blades reaching him. And why is he stanging still? Youre really in trouble if you stand there and take all the petals on at once.

It's not his best move, so far none was one shoted with second best unless enemy was messed up.

Reduce but not fully destroy them. Besides ice dragon also can be turn to shreds

Tell me which part of my post that you quated said anything about standing still?

I maintain the stance her water shield saved her ass.

No proof for that. And even so it proofs that his technique is not perfect as you clim it. It is not a one-shot technique.

Proof?

Byakuya is older? And I don't remember Hitsugaya duing high reiatsu presure... unless he is under huge rage emotions...

Fair Enough. He is faster but how much faster...? Calcs?

Did Hitsugaya ever do shunpo which would suprise someone? Or that clone move which Byakuya pulled off?

At the same time Hitsu was casually having a conversation with her too. Its possible it could be summoned faster with no talking from him. After all he had only 50% of his power at the time.

He admited himself that he needed to gether the water around the area before pull that off and it takes time before clouds can gather. It isn't like he says techniques name and you instantly turn into Christmas tree.

Apologies. Thats all I've had to say anyway.

Originally Posted by Gin

Oh, are versus threads OK now? I hope someone told monir, or he might just come in here and ban you both.

*resists urge to push report button*

I would say it is more of disscussing possibilities

[Waking_Dreamer]

^ Well if I continue the discussion it'll be through VM or PM.

Dont know about others who actually want to follow the convo. But yea, opinions about Toshirou and the possibilities of one of the most versatile bankais so far. Byakuya with an equally versatile bankai would push and test a lot of Hitsugaya's bankai abilites. Never have I said or claimed who would be the winner just the possibilites of defense, attack and counter attack.

Dont know how to stop it from being a vs thread...so I'll end it here.

[kitten320]

I would respond, but I can't visit yor channel

But I don't think that we will get too far anyway, so yeh I guess we can leave it here

Was nice to disscuss things with you^^

[ShinAkuma135]

the only remotely 'surprising' thing hitsugaya has done is that ice illusion mirror thingy which works only once....making it a sort of a retarded version of aizen's ability. he has zero mastery in any skill...kidou, shunpo, power, etc. he's the only captain who did absolutely nothing useful against his opponent. his most powerful move wasn't even effective against halibel. he wouldn't last at all against byakuya (and i don't even like him). his speed is top notch, bakai mastery is perfect, kidou is good. hitsugaya has okay speed, bankai mastery is crap, and kidou is average.

as for the ice petal thingy....i believe at least they have to touch you....and byakuya has dang good defense by wrapping himself within his bankai making the ice petals pretty much impossible to reach. hitsugaya's bankai ice defense was shattered by luppi...and byakuyas shikai was able to parry off a bankai getsuga tenshou....and even considering barriers, i haven't seen him use a single defensive kidou against his opponents. i have seen pretty much every captain use kidou in battle....except histugaya

i don't like either one of them
as much as i would like both of them to finish each other off....hitsugaya will get the shorter end of that stick.

ps- its highly doubtful anyone can freeze byakuya's petals since they're mind controlled they can be vibrated and shatter the ice