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Link #1481 |
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
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I don’t know about you, but I have male friends that have desire to help others. That was considered normal (noble even). Or, are you saying that, in Japan (or anime set-in-Japan), boys having desire to help others is suspicious and always has ulterior motives?
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Link #1482 | |
likes cute things
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Searching for more imoutos
Age: 43
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Link #1483 | |
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
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![]() Then again, there's always those criminals who pretend to be nice (like conmen, pickpocket groups, and rapists) but then take your precious things. So yeah, I think being careful is in order ![]()
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Link #1484 | |
Romanticist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Age: 33
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Altruism, just like egoism, can be quite undesirable when in excess. For that matter, I'm well-convinced that Taichi lies squarely on the excessive side.
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Link #1485 | |
Seishu's Ace
![]() Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kobe, Japan
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Link #1486 |
![]() Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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I respect that this topic is important to you, but I think this has already been discussed in this thread before, and I think threatens to bring this thread off-topic, since it's really more about what you perceive as a wider problem (and not really about this show in particular). If you would like to have a new discussion about this issue, please feel free to create a thread in the General Anime section where you outline the broader argument you wish to make.
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Link #1487 | |||
Seishu's Ace
![]() Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kobe, Japan
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Link #1488 | |
![]() Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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As long as the conversation stays on-topic to this show, it's okay.
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Link #1489 | |
Senior Member
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As for Guardian Enzo's point, I agree with it, and I think it's a legitimate point that's very much on-topic for this series thread. There's a certain abrasiveness to Inaba's interactions with Taichi that I think would get much more criticism if Inaba was male and Taichi female. One thing I've noticed is that sometimes Inaba will ask Taichi a question, and just because he goes into a little bit of detail she starts to snap at him for not keeping it really short. Honestly, that strikes me as kind of rude, and I doubt it would be well-received by most anime fans if a guy was being like that to a cute girl. Then there's moments that are like the physical equivalent of this (such as Inaba pinching Taichi's lips and her later flicking his head in this episode). It's nothing major - I've certainly seen much worse - But it's enough that I really do think that it's pretty one-sided to fault Taichi for anything that he said to Inaba if you're not willing to also fault her for this pattern of somewhat harsh treatment she's shown him. But even putting aside how Inaba can be a bit rough towards Taichi, we see how she also has a tendency to play fast and loose with her female friends' secrets. She keeps disclosing their secrets and/or threatening to do so if they won't do what she wants them to. Now, I personally find this deliciously ironic - The girl with trust issues is not entirely trustworthy herself. She's not somebody I'd want to confide secrets in, that's for sure. ![]() Just to be clear, I'm not saying this makes Inaba a bad character, or even a bad person. She definitely has her positive qualities to (she's smart, she's logical, I think she's the cast member that does the best job of seeing 'the bigger picture', in many ways she's 'the glue' that keeps this group functioning). I also think that Inaba cares a lot about her friends, but that she simply shows that in a mostly indirect way. I'd say that she's mostly a good person, but with rough edges to her. Inaba is not presented as an over-the-top tsundere, but she has a definite edge to her that makes her stand out. It's fair to say that Inaba can play rough with people, and I'm honestly glad that we see some of that in how she approaches other female characters as well (such as her snapping off at Yui in the latest episode). But this does mean that I have less issue with Taichi saying something a bit harsh to Inaba than I would have with Taichi saying something a bit harsh to Iori (who has been consistently nice towards Taichi).
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Last edited by Triple_R; 2012-08-22 at 00:27. |
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Link #1490 |
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
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Huh, so it’s back to “anime is being tougher on male characters than female character” issue? I thought we already discuss this in this thread some pages ago.
![]() Note: I also don’t agree with Shimapan’s post about Taichi being "an asshole" to Inaba considering that Taichi has no self-control at the time and Inaba also done the same (or even more, one could argue) to Taichi intentionally while her self-control was still intact.
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Link #1491 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Age: 31
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Even excessive altruism is infinitely better than excessive selfishness. I can understand that it can be annoying to insist on helping with things people don't need help with, but Taichi never did anything of the sort. If he's truly altruistic, he would put other people's feelings above his own need to help and so far he's doing a fine job at that. The only time he needed to do anything extreme, he gave up immediately when Iori said she didn't want that.
Last edited by Blonto; 2012-08-22 at 03:36. |
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Link #1492 | |
Romanticist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Age: 33
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The problem with claiming one side to be better than the other is that anyone can only do so with a specific reference point in mind. Likewise, changing the reference point can come up with an entirely different perspective. In my case, disregarding the self is every bit as abhorrent as disregarding others. The way I saw it, Taichi really crossed the line once he began imposing his own to beliefs onto to Himeko in that one scene. It's all well and good if he wants to kill himself for the sake of someone else, but if he expects others to make the same sacrifices he makes, then there is something seriously wrong with him.
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Link #1493 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Age: 31
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No, his anger was directed at Inaba's willingness to not get herself involved with a friend in need. Inaba is doing the exact same thing Yui is doing, she's avoiding normal contact out of fear that this new gimmick will make her hurt people even more. Aside from that, are you forgetting that Taichi's desire got released in that scene? He was frustrated at Inaba's passiveness regarding a friend who's suffering. The only reason he's "imposing his beliefs" is because he's saying what he's thinking due to this new gimmick. |
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Link #1494 | |
Senior Member
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But one particular point that I want to address is your claim that Taichi "crossed the line" during an "Id moment" (i.e. when he became angry with Inaba). That's the whole point of these "Id moments" - They cause you to cross certain social boundaries that normally you wouldn't. Truth be told, most people judge other people (i.e. assess them by our own moral norms and standards) everyday. It's just that we know it's generally rude, if not inappropriate, to try to impose those judgements on others except in the most egregious of cases (i.e. "Did you just murder that person?! What are you thinking?!"). But due to these "Id moments", both Taichi and Inaba (and likely other cast members as well, over time) are being more openly judgmental towards their friends than they typically would be. I think we need to be very careful in criticizing these characters for things they do or say during Id moments. At the very least, we shouldn't hold those "Id moments" to the same standards that we would things done or said with a character's inhibitions entirely intact. I'm sure a lot of people do/say stupid things while drunk that they would never do/say while sober. And that's much the same situation here with these "Id moments", I think.
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Link #1495 | ||||
Romanticist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Age: 33
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Let me clarify, I was not judging how Taichi acted in that single situation, but rather the undesirable aspects of his character that were exposed in the scene in question, including any hidden thoughts that he would not express otherwise.
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But those principles wouldn't necessarily apply to a person who does not believe that human lives are of equal value, for example an individual who holds a predominantly egocentric view. It sounds ugly, I know, but it's interesting how perspectives can change form by simply changing a few assumptions. Quote:
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Mind you, I'm not judging Taichi's personality here, but the way he condemned Himeko for just acting the way she did was a glimpse into a darker side of his psyche. Don't get me wrong. I actually like this development since it hints at something interesting behind that white knight facade of his. Quote:
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Link #1496 | ||
Senior Member
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There's no "undesirable aspect" of his character here. It's just being human. Taichi is not without his flaws, certainly. But he's not flawed simply for thinking that Inaba didn't care enough about Yui in that scene. Quote:
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Link #1497 | ||
Romanticist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Age: 33
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Still, I thought it was pretty clear that the very reason for Himeko's reluctance was for Yui's sake, so Taichi's reaction (or if you're a stickler for details, his impulse to react) was unwarranted. It could at least indicate some dire insensitivity on his part. Quote:
But I mostly agree on this point. His problem is that he values himself too little. Going along with this show's theme of exploring the "self", he is in danger of losing his ego as he sacrifices it for others, thereby, losing his concept of "self". Thankfully, it doesn't look like he's in too much danger since he clearly values some lives more than others (particularly those in the CRC). A true altruist, on the other hand, would value all lives equally.
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Link #1498 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Age: 31
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I think the problem is that there's been a misunderstanding between the two. Inaba does want to help Yui, but she's afraid of hurting her and her friends. But instead of accepting this, she turns to an interpretation of herself that she's most familiar with and paints herself as this selfish person who doesn't want to get involved. She thinks her reason for not helping Yui is because she doesn't care, when in reality it's just the opposite. Taichi simply works with what Inaba gives him. I agree that the idea of subverting Taichi's white knight persona is a much more interesting one since it makes the generic "good guy" harem lead more bearable and less Gary Stuish. I like what they're trying to do with his character, but the way the series is written, it's making it seem like being a helpful human being is somehow deranged. Quote:
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Link #1499 | ||
Romanticist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Age: 33
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Emotion is as much a part of the self as reason. Everyday social behavior is the result of the interplay between those two elements. However, one's emotions tend to be less apparent as they are usually suppressed to a certain extent by regulatory mechanisms controlled by reason. In that sense, it could be said that our cognitive faculties serve to obscure certain aspects of the self, particularly the less desirable ones. It's just that people tend to focus solely on reason as representative of the self.
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Link #1500 | |
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
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So I’m not dismissing emotion as the integral part, but emotion is just one ingredient to make human mind’s products. Thus, emotion alone does not necessarily represent how good or bad a person is. Much like your lower body can’t represent your entire physical figure. We have to consider the entirety.
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Tags |
body swapping, comedy, drama, romance, shounen, slice of life |
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