[Manga] Chapter 452 Discussion

[Sasuke_Bateman]

Haha the new spoiler is out Hunter. And wow it's a good one

Spoiler for 453:

Quick summary of the spoiler:

SJ cover is of Naruto. Spine is of some lady-frog, me thinks.
Chapter cover is in color

Tobi appears before Taka. Converstaion about Taka leaving Akatsuki, Tobi not being amused, or something, by this in addition to their failure on Hachibi.

They continue talking about Hachibi before moving onto Konoha. Tobi fills Sasuke in on the recent events and such.Tobi then says it's thanks to Sasuke and Pain that the Five Kage Summit is coming. Zetsu appears and tells Tobi that Danzou's Hokage now. Tobi taunts Sasuke with that.

Scene change to Naruto & co.
Omoi and Karui demands that Naruto tells what he knows about Sasuke. Naruto uses his infamous secret unnamed jutsu to convince them to cooperate to rescue Hachibi and stuff.

(Nja comments about the talk being too damn long)

Back to Sasuke
"IMMA KILL THE HOKAGE AT THE SUMMIT"

Tobi has a psuedo-monologue with Zetsu about his evil evil plans. At the end he says "EXECUTE THE EYE OF THE MOON PLAN"

Scene change to Suna, and Gaara
Gaara is heading to the Summit and tells Kankuro that he ain't need no escort.

End of chapter

[Frenchie]

I can hear the fangirls in the distance drooling over Gaara. (It makes a waterfall)

[tkdtiger]

this sounds pretty good. It seems that Pain was an important part of the puzzle for Madara and he's not in a happy mood.

[Rahan]

Originally Posted by tkdtiger

this sounds pretty good. It seems that Pain was an important part of the puzzle for Madara and he's not in a happy mood.

Spoiler for 453:

Nope ...
Madara basically says Nagato died because of Rinne Tensei but it's okay because Sasuke can surpass him. It confirms once and for all Nagato was just a pawn and nowhere near Madara level.
Also, Sasuke changes his heading. Guess we are in for a few more months of emo Naruto thinking about Sasuke and Sasuke thinking about revenge.

Spoiler for script of 453:

Cover is Naruto.

While Sasuke is racing to Konoha, Tobi warps in front of him.

stuff happens

Sasuke : Taka leaves the Akatsuki.
Tobi : As I said before, betrayers dies !
Taka : ?!
Tobi : It's really too bad, I had high hopes for you.

Then talks about Killer Bee.

Tobi : You almost got killed by the Eight Tails.

Then when Tobi heard they're going to Konoha ...
He tells them that Konoha no longer exists
And that Tobi's subordinate, Pain, destroyed the village.

Tobi : And that's not all. Thanks to you and Pain, they're going to be a Kage Summit.

Then Zetsu comes.

Tobi : What ? A new Hokage ?
Zetsu : They choosed Danzou.
Tobi : I knew it !
Sasuke : Danzou ...
Tobi : One of thoses elders who blackmailed your brother.

Then we see Naruto ...

Karui/Omoi = We'll avenge our master, spit out intelligence about Sasuke !

Naruto feels sympathy about them because they lost their master.

Naruto : Your master is a Jinchuuriki ? I'm a Jinchuuriki myself and
I'd like to help you save him.

Let's search for him together. We'll deal with Sasuke later, okay ?
Tell everything you know about Akatsuki.
Then they continue talking

Then we get back to Sasuke.

Taka's next move is ... attack the 5 Kage Summit and kill the new Hokage !

Zetsu splits in half ( ??? ) and the white Zetsu leads Sasuke.

Dark Zetsu : I hope it will go well.
Tobi : Yeah ...

Spoilers guys talk about what they think about the story ...
( Nothing interesting really )

Tobi : Nagato died too ... He used Rinne Tensei
It's because of Uzumaki Naruto ... Sasuke can become greater than Nagato ... I hope Sasuke can control ...

Tobi : The plan is going like planned.
We must continue the Eyeball plan !

Then we see SUNA and guess what FUCKING GAARA RETURNS ! He's going to the Kage Summit !
Then we see Kankuro and Gaara tells him he doesn't need him as a bodyguard.

[Mr. Johnny 5]

Originally Posted by Rahan

Spoiler for 453:

Nope ...
Madara basically says Nagato died because of Rinne Tensei but it's okay because Sasuke can surpass him. It confirms once and for all Nagato was just a pawn and nowhere near Madara level.
Also, Sasuke changes his heading. Guess we are in for a few more months of emo Naruto thinking about Sasuke and Sasuke thinking about revenge.

Spoiler for script of 453:

Cover is Naruto.

While Sasuke is racing to Konoha, Tobi warps in front of him.

stuff happens

Sasuke : Taka leaves the Akatsuki.
Tobi : As I said before, betrayers dies !
Taka : ?!
Tobi : It's really too bad, I had high hopes for you.

Then talks about Killer Bee.

Tobi : You almost got killed by the Eight Tails.

Then when Tobi heard they're going to Konoha ...
He tells them that Konoha no longer exists
And that Tobi's subordinate, Pain, destroyed the village.

Tobi : And that's not all. Thanks to you and Pain, they're going to be a Kage Summit.

Then Zetsu comes.

Tobi : What ? A new Hokage ?
Zetsu : They choosed Danzou.
Tobi : I knew it !
Sasuke : Danzou ...
Tobi : One of thoses elders who blackmailed your brother.

Then we see Naruto ...

Karui/Omoi = We'll avenge our master, spit out intelligence about Sasuke !

Naruto feels sympathy about them because they lost their master.

Naruto : Your master is a Jinchuuriki ? I'm a Jinchuuriki myself and
I'd like to help you save him.

Let's search for him together. We'll deal with Sasuke later, okay ?
Tell everything you know about Akatsuki.
Then they continue talking

Then we get back to Sasuke.

Taka's next move is ... attack the 5 Kage Summit and kill the new Hokage !

Zetsu splits in half ( ??? ) and the white Zetsu leads Sasuke.

Dark Zetsu : I hope it will go well.
Tobi : Yeah ...

Spoilers guys talk about what they think about the story ...
( Nothing interesting really )

Tobi : Nagato died too ... He used Rinne Tensei
It's because of Uzumaki Naruto ... Sasuke can become greater than Nagato ... I hope Sasuke can control ...

Tobi : The plan is going like planned.
We must continue the Eyeball plan !

Then we see SUNA and guess what FUCKING GAARA RETURNS ! He's going to the Kage Summit !
Then we see Kankuro and Gaara tells him he doesn't need him as a bodyguard.

Hmmm... it's actually annoying to hear.... things are going as planned.... in the end once Sasuke surpasses Madara and kills him he'll probably say as his last words.... as planned... or as expected... right...

How can one expect that Nagato pretty much the strongest we've seen so far to be defeated by a genin named Uzumaki Naruto? Naruto who was before his training perhaps just a little bit better then Kakashi.

As for Gaara.... i just hope he has greatly improved aswell it'll be nice to see him again.

[Cub-Sama]

I just read the chapter after being on holiday and is it just me or is Sasuke looking more and more like Madara as the chapters go on.

@Mr_Johnny 5 I bet he will probably say just as planned if Sasuke kills him because he already set his plans into motion and set himself up as an obstacle Sasuke must surpass to fulfill Madara's goals

[Hiking_Bear]

Originally Posted by Hunter

nobody care that you can use the word [evasion] for a broad range of meaning, it's not what the discussion was about.

They should care. Then, maybe we wouldn't get 3 pages of semantics arguments.

Originally Posted by astayanax

Amaterasu is not a short ranged jutsu; but a long ranged one (It can appear anywhere that the MS Sharingan user can see).

I'm not sure that's true. I've read sources stating that Amaterasu is a short range jutsu (0-5m). You might want to google that for yourself.

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

Why is nobody suspecting Naruto to be Madara? It makes no sense. There are only a few people trying to make up a broken theory about that, probably most of them said that the akatsuki leader is Yondaime, and they just don't learn. I like to make assumptions and create theories about something while there is very little known about an issue/person, however sooner or later the manga shows facts that deny some of the theories and then i drop the theory. People who didn't drop their Yondaime=Pain theory after facts denied that now are unable to drop their Madara=Danzou theory. Despite the manga showing more and more details that contradict such a theory.

I think it's the opposite. It seems that recently the manga has be leading us to make more and more comparisons between Madara and Danzo (hence why Danzo=Madara theories are now points of discussion).

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

You are trying to invent a method, but the problem is not about Madara being able or not being able to play Danzou's role. Of course he would be able to do that if Kishi wanted that. The problem is that if Madara was Danzou he would have done many things differently. The most simple: he would have already taken Naruto with himself to extract the demon or just to capure him until the other 8 demons are extracted. He would have leaked the Uchiha massacre story so to undermine Konoha. He wouldn't kill the messenger frog, since he would want that Naruto returns to the village and is captured by Pain. He wouldn't need Zetsu to be informed on what happened, since he was in the village and informed by Tsunade's slug. And finally it does not make sense for Kishi to copy his own work, since he already created Nagato who is able to control dead bodies, why would he make Madara do the same, that's not cool. The final villain must be original, Kishi had more than 10 years to create this final villain so i expect that he will be unique and interesting and not just a copy of other ninja. Also we must add to all this that Madara must not have too much power since then why would he need to hide, if he were able be Danzou and mizukage and masked guy at the same time then i don't think he would need to hide and rely on akatsuki, he could have taken Naruto whenever he wanted to.

There are pros and cons to the Danzo=Madara theory. You've listed many of the cons. Among the cons that was previously brought up by those in opposition of the theory was the idea that Madara would not be able to get away with being Mizukage and Danzo at the same time. We now know that Madara has a time/space jutsu allowing him to traverse large distances instantaneously (or at the speed of light) and we also know that the people in Danzo's organization are forbidden to talk about him (due to a seal placed on their tongues). So, the physical possibility for Danzo=Madara still exists.

One question is motive. Madara is extremely interested in Sasuke, while Danzo, on the other hand, has been trying to kill Sasuke. That is a con. But we can still question whether Danzo truly wants to kill Sasuke if we consider his previous assassination attempt using Sai. By all standards Sai was no match for Sasuke. So, was this really a huge miscalculation on Danzo's part or was this some piece of an elaborate scheme by Madara to try to turn Sasuke against Konoha?

Another question is how does Madara know so much about specific communications between Itachi and the Third hokage and Danzo? From Ch. 398:

Madara: "The only ones who knew the truth about Itachi were Danzo and the Third Hokage ... and the two advisors, Homura and Koharu.
...
Madara: "But I know the truth about him [Itachi] too... As I told you, he died not realizing that."

So, if Madara didn't find out about Itachi's history from Itachi himself, then how did he find out about it at all?

Lastly, there are important questions about Madara that are still unanswered. How did he survive what was thought to be a fatal battle against Hashirama? Is Madara still in his original body (which would be about 100 years old)? Why does Madara still wear a mask? It was already revealed that Tobi=Madara and we know what Madara looks like. Madara=Danzo theory could answer some of these questions, so I don't think it's safe to discard this theory just yet.

[elite-dreams]

Originally Posted by Hiking_Bear

Lastly, there are important questions about Madara that are still unanswered. How did he survive what was thought to be a fatal battle against Hashirama? Is Madara still in his original body (which would be about 100 years old)? Why does Madara still wear a mask? It was already revealed that Tobi=Madara and we know what Madara looks like. Madara=Danzo theory could answer some of these questions, so I don't think it's safe to discard this theory just yet.

maybe madara still doesnt wana reveal his face to outsiders? other than the akatsuki.
so if madara=danzo, is danzo a bunshin/or under control by madara?
and if i remembered correctly, we really never saw danzo in combat right? then how does the officials know if he powerful enough to protect konoha?