Code Geass - Music Discussion (OP/ED & OST, etc.)

[Var]

Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday

I'm sure you would love it to be. I don't know though, some of the images would seem confusing.

Why would I love it to be? I haven't bothered really listening to it and I don't do subs so I'm actually curious if I should bother , which is why I asked.

[Dann of Thursday]

Oh, I thought you had seen the subs. I can't really tell in any case. The song mainly talks about the thanking everyone for what they have done, wanting to return the favor, needing to love more, and to always remember that day. That is the basic summary. Unless someone posts the full thing sooner I'll post the version I have.

[flou]

Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday

Oh, I thought you had seen the subs. I can't really tell in any case. The song mainly talks about the thanking everyone for what they have done, wanting to return the favor, needing to love more, and to always remember that day. That is the basic summary. Unless someone posts the full thing sooner I'll post the version I have.

The ending song's kind of sad actually . I say this based on experience with other Orange Range songs and their PVs, but I'm interested in seeing what the PV for this song will look like

[Var]

Originally Posted by flou

The ending song's kind of sad actually . I say this based on experience with other Orange Range songs and their PVs, but I'm interested in seeing what the PV for this song will look like

I just listened to it, it is a little on the sad tune but its not overly sad or restrictive. The question really becomes to whom is the song refering, and I believe it is refering to several different people, from Lelouch's PoV. Based on how the song is interpreted with the scenes it could mean any number of things, but I have a feeling a good bit refers to the falling out between Lelouch and Suzaku, and some parts about C.C./Kallen or both (I'm inclined to think its both).

[Dann of Thursday]

I try to gather the pieces of happiness (Lelouch)
That my heart picked up one day
The melody I had started to forget (Nunnally and Rollo)
Still hasn’t faded from within me

I thank you from the bottom of my heart (Cornelia and Euphemia)
Everything I have now is thanks to you all
I thank you from the bottom of my heart (Gino and Anya)
Now I’ll be the one to give you happiness
I won’t forget anything (Emperor and V.V.)
I’m still the same as I was that day

I have to tell you (Kallen)
That I love you more often
On the nights you are about to cry (Suzaku)
Just turn around
To retrace your steps (C.C.)
To make sure you don’t forget that day

The images kind of go between on lines with Kallen, Suzaku, and C.C. though. The song doesn't need to refer to anyone though the references to "that day" make me think it could be referring to C.C. or Nunnally once again.

[Koshimizu]

I think lyrics are vague and can be interpreted in different ways.
Here are my two cents.

I just love how the visuals synced, BTW.

02 ~O Two~ (TV Size Version)
Vocals: ORANGE RANGE
Lyrics: ORANGE RANGE
Composition: ORANGE RANGE

During mornings and nights, too, I yearn for love
And I’ll become a star to protect you
[visual syn] Mornings and nights = dawn(?) between the two planets(?)

Without knowing the whereabouts of the battle[/U]
[visual syn] When it comes to "battle", what's on screen are Suzaku, V.V., and Emperor.

At the intersection of tomorrow and yesterday
For us who don’t come across each other
Now I’ll go; I’m a shooting star
For the 2nd line I would say "you and I don't meet/come across/etc". It's hard to get an "accurate" definition for this line.
Anyway, the point is, it's present tense. It's stating a fact now- you and I, we are separated.
[visual syn] Nunnally and Lelouch stretching hands toward each other, but are still separated.
I don't think it means separated in the future.

Another thing is, the line before it states the time which we are separated: the intersection of tomorrow and yesterday. What's that? The only thing between tomorrow and yesterday is now, today.
[visual syn] The fake world Lelouch is in today, with a forged school life, and Rollo.

For the 3rd line, I think it's connected to the 2nd. Which makes it "You and I don't come across. I'll go to you now, like a shooting star."
[visual syn] "I'll go to you now"- Lelouch walks out of Ashford.
"like a shooting star"- a shooting star slash across the screen.

Even if the world decays
There are things that won’t change
Even if we hold back our tears
Things that we must protect exist inside of us
The message from hundreds of millions of years ago is ceaseless
It starts to ache; it echoes
With a hoarse voice
With hands covered in wounds, I’ll protect you
Battles after battles. Everyone has his own reasons to fight for.
[visual syn] When singing "protect", it's Gino holding Suzaku's shoulder.
When it comes to "hands", it's the KMF behind the Chinese folks stretching out its arms. Does this one count? I like it though.

I continue to fight
I continue to fight

During mornings and nights, too, I yearn for love
And I’ll become a star to protect you
[visual syn] Lelouch looks over a city from above.

Without knowing the whereabouts of the battle
[visual syn] Rollo, Britannia flag, Ougi & Villetta, OotBK flag.
Not knowing the whereabouts meaning Rollo & the lovers are stuck between Britannia and Black Knights?

At the intersection of tomorrow and yesterday
Showing the good looking characters of OotBK side and Britannia side. I say "good looking" because Senba isn't in there, and it's not like he's dying soon.

For us who don’t come across each other
[visual syn] Schenizel and Lelouch glaring at each other.

We’re shooting stars that slash apart fate
[visual syn] I'm not sure if this is talking about Lelouch & C.C., or Zero.

Now I’ll take away your overflowing tears
I say this is very, very positive.

[Dann of Thursday]

Nice interpretation, Koshimizu. I'm inclined to agree with it for the most part. I wonder how long it took them to get it so well synced to the song. They must have it stuck in their heads.

[flou]

Originally Posted by Var

I just listened to it, it is a little on the sad tune but its not overly sad or restrictive. The question really becomes to whom is the song refering, and I believe it is refering to several different people, from Lelouch's PoV. Based on how the song is interpreted with the scenes it could mean any number of things, but I have a feeling a good bit refers to the falling out between Lelouch and Suzaku, and some parts about C.C./Kallen or both (I'm inclined to think its both).

I only say it's sad due to most of ORANGE RANGE's ballads having something about thanking someone or walking away/moving on then are coupled with really depressing visuals despite having a somewhat upbeat tune Here's an example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3eMLrDB-Yw

I really love both of the songs though

[Var]

Originally Posted by Koshimizu

For us who don’t come across each other
[visual syn] Schenizel and Lelouch glaring at each other.

~This bit of the lyrics starts with Schenizel but ends all the way at C.C. (with a very down look on her face). With Lelouch caught in the middle, literally for the line of the song and figuratively probably as well.

We’re shooting stars that slash apart fate
[visual syn] I'm not sure if this is talking about Lelouch & C.C., or Zero.

~This one is weird, it starts right about when Lelouch pulls his hand away from C.C. and ends with his eye's Geass being revealed. It could very well mean he breaks the chain of isolation that is given to the one with the Power of the King.

Now I’ll take away your overflowing tears
I say this is very, very positive.

~This is when Zero appears, so I have a feeling this isn't towards anyone but the entirety of the world. That is what Zero is, the force that will change the world. So I'd call it positive for the ultimate victory, but that's really all.

While I agree with most of it, I have to question this ~ I'll make my comments in the quote through bolding.

Originally Posted by flou

I only say it's sad due to most of ORANGE RANGE's ballads having something about thanking someone or walking away/moving on then are coupled with really depressing visuals despite having a somewhat upbeat tune Here's an example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3eMLrDB-Yw

I really love both of the songs though

Point taken, they can be rather depressing if you don't listen to the lyrics.

[Koshimizu]

@Var
I like your interpretation. Especially the "breaks the chain of isolation" part.

But you're fueling Dann's depression again.

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Var

What? There is no indication in those lines that the obstacle will be overcome. Look at the lines in sequence:

For us who don’t come across each other
We’re shooting stars that slash apart fate
Now I’ll take away your overflowing tears

There is no implication of overcoming the barrier that ultimately seperates them, but it does imply that the goal is ultimately a success in that the bitter tears of the other will be gone. This is a common theme in stories/songs where one person enables another to live freely but not for any singular reason. It could very well be love, or friendship, or guilt.

I take it as a symbolic meaning, focusing more on the fact that it is circumstance that actually separates say Lelouch and Nunnally, and in a certain sense Lelouch and C.C. This goes back to Nunnally and the whole being kept under Britannian control, and our previous arguments of fate binding C.C. But instead of being stagnate which would be in keeping of never being able to meet, the lyrics afterwards suggest that they are moving, becoming shooting stars brings that type of image into mind. This also coincides with what's happening in the plot, with Lelouch moving forward to reunite with his Nunnally, and it creates an allusion to the same with C.C by the repetition of the line when they are together at the end of the opening. I didn't say there wasn't a barrier, but once again I get the feeling you're viewing things far too narrowly, making far too many 'what is' statements instead of 'what ifs' which this is. You're right that it is certainly possible this could end in some ultimate sacrifice that prevents them from being together but sees the one they love happy when it's all over, but I certainly didn't claim that they would overcome the barriers, just that they would be moving to try and do just that, and if that is true then one can make just as strong a case that they may actually succeed in being together at the end as well.

[Var]

Originally Posted by Koshimizu

@Var
I like your interpretation. Especially the "breaks the chain of isolation" part.

But you're fueling Dann's depression again.

I could have only done it with your initial noticing of the syncs. The reason I thought of the idea, though, came from the oddity of the line (the power of the king will isolate you) in a story (and for a character) built to break the chains of fate. Take that however you may, I just thought it interesting.

I think the only way for me to not fuel Dann is to simply do nothing.

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

I take it as a symbolic meaning, focusing more on the fact that it is circumstance that actually separates say Lelouch and Nunnally, and in a certain sense Lelouch and C.C. This goes back to Nunnally and the whole being kept under Britannian control, and our previous arguments of fate binding C.C. But instead of being stagnate which would be in keeping of never being able to meet, the lyrics afterwards suggest that they are moving, becoming shooting stars brings that type of image into mind. This also coincides with what's happening in the plot, with Lelouch moving forward to reunite with his Nunnally, and it creates an allusion to the same with C.C by the repetition of the line when they are together at the end of the opening. I didn't say there wasn't a barrier, but once again I get the feeling you're viewing things far too narrowly, making far too many 'what is' statements instead of 'what ifs' which this is. You're right that it is certainly possible this could end in some ultimate sacrifice that prevents them from being together but sees the one they love happy when it's all over, but I certainly didn't claim that they would overcome the barriers, just that they would be moving to try and do just that, and if that is true then one can make just as strong a case that they may actually succeed in being together at the end as well.

If you want to go by the image presented in the sync and lyrics, then the shooting stars are going away from one another. Being as they are inert single-trajectory objects, they'd never cross paths again. The same can be said for Nunally, which is most definately true for her case. Because even if Lelouch wins, he'll have commited unforgivable acts which will have displaced him from the (mostly) pure Nunally.

[KrimzonStriker]

Technically Nunnally isn't going anywhere, Lelouch is the one moving forward, not her in either the plot or the lyrics. So he might miss or he might hit dead on, who knows? But there's nothing to say he will not manage to make it. And well, if you've read the forums you'll know how skeptical I am of the whole 'pure' Nunnally notion >_>

[Var]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

Technically Nunnally isn't going anywhere, Lelouch is the one moving forward, not her in either the plot or the lyrics. So he might miss or he might hit dead on, who knows? But there's nothing to say he will not manage to make it. And well, if you've read the forums you'll know how skeptical I am of the whole 'pure' Nunnally notion >_>

Not by her own volition, but she is still moving. It doesn't matter what starts the movement when the end result is movement. The meaning does not change if we say that only Lelouch is moving, in moving forward he is seperating himself from Nunally. This is still akin to what the lyrics and the OP portray.

I'm not fully sure what you're talking about when you say 'But there's nothing to say he will not manage to make it', what is that about? I don't remember saying he was or was not going to make anything.

I said (mostly) pure, not pure.

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Var

Not by her own volition, but she is still moving. It doesn't matter what starts the movement when the end result is movement. The meaning does not change if we say that only Lelouch is moving, in moving forward he is seperating himself from Nunally. This is still akin to what the lyrics and the OP portray.

I'm not fully sure what you're talking about when you say 'But there's nothing to say he will not manage to make it', what is that about? I don't remember saying he was or was not going to make anything.

I said (mostly) pure, not pure.

I kind of got more of the circumstances are preventing them from reuniting, though how exactly is she moving in your mind? And that's a big if right there Var, so I don't think you can make that type of judgment just yet because both the lyrics and the OP can and are being subjective to a different interpretation which I am providing and I find it no less valid then yours presently.

I didn't say he was making something, what I meant was whether or not he was going to succeed in overcoming the barriers separating him from the people he loves or will come to love, and I see no reason to doubt that he cannot do that yet.

I just put out my skepticism as a foreboding premonition as to how long that 'mostly' will last >_>

[Narona]

Can I post the rips mp3 of the OP/ED (from the video)? Is it forbidden???

Originally Posted by Koshimizu

But you're fueling Dann's depression again.

Dann's legendary pessimism >o<.

[Var]

I'm going to break this up into bullets to adress points seperately.

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

• I kind of got more of the circumstances are preventing them from reuniting, though how exactly is she moving in your mind?
• And that's a big if right there Var, so I don't think you can make that type of judgment just yet because both the lyrics and the OP can and are being subjective to a different interpretation which I am providing and I find it no less valid then yours presently.

• Countless events have slowly been changing her life, making her wade through new things. When she was stolen from her brother, her world changed entirely. Change is a figurative for movement. The actions of V.V. and the Emperor are pulling them apart; so not by her volition but she is moving away from her brother.
• You brought up that if, I simply returned to you a point. You said that, theoretically, Nunally is not moving. I humored that point by saying that if she is not moving, while Lelouch is actively changing and pushing forward to whatever end, then she and her brother are slowly drifting apart. I'd hardly call this me making a judgement, as it has been presented through the show just how far apart they have drifted, and is common sense. She no longer knows her brother and he hardly spends any time with his beloved sister.

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

I didn't say he was making something, what I meant was whether or not he was going to succeed in overcoming the barriers separating him from the people he loves or will come to love, and I see no reason to doubt that he cannot do that yet.

There's also no reason to solidly think he can. While he may overcome certain things through out the story, there's been clean cut presentation that somethings, no matter the importance of what's on the otherside, can not be overcome. Season One ended on this premise. In fact, I can very easily say that Season One ended on the premise that 'Love Does Not Conquer All'.

But this is best saved for another thread, not this one.

On a different note; I thought I'd do as Koshimizu (can I just say Koshi ) with the OP to the ED.

Thanks to Dann for the text.

• Lelouch's Point of View:
  I try to gather the pieces of happiness (Lelouch)
  That my heart picked up one day
  ~ Reminiscing of the past while moving forward. Reference to Lelouch's own thoughts about his actions and rememberance of what he's lost along the way. Also has a more happy side to it in that he has no forgotten the happiness and is trying to make it whole again.
  ~ Has the chains in/around his hand. Shows control and at the same time restraint. Black wings.
  
• The melody I had started to forget (Nunnally and Rollo)
  Still hasn’t faded from within me
  ~ With the way the transition between pictures happens, the last part of the previous section feels like it refers to Nunally and Rollo as well, giving an embodiment to Lelouch's happiness. It's also saying that he'll never forget his sister, refering to the mind wipe.
  ~ Nunally is encompassed in ribbons instead of chains, alluding to her regal entrapment by V.V.. Rollo is ensnared at the leg and around the black wing, could imply any number of things, but I go with: He's held back by something, taking into account the black wing, it could mean that he has become attached to Lelouch. The disappearing white wing further's this, perhaps alluding to an allegiance change.
  
• Lelouch's or Suzaku's Point of View:
  I thank you from the bottom of my heart (Cornelia and Euphemia)
  Everything I have now is thanks to you all
  ~ It feels like an apology to Cornelia and, more so, Euphie. Its two fold in its meaning. In the past they were like his family, they gave him happiness and a good life. In the present they were enemies and friends and sacrifices, for Lelouch's future. Ultimately, they have helped shape his life through all events.
  ~ Also of note, this can also be Suzaku. Euphie made him what he is to day, both in good and bad ways. And Cornelia gave him the chance.
  ~ The chain is around Cornelia's weapon, binding it. This is more or less how she is now, hidden away and unable to do anything. It could also reference to her inability to defeat Zero. Euphie has white wings for obvious reasons. Cornelia's cloak is wing-like and white.
  
• Suzaku's Point of View:
  I thank you from the bottom of my heart (Gino and Anya)
  Now I’ll be the one to give you happiness
  ~ Either this switches to Suzaku or Lelouch comes to know both Anya and Gino. I doubt the later, therein I'll go with the former. It feels like he tanks them for their friendship, after his loss of everything, and promises to make them happy. This could imply a relationship with Anya or simply becoming very good friends.
  ~ If you wait long enough, you can see that the chains are connecting the two of them. From Gino's hand to Anya's ankle. This probably references their bond as friends that's been established. The wings are a toss up, they could imply allegiance or they could mean she'll die.
  
  
• Lelouch's Point of View:
  I won’t forget anything (Emperor and V.V.)
  I’m still the same as I was that day
  ~ This is pretty clear cut. It's defiance of his father and V.V.. It's referencing the day he stormed out and opposed his father. Applying it to the present, the wording makes sense as he is indeed the same as that day.
  ~ V.V.'s chain's come out from the Emperor, if you look closely. Showing that one of them is controlling the other. Due to Wakamoto's position, I'd say he is the one in control. V.V. and Wakamoto both don't have actual wings but representations of them, this could be an allusion similar to a fallen angel or pretending to be angels. Interestingly enough, V.V.'s chains form a helix.
  
• Lelouch's Point of View:
  I have to tell you (Kallen)
  That I love you more often
  ~ So as to not have my head bitten off by a hydra, I will not say anything. *Attempts to say something but is eaten by a hydra*
  ~ Like C.C., Kallen has the chain's connected to her neck and nowhere else, and is in fact holding one of the chains. Not much needs to be said about that. Black Wings. And totally bad ass! (For something totally out there, the coat could be in reference to Lelouch's coat in episode two... not too farfetched.)
  *hydra chomp*
  
• Lelouch's Point of View:
  On the nights you are about to cry (Suzaku)
  Just turn around
  ~ This is reference to 25 and the fact that Lelouch did everything he could for Suzaku and that, in all probability, he still does not hate him. No matter what happens, he will always be Suzaku's friend. This is compounded by the flashback we get in 26.
  ~ Probably the most symbolic. Suzaku tied up at the hands, refercing his inability to change anything and his ultimate failure at defeating fate. Though, at the same time, we have wings freeing themselves from within his uniform, white wings. Could imply death, or any number of things. Not bad ass.
  
• Lelouch's Point of View:
  To retrace your steps (C.C.)
  To make sure you don’t forget that day
  ~ While the latter part could be refering to any number of things, the former is not to hard to decipher. We know C.C. is regaining humanity, and retracing her steps would take her back to find out who she was and truly is. About the second part, the wording makes it feel something similar to how Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust ended. Continuing on but not forgetting the promise.
  ~ One wing. The broken egg could refer to her but I believe its more in reference to Lelouch who she's freed. She's more wrapped up by her chains than Kallen, implying her bout with fate and struggle against it. The chain is, as mentioned previously, connected to her neck. Her attire is the same as Kallen's... harem end! Bad ass, but not as bad ass as Kallen.

Yes... I was bored. Feel free to contest my interpretations.

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Var

I'm going to break this up into bullets to adress points seperately.

• Countless events have slowly been changing her life, making her wade through new things. When she was stolen from her brother, her world changed entirely. Change is a figurative for movement. The actions of V.V. and the Emperor are pulling them apart; so not by her volition but she is moving away from her brother.
• You brought up that if, I simply returned to you a point. You said that, theoretically, Nunally is not moving. I humored that point by saying that if she is not moving, while Lelouch is actively changing and pushing forward to whatever end, then she and her brother are slowly drifting apart. I'd hardly call this me making a judgement, as it has been presented through the show just how far apart they have drifted, and is common sense. She no longer knows her brother and he hardly spends any time with his beloved sister.

I'll contest to the first point that I already acknowledged the physical obstacles between them, case in point the kidnapping. But what you're asserting is an emotional barrier that has not been proven to exist, especially since she and Lelouch reached out to one another crying before she was taken away. When I said not moving I meant in location wise, and possibly emotion wise as well from what little indication we have, and if we incorporate all the lyrics then location wise is being worked on while the emotions of caring and protecting her are still there for Lelouch, he's maintained that reasoning up to now and more then ever it is his core motivation, something that has not changed, at least in that respect.

My main problem with a lot of your assessments is that you often don't bring up the fact that there are other, viable alternatives of interpretation for each of the scenes and the meanings, basically I rarely see any 'ifs' compared to 'is' in your wording, and that is making a judgment in my view. In any case, we're back to where we always are in that nothing can be concluded until it actually happens and that each of our interpretations are very possible and capable to happening, which one of them does happen is still left to be determined so lets just end it at that.

There's also no reason to solidly think he can. While he may overcome certain things through out the story, there's been clean cut presentation that somethings, no matter the importance of what's on the otherside, can not be overcome. Season One ended on this premise. In fact, I can very easily say that Season One ended on the premise that 'Love Does Not Conquer All'.

But this is best saved for another thread, not this one.

It's a struggle when you come right down to it, because its still uncertain what exactly falls under the category of him overcoming something because he's still working towards it. I can just as easily go and say Season 2 begins on the premise one does have the power to overcome whatever obstacles stand in the way, despite the difficulty, because ones will is not so easily subdued by them. And I thought we established Season 1 didn't focus on love anyway, using love as a means certainly wasn't Lelouch's style of conquering in any case. I think a more fitting interpretation for how Season One ended was "Be careful of the consequences of your own actions" We'll see if Lelouch learned that lesson in Season 2, that's all really.

I'll also go out and say that while I note that a lot of your interpretations is based on only two view points, instead of going by the possibility that the viewpoint changes from each persons picture, and I could think of several ways in which the lines would fit for the individuals of each scene so I'll leave it on that note.

[Var]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

I'll contest to the first point that I already acknowledged the physical obstacles between them, case in point the kidnapping. But what you're asserting is an emotional barrier that has not been proven to exist, especially since she and Lelouch reached out to one another crying before she was taken away.

When I said not moving I meant in location wise, and possibly emotion wise as well from what little indication we have, and if we incorporate all the lyrics then location wise is being worked on while the emotions of caring and protecting her are still there for Lelouch, he's maintained that reasoning up to now and more then ever it is his core motivation, something that has not changed, at least in that respect.

Your sentence contradicts itself (see: bold). I'm not sure how you can tell me that the two have no drifted apart. What you said does nothing to counter the point that they no longer know each other. Nunally no longer knows her brother; he wears a mask when he's with her, and she with him. So I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the emotional barrier has been proven.

It does matter what his motivation is, the person he is is changing. The person that Nunally knew is Lelouch Lamperouge, not Lelouch Vi Britannia, and not Zero.

Also, the lyrics do not imply the location being worked on. The two of them are quickly being pulled apart.

The rest is irrelevant to this discussion. Though I will say this: many of your arguments depend to heavily on ifs. Its not an argument if the word if appears everywhere.

[KrimzonStriker]

I contested in the second sentence, but I used the first to recognize certain aspects in my previous argument I think you ignored. I'm going to go out and say that it's the complete opposite from my perspective, because Lelouch's true face is that caring older brother, case in point when he abandoned the rebellion for her. And well, you know I'm not going to argue with you about Nunnally's true face but even then the core feelings are still present even in that form >_>

Why are we speaking as if he's a different person? Lelouch is not some one-dimensional student, nor a one-dimensional pampered prince, nor a one dimensional vigilante terrorist leader, he's all of those things and more, he's also that caring older brother and that is present in all of the forms you just spoke of.

And from my point of view the lyrics imply a movement toward bridging the present gap, hence the in between yesterday and tomorrow, and then quickly going into not knowing where this fight will lead them. And that's exactly what is going on here, we don't definetively know what will happen in the end, so I'd appreciate it if you would stop making it seem like you do already know.

The whole argument is a big if, I thought you realised that, or maybe it's because you don't realise it that you make all these case-closed judgements. Our arguments are based on different interpretations and nothing really conclusive at this point, that doesn't stop me from putting out my own speculations out there and it doesn't prevent you from doing the same, but I at least make a point to note that nothing is definitive yet, because it isn't, as a sign of respect for other people's own assesments by not implying that my own interpretations are fact.