2012-12-11, 15:31 | Link #2221 |
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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It wasn't that they weren't punished. Like I said, I felt they were being given more respect than they deserved. The Troupe may be charismatic and clever and may even have some virtues but at the end of the day they're still horrible people. Shouldn't that be the final point, rather than the fact that they have some virtues?
But yeah the moral dissonance has been a noticeable pain for me throughout the show. I only mention it now because it's just a little too egregious to brush aside now. As you've pointed out, the show has shown a blind eye to a lot of things to begin with but it should be noted that the show has also been quick to emphasis certain virtues so I do find that it's playing up the moral compass point a bit, and i honestly have to wonder what direction it's pointing at (and don't say East...).
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2012-12-11, 15:53 | Link #2223 | |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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2012-12-11, 16:43 | Link #2224 | |
Human
Join Date: Aug 2004
Age: 37
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They're pretty crazy. |
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2012-12-11, 19:20 | Link #2225 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
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That's why she was famous. Back during Phantom attach some rich guys read fortune before going to auction to ensure that they'll be safe. If no, they would remain where they were.
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2012-12-12, 17:00 | Link #2226 |
Corrupted fool
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: I'm everywhere
Age: 33
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I still don't get why does this arc end so abruptly. Kurapica never decided he will stop his revenge. The Spider suddenly decides not to target Kurapica afraid that his ghost would continue his objective.
However, didn't Kurapica already kill a Spider before and his ghost bothered nobody? I wonder what was going on with Togashi considering Spoiler for manga spoiler:
Gon actually pulled some points when talking with the Spider guys "How can you kill so much without caring for the victims" and my favorite "If you care so much for your late friend why don't you think a little about the others' lives?" Well, not exactly what he said but you get the idea. |
2012-12-12, 17:11 | Link #2227 | |
Human
Join Date: Aug 2004
Age: 37
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From the Spider's perspective... you seem to have completely missed the point of what they said about the nen of a dead person. It's not about "ghosts" attacking people. Ghosts aren't a thing in this setting, or if they are they're just as unknowable as they are in real life. That'd be a spiritual question for a priest, rather than a practical one for a killer. Whatever the case, no one in the series is particularly concerned about ghosts. They're concerned about nen. Nen is powered by conviction. This is a point that's been hammered in over and over again. So what do you think happens to someone's nen when they give a dying curse? To die for one final grudge is the strongest conviction a person can have. Rather than weakening the grip of his nen, killing Kurapica would make his hate stronger than ever. The blade pointed at Chrollo's heart would go from a temporary inconvenience they need a specialist to remove to an unbreakable curse from a dead man. In the worst case scenario, it may gain a strong enough aura to kill him merely from its presence (like what Wing warned Gon and Killua about before they learned Ten). Having an extremely hostile aura sitting inside your body without any protection from Ten is suicidal. It's all fairly logical and fits within the rules that have already been established. |
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2012-12-13, 00:10 | Link #2231 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Do people seriously believe this arc can be viewed as an intended conclusion to the Kurapika vs Phantom Troupe blood feud?
I mean, it doesn't get much more clear that it isn't than this: Spoiler:
And what would be the point of introducing the possibility of Chrollo having his Nen restriction erased if they didn't plan to do more with the Spiders? Obviously they still have a role to play in the story. It'd be such a waste to introduce, develop and establish such a compelling villainous organization only to write them off after a single story arc (where they only lost two members, three if you count Hisoka leaving). |
2012-12-13, 02:33 | Link #2232 |
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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It obviously isn't the end, but I did feel a bit of a mood dissonance here in that the episode is trying to establish some sort of end when there shouldn't be. To be honest whilst Gon might have Kurapika's best interests at heart i wonder if what he did was really the right thing. Kurapika was going to be the Spider's target ever since he first captured Uvo and I find it very hard to believe that even after all this, the Troupe is just going to let Kurapika get away it. They're definitely going to try and find a a way for their leader to get his Nen back and when they do Kurapika is in huge trouble. Unless Kurapika wants to die, he no longer has any choice but to see them all dead.
I'm not really expecting saints, but some moral consistency would be nice. I mean if the story is going to go out of it's way to show how some characters have virtues, sometimes it will all fall flat on it's face if it doesn't address all the other issues. At least for me it does.
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2012-12-13, 02:44 | Link #2233 |
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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I think the beauty of Hunter x Hunter is its ability to create that sort of moral dissonance. That despite all the terrible things the Spider have done, it managed to create an emotionally effectual scene of Paku's sacrifice. A certain admiration has to be there for the way she put her group before herself.
It is not like villains have to be people who always do evil things in 100% of scenarios. The spider wouldn't maintain itself as a group if they weren't held together by something more than just "hahaha I AM EVIL!!!" It also doesn't mean they are not supposed to be held accountable to their heinous actions. All it means is that the spider is more complex and nuanced than your typical scooby doo villain. Similarly, you could see that our so called protagonists are not the most chivalrous bunch around either. Killua has killed several people. Kurapika has killed someone in his search for vengeance. Gon turns a blind eye to all the carnage that is around him and has displayed a scary side of him in the heaven's arena arc. They are not 100% pure white knights either. Hunter x Hunter characters in general are colored with shades of grey instead of just pure black and white. It's why the cast is often so fascinating and compelling.
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2012-12-13, 05:50 | Link #2234 |
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Unknown
Age: 39
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Ok ok first of all I like to point out, that "the end of this arc" does not mean "the end of the troupe, we never see them again".
This arc established the spiders and how they work, showed them doing some freaky shit while stealing the underground auction's items, then worked towards a climax where Chrollo's nen gets disabled and becomes unable to contact his troupe members, Kurapica's friends are freed, and the spider is left in a "what do we do next?" state. Introduction, buildup, climax, all the parts of an arc are there. All the things from a typical story arc in an ongoing series are here too: Story hooks for a later arc. The spiders aren't done for, we learn of the existence of exorcists, which immediately gives us the possibility of Chrollo making a return later. We also learn that killing Kurapica now could possibly be bad for Chrollo, so their priority is to have Chrollo's judgment chain removed. This allows Kurapica his much needed time to rest. Does this mean Kurapica's quest is over now? Of course not. But it DOES allow the story to move on to things that are more important at this point in time: Greed Island. |
2012-12-13, 11:35 | Link #2235 |
Corrupted fool
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: I'm everywhere
Age: 33
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Poor Hisoka. His fun was ruined by Kurapica. However, I don't get why he sold his "comrades" if he knew Kurapica would mess with Chrollo or even kill him. Well, now that Chrollo is powerless he will focus again on Gon...
Still, Kurapica is never touched again as far as I know |
2012-12-13, 14:16 | Link #2236 | |
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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On a separate note, whilst Hunter x Hunter has made great use of characters that lack morals, I'd also like to start seeing more grey characters like Kurapika who are grey because of their morals, not the lack of it.
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2012-12-13, 18:19 | Link #2238 |
Socially Inept
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Retracing my steps.....
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Why can't it be more nuanced ? Some of the spiders are likeable. Some of them are not. Feitan is pretty much bad news but that doesn't mean characters like Machi or Paku or even Franklin can't have likeable sides to them. That doesn't remove the penance they owe for their actions and I don't see where the author tries to make it so.
I think the toned down nature of Phinks and Fietan meeting Gon and Killua at the auction isn't an attempt for the author to make them seem acceptable as people, it's just that they (even being the pieces of shit that they are) couldn't deny the strong feelings Paku left them. I'm sure it's only temporary for them. I mean Hisoka is a slimy pedo masochist but even he has a pretty solid fanbase.
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2012-12-13, 19:21 | Link #2240 |
Corrupted fool
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: I'm everywhere
Age: 33
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In the Spider my favorite was Nobunaga because of his easygoing personality and how he thinks of his comrades. Still, half of my respect disappeared when he murdered Squala for no reason. That whole scene bothered me because Pacu had already read his mind and knew about Kurapica's identity. She already understood Squala's personality and said something to piss him off leading to Nobunaga killing him saying "I told you not to move." Poor Squala.
Ah, about Hisoka his popularity is really huge. He may be a murderer, but he only picks enemies willing to kill him or messing with his prey (Gon). Is he a pedo? MAYBE. He sometimes appears to also hit on that pink or blue haired girl from the Troupe (can't remember so many names!) but---You see I can't defend that guy. It's like defending Vegeta although I admit Hisoka is likable unlike that Dragon Ball douche. |
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action, shounen |
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