AnimeSuki Forums

NinjaRealist · 2012-10-14, 00:04

So I was talking to a guy in a strategy game and it comes up that he really likes dark shows. I do too so we get to talking and so of course I recommend to him that he watch Madoka Magica and here is a rough transcript of what followed (other guy was named Lucci, which is how i figured out he was into anime so I've preserved his name):

Me: It really is the Evangelion of magical girl shows...

Lucci: Uh huh, maybe I will watch it after I finish Gintama...

Me: somehow i don't believe you...

Lucci: Well I dunno if i'll watch it it's a girls show.

Me: ...but it's really dark and intense. I promise it's awesome.

Lucci: Yeah, I know I read a review.

Me: But you don't believe me.

Lucci: I just don't really like girls shows

Me: You said you like Fate/Stay Night and Fate/Zero, this is by the same writer...

Lucci: Really?

Me: Yes.

Lucci: But it's a totally different kind of show.

Me: There's a lot of similarities...

Lucci: But it's a girls show

Me: I promise you, it's one of the best anime ever. It's free on crunchyroll.

Lucci: Thank for the rec, but I don't like girls shows.

At this point I was about to slit my wrists in frustration. What else can you say to someone like this?

Archon_Wing · 2012-10-14, 00:05

Their loss really; nothing to be done.

HasuMasu · 2012-10-14, 00:14

I watch girl shows all the time.

leokiko · 2012-10-14, 00:15

If he was a close friend of yours, I would really have made fun of him.

brocko · 2012-10-14, 00:16

It's a girls show. Don't be a girl and watch the girl show for girls.

KholdStare · 2012-10-14, 00:17

It's interesting. What made him think it's a girl show? If it's about the "magical girl" genre, sure a great many of them are shoujo, but anime like MSLN are shounen/seinen, so that's a pretty bad generalization of "girl show" imo.

brocko · 2012-10-14, 00:20

As soon as there's Magical Girls that's pretty much an instant girl-show label for those not as entrenched into the fandom. All Magical Girl shows suffer from this, even the less girly ones like Nanoha and Madoka are not immune.

Soliloquy · 2012-10-14, 00:20

Well it's like I'd watch Gurren Lagunn but I wouldn't dare watch anything to do with Code Geass. Maybe your friend will wise up later that quality doesn't have anything to do with genders. Princess Tutu suffers from the same prejudice state of mind.

NoemiChan · 2012-10-14, 00:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by NinjaRealist

Lucci: Yeah, I know I read a review.

Yeah, blame him for reading a review. Then blame it to the person who made the review..

creb · 2012-10-14, 00:21

Letting others know what you like is one thing. But, angsting over trying to make someone else like what you like? Life's too short.

NinjaRealist · 2012-10-14, 00:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by KholdStare

It's interesting. What made him think it's a girl show? If it's about the "magical girl" genre, sure a great many of them are shoujo, but anime like MSLN are shounen/seinen, so that's a pretty bad generalization of "girl show" imo.

Some people just automatically assume that if the protagonist and all the main characters are girls, it's a show for girl.

For example, people often assume Angelic Layer is a girl's show even though it is one of the most badass shounen fighters ever.

Weirdly this same guy who refued my Madoka rec told me that Higurashi was one of his favorites. I wonder why he didn't conclude that was a girls show?

Quote:

Originally Posted by creb

Letting others know what you like is one thing. But, angsting over trying to make someone else like what you like? Life's too short.

I'm not so much upset that he wasn't interested in watching the show as stunned and flabbergasted at his reasoning for why.

Tempester · 2012-10-14, 00:29

I watch stuff made for little kids a lot. What matters is not what the target audience is, but whether it appeals to me.

And that's ignoring the fact that Madoka Magica is not made for girls anyway.

Perhaps the other guy just isn't into the kind of genre or style that Madoka Magica has, but he doesn't know the correct way to express why he isn't interested so he uses the target audience excuse.

brocko · 2012-10-14, 00:30

It's just pre-ingrained perceptions.

Madoka and Angelic Layer are girl shows because:
a) Main character is a girl
b) Promo material is girlishly themed (pink artwork, frilly dresses, wings, etc.)

Higurashi is not girly because:
a) frequent bloodshed and murder
b) promo artwork predominantly feature dark colours indicating horror and darkish themes, even the title screen is a simple white text on black background (i.e uncute, girls get attracted to cute things) with blood splatters (blood being something girls typically do not enjoy and squirm at)

It's really an overly simplification of things but I hope at least the point comes across.

Cartoons and anime in general also suffer from the same thing, being instantly dismissed as kiddy entertainment for children.

NoemiChan · 2012-10-14, 00:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by NinjaRealist

I wonder why he didn't conclude that was a girls show?

Probably because of the male lead.. He or rather many assumes that when the MC is a girl and there are a lot of girls as supporting cast then its a "girly show"

The opposite happens... female lead with a lot of male supporting cast is a ... wait.. its girly show as well?!

Anyway.... male lead plus many girl supporting cast is assumed as harem and is a "manly show..."

brocko · 2012-10-14, 00:36

I'm sure if you'd show anyone outside of the inner fandom any harem show, they'd still call it a girls show.

To them, not a girls show is stuff like action shounen and the like.

I've had people see me watching Binbogami and ask me why I was watching a girls cartoon, even if it was suppose to be a rather gender neutral show or even slightly more male targeted show.

sa547 · 2012-10-14, 00:49

@TS: I suppose that you could fast-forward to (in)famous episode 3 and see if that'll change his mind, and then go back to the first two episodes.

Dr. Casey · 2012-10-14, 01:47

We're all girls on the inside.

Marcus H. · 2012-10-14, 01:59

^ *Looks inside shirt* I wish.

Triple_R · 2012-10-14, 02:00

Brocko basically has it right.

The whole "Appeal to young, adult men by having a cast thoroughly dominated by cute teenage girls in cute attire doing cute things (generally not including sex)" is a completely foreign (it not utterly bizarre) concept in the west (unless you're deep into the anime and/or eroge fandom).

I remember initially having the hardest time wrapping my head around the idea that K-On! is actually aimed at a young adult male audience. It really is very counter-intuitive to how entertainment works in the west.

What I'd suggest saying to your friend is this: "I know that it looks girly, but in the country that it's made, it's target audience is young adult men. And if you watch 3 or more episodes of it, you'll see why. The aesthetics are part of the dramatic twist to the show."

Also, if your friend is familiar with comic books, you might want to compare Madoka Magica to The Watchmen, and say "Just as the Watchmen uses superhero-esque attire to make its deconstructive aims more effective, Madoka Magica does the same with magical girl-esque attire."

If none of the above works on him, then you might just have to give up on him. Some people have mental blocks that they just can't get pass, sadly.

Warm Mist · 2012-10-14, 02:18

Why is half-naked men touching each other shamelessly considered 'for men'? At any rate I'd say a male who won't watch something because it has too much girls is either gay or asexual.

Tell that to him. That he is gay for watching shows only about men, and that he should care more for shows about girls if he wants to preserve his "macho" image.

2012-10-14, 00:04	Link #1
NinjaRealist Battoru! Join Date: Sep 2012	But it's a girls show... So I was talking to a guy in a strategy game and it comes up that he really likes dark shows. I do too so we get to talking and so of course I recommend to him that he watch Madoka Magica and here is a rough transcript of what followed (other guy was named Lucci, which is how i figured out he was into anime so I've preserved his name): Me: It really is the Evangelion of magical girl shows... Lucci: Uh huh, maybe I will watch it after I finish Gintama... Me: somehow i don't believe you... Lucci: Well I dunno if i'll watch it it's a girls show. Me: ...but it's really dark and intense. I promise it's awesome. Lucci: Yeah, I know I read a review. Me: But you don't believe me. Lucci: I just don't really like girls shows Me: You said you like Fate/Stay Night and Fate/Zero, this is by the same writer... Lucci: Really? Me: Yes. Lucci: But it's a totally different kind of show. Me: There's a lot of similarities... Lucci: But it's a girls show Me: I promise you, it's one of the best anime ever. It's free on crunchyroll. Lucci: Thank for the rec, but I don't like girls shows. At this point I was about to slit my wrists in frustration. What else can you say to someone like this?

2012-10-14, 00:14	Link #3
HasuMasu Senior Member Artist Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: The Middle Way	I watch girl shows all the time. __________________

2012-10-14, 00:16	Link #5
brocko Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: ¯\(º_o)/¯	It's a girls show. Don't be a girl and watch the girl show for girls. __________________ http://www.freerice.com/ - For each word you get right, 10 grains of rice is donated through the UN to help end world hunger.

2012-10-14, 00:17	Link #6
KholdStare ISML Technical Staff Graphic Designer Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Phoenix, AZ Age: 35	It's interesting. What made him think it's a girl show? If it's about the "magical girl" genre, sure a great many of them are shoujo, but anime like MSLN are shounen/seinen, so that's a pretty bad generalization of "girl show" imo. __________________ Kholdy's MAL, ISML Chat, Saimoe Blog, Saimoe Wiki

2012-10-14, 00:20	Link #7
brocko Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: ¯\(º_o)/¯	As soon as there's Magical Girls that's pretty much an instant girl-show label for those not as entrenched into the fandom. All Magical Girl shows suffer from this, even the less girly ones like Nanoha and Madoka are not immune. __________________ http://www.freerice.com/ - For each word you get right, 10 grains of rice is donated through the UN to help end world hunger.

2012-10-14, 00:15	Link #4
leokiko Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012	If he was a close friend of yours, I would really have made fun of him.

2012-10-14, 00:20	Link #8
Soliloquy 絶対領域に嵌り過ぎた。 Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Trendy Backwater Age: 38	Well it's like I'd watch Gurren Lagunn but I wouldn't dare watch anything to do with Code Geass. Maybe your friend will wise up later that quality doesn't have anything to do with genders. Princess Tutu suffers from the same prejudice state of mind. __________________ Zettai Ryouiki Addict

2012-10-14, 00:21	Link #10
creb Hiding Under Your Bed Join Date: May 2008	Letting others know what you like is one thing. But, angsting over trying to make someone else like what you like? Life's too short. __________________ http://myanimelist.net/animelist/creb http://myanimelist.net/mangalist/creb It feels like years since they've been updated, btw. Also, cake.

2012-10-14, 00:29	Link #12
Tempester Japanese Culture Fan Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Planet Earth Age: 33	I watch stuff made for little kids a lot. What matters is not what the target audience is, but whether it appeals to me. And that's ignoring the fact that Madoka Magica is not made for girls anyway. Perhaps the other guy just isn't into the kind of genre or style that Madoka Magica has, but he doesn't know the correct way to express why he isn't interested so he uses the target audience excuse.

2012-10-14, 00:30	Link #13
brocko Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: ¯\(º_o)/¯	It's just pre-ingrained perceptions. Madoka and Angelic Layer are girl shows because: a) Main character is a girl b) Promo material is girlishly themed (pink artwork, frilly dresses, wings, etc.) Higurashi is not girly because: a) frequent bloodshed and murder b) promo artwork predominantly feature dark colours indicating horror and darkish themes, even the title screen is a simple white text on black background (i.e uncute, girls get attracted to cute things) with blood splatters (blood being something girls typically do not enjoy and squirm at) It's really an overly simplification of things but I hope at least the point comes across. Cartoons and anime in general also suffer from the same thing, being instantly dismissed as kiddy entertainment for children. __________________ http://www.freerice.com/ - For each word you get right, 10 grains of rice is donated through the UN to help end world hunger.

2012-10-14, 00:36	Link #15
brocko Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: ¯\(º_o)/¯	I'm sure if you'd show anyone outside of the inner fandom any harem show, they'd still call it a girls show. To them, not a girls show is stuff like action shounen and the like. I've had people see me watching Binbogami and ask me why I was watching a girls cartoon, even if it was suppose to be a rather gender neutral show or even slightly more male targeted show. __________________ http://www.freerice.com/ - For each word you get right, 10 grains of rice is donated through the UN to help end world hunger.

2012-10-14, 00:49	Link #16
sa547 Senior Member Author Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Philippines Age: 47	@TS: I suppose that you could fast-forward to (in)famous episode 3 and see if that'll change his mind, and then go back to the first two episodes. __________________

2012-10-14, 01:47	Link #17
Dr. Casey Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Tennessee Age: 36	We're all girls on the inside.

2012-10-14, 01:59	Link #18
Marcus H. Princess or Plunderer? Join Date: May 2009 Location: the Philippines	^ Looks inside shirt I wish. __________________ Continuing: White Sand Aquatope (6/24) and Vanitas S2 (0/12), The Vampire Dies in No Time S2 and Bofuri S2 (3/12). 2021: Restaurant to Another World S2 (3/12), takt Op. Destiny (1/12) and Taisho Maiden Fairy Tale (1/12). 2022: Yuusha Yamemasu (1/12), Kaguya-sama S3, Mob Psycho 100 III (Oct06), Bleach: 1000 Year Blood War (2/13) and Chainsaw Man (6/12). Spring 2023: Yamada-kun to Lv999 no Koi wo Suru, Kuma Kuma Kuma Bear Punch! (4/12), Skip to Loafer, Tonikaku Kawaii S2 (1/12), Otonari ni Ginga (5/12) and Kimi wa Houkago Insomnia (3/13). Contact me on Wikia and MyAnimeList. Anime List Status ~ Watching: 33. Completed: 468. Plan to watch: 39.

2012-10-14, 02:00	Link #19
Triple_R Senior Member Author Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Age: 42	Brocko basically has it right. The whole "Appeal to young, adult men by having a cast thoroughly dominated by cute teenage girls in cute attire doing cute things (generally not including sex)" is a completely foreign (it not utterly bizarre) concept in the west (unless you're deep into the anime and/or eroge fandom). I remember initially having the hardest time wrapping my head around the idea that K-On! is actually aimed at a young adult male audience. It really is very counter-intuitive to how entertainment works in the west. What I'd suggest saying to your friend is this: "I know that it looks girly, but in the country that it's made, it's target audience is young adult men. And if you watch 3 or more episodes of it, you'll see why. The aesthetics are part of the dramatic twist to the show." Also, if your friend is familiar with comic books, you might want to compare Madoka Magica to The Watchmen, and say "Just as the Watchmen uses superhero-esque attire to make its deconstructive aims more effective, Madoka Magica does the same with magical girl-esque attire." If none of the above works on him, then you might just have to give up on him. Some people have mental blocks that they just can't get pass, sadly. __________________

2012-10-14, 02:18	Link #20
Warm Mist Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011	Why is half-naked men touching each other shamelessly considered 'for men'? At any rate I'd say a male who won't watch something because it has too much girls is either gay or asexual. Tell that to him. That he is gay for watching shows only about men, and that he should care more for shows about girls if he wants to preserve his "macho" image.