Gundam 00 Movie: A wakening of the Trailblazer - Discussion

[Infinite Zenith]

I'm personally not sure if the manga can be said to be official or not

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

We can't actually be sure what's going on there without a translation but I think it is FAR more likely that what happened in those pages had more to do with Innovator mental abilities than ELS bodywarping.

You mean that all on those pages are just mental illusion?

Originally Posted by ForwardUntoDawn

I'm personally not sure if the manga can be said to be official or not

Well, if it's legally printed and approved by Sunrise/Bandai, I think it's official, even though it's a lesser canon like SEED mangas.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

You mean that all on those pages are just mental illusion?

Probably. Can't be sure until its translated, and even then we should probably have the whole scene from the manga instead of those three page spreads for the full context. That blog post said it was a scanlation, but there was no translation included with it.

But yeah, given what we saw of how ELS assimilation works and what we've seen of Innovator capabilities, far more likely for that to be in a mindscape rather than something physical.

[kakakka]

Notice during that scene when they looked at each other (with younger Marina) they have changed of clothes (look at their necks where the collar of their clothes should be). I am betting more on symbolic, as explaining how Marina gets be young at that instant doesn't make sense (and trying to make it sense in my head involve process that would kill Marina first in gruesome ways... I'll pass)

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Well, if it's legally printed and approved by Sunrise/Bandai, I think it's official, even though it's a lesser canon like SEED mangas.

From what I remember, the manga contradicts some aspect of the movie... so in that case, it's not official. But who really cares, it's up to audience interpretation anyway.

[AmericanFairy]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

But yeah, given what we saw of how ELS assimilation works and what we've seen of Innovator capabilities, far more likely for that to be in a mindscape rather than something physical.

I never thought of it that way before. Interesting.

Originally Posted by kakakka

From what I remember, the manga contradicts some aspect of the movie... so in that case, it's not official. But who really cares, it's up to audience interpretation anyway.

The director did seem to intentionally leave Setsuna in an ambiguous relationship with both Feldt and Marina. In a way it's a shame since I'm sure fans were hoping for a more concrete answer. Yet, it might also be a good thing. Putting Setsuna in a romantic relationship might make the series look too much like SEED. Not a good thing in my book.

[monster]

Originally Posted by AmericanFairy

Putting Setsuna in a romantic relationship might make the series look too much like SEED. Not a good thing in my book.

00 must not have much of an identity or something unique if anyone thinks putting the main character in a romantic relationship is enough to make the show look too much like another show.

I personally don't think that's true at all.

[AmericanFairy]

Originally Posted by monster

00 must not have much of an identity or something unique if anyone thinks putting the main character in a romantic relationship is enough to make the show look too much like another show.

I personally don't think that's true at all.

What I meant was that focusing too much on the main character's romance could possibly turn into a melodramatic mess. I've never been able to finish SEED simply because I can't stand such high levels of melodrama. In fact, one of the things that I love about 00 is that it is politically driven, with plenty of action sequences to prevent those politics from becoming too drawn out and boring. Romantic relationship are fine, just as long as it doesn't take up half of the storyline. They somewhat entered the realm of melodrama with Saji and Louise, and to a lesser extent Allelujah and Marie, but the creators were able to pretty much dig them out of it by the time the movie came out and return most of the attention to action and politics.

Also, Setsuna still had a lot of personal issues to work out by the time Trialblazer takes place. There's a possibility that he just wasn't emotionally ready to be in a relationship. It would have been nice if this had been a season three instead of a movie so that we could have watched him gradually grow closer to a possible love interest. Assuming that he would have one. That would also help to prevent his character from looking too OOC.

It's really too bad that the director chose to tease us the way that he did. If done correctly then placing Setsuna in a romantic pairing could have had a positive effect on the story. After all, the first three OPs and early character interactions indicated that it was a possibility. Throughout the series we see Setsuna growing closer to Marina with the occasional interaction with Feldt. Then, it seems as though his relationship with former sort of plateaus as he grows closure with the latter. This trend appears to continue well into the film. And then... That stupid epilogue. I for one certainly didn't see that coming. Not that I really have anything against Setsuna and Marina. I just felt that the way it was handled was really awkward. Not to mention that I sat there wondering what happened to the rest of the cast.

[monster]

Originally Posted by AmericanFairy

What I meant was that focusing too much on the main character's romance could possibly turn into a melodramatic mess. I've never been able to finish SEED simply because I can't stand such high levels of melodrama. In fact, one of the things that I love about 00 is that it is politically driven, with plenty of action sequences to prevent those politics from becoming too drawn out and boring. Romantic relationship are fine, just as long as it doesn't take up half of the storyline. They somewhat entered the realm of melodrama with Saji and Louise, and to a lesser extent Allelujah and Marie, but the creators were able to pretty much dig them out of it by the time the movie came out and return most of the attention to action and politics.

For the most part, I would say it is the execution that matters, not whether or not something is in the show.

Case in point, much of the "melodrama" of SEED wasn't about the fact that the main character was in a romantic relationship, although it certainly played a factor.

If done correctly then placing Setsuna in a romantic pairing could have had a positive effect on the story.

There you go.

Of course, I suppose the problem is that there may be a lack of trust that they can do it properly, not to mention what's proper may be different for different people.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

I'm just surprised that a simple question-post by sniperz can make this thread alive again and bringing back the old topic of the movie's open-ending and Setsuna's romance .

[Dauerlutscher]

Well, and this is just my humble opinion, the only meaningfull interaction with a woman Setsuna had was Marina, the only woman that he ever bothers to think about is only Marina, the only woman he returnts to in the end of the story is Marina. I thing it is pretty obvious what the author was intending to show us with that.
Now we have the manga with an ending that gives just a better closure.
Here is also the raw for the first and second chapter.

Spoiler for Raw spoiler:

http://msg00.multiply.com/photos/alb..._Scans#photo=6
http://msg00.multiply.com/photos/alb...er_2_Raw_Scans

[AmericanFairy]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

I'm just surprised that a simple question-post by sniperz can make this thread alive again and bringing back the old topic of the movie's open-ending and Setsuna's romance .

I couldn't help but jump at the opportunity to talk about my favorite AU Gundam, lol.

Originally Posted by Dauerlutscher

Well, and this is just my humble opinion, the only meaningfull interaction with a woman Setsuna had was Marina, the only woman that he ever bothers to think about is only Marina, the only woman he returnts to in the end of the story is Marina. I thing it is pretty obvious what the author was intending to show us with that.
Now we have the manga with an ending that gives just a better closure.
Here is also the raw for the first and second chapter.

Spoiler for Raw spoiler:

http://msg00.multiply.com/photos/alb..._Scans#photo=6
http://msg00.multiply.com/photos/alb...er_2_Raw_Scans

I agree that, out of all of the women in Gundam 00, Marina often had the most influence on Setsuna. So it makes sense that a lot of the fans were thinking that they were intended for each other. Heck, even I was wondering what was taking them so long!

I don't think many of the fans consider this manga canon for two reasons. The first is because of the changes made to the storyline and how it deviates from the movie. The second is because it is written by a different author. All of the other side stories are written by Tomohiro Chiba, but Trailblazer is written by Kaishaku. Now I'm honestly not sure how most 00 fans would view this, but I'm treating this the same Gundam Wing's Ground Zero Manga. Since it was not written by one of the show's writers I personally don't consider it canon.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by AmericanFairy

I don't think many of the fans consider this manga canon for two reasons. The first is because of the changes made to the storyline and how it deviates from the movie. The second is because it is written by a different author. All of the other side stories are written by Tomohiro Chiba, but Trailblazer is written by Kaishaku. Now I'm honestly not sure how most 00 fans would view this, but I'm treating this the same Gundam Wing's Ground Zero Manga. Since it was not written by one of the show's writers I personally don't consider it canon.

Well, most of Gundam mangas and novels have never been canon to the anime in the first place. I think it’s a given that one media is not canon to others. Just like how Astray manga is not exactly canon to SEED anime no matter how hard anyone try to make it out to be. But I think the purpose of Gundam mangas besides telling its own story is to provide more insight (and in some cases, alternate view) to the universe they belong which may or may not be a part of the anime main-story.

Originally Posted by kakakka

From what I remember, the manga contradicts some aspect of the movie... so in that case, it's not official.

"Alternate story" does not mean "unofficial". One simple example: Zeta series & Zeta movies have different story and ending but both are official.

[kakakka]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

"Alternate story" does not mean "unofficial". One simple example: Zeta series & Zeta movies have different story and ending but both are official.

That works in animated works. Unfortunately, not on manga/novels/games/etc.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by kakakka

That works in animated works. Unfortunately, not on manga/novels/games/etc.

Umm...Gundam Wing anime and Gundam Wing: Glory of Losers manga are both official despite some "contradiction" in their stories. Glory of Losers is even so official Bandai made MG kits based on it .

[Destined_Fate]

Well, places like Sunrise only consider animated works canon. While those like Banpresto will use Anime, mostly, and manga for their Super Robot games depending on what is more well known and popular. Banpresto has also taken an Anime series and added in things from the Manga that were well received by plans. Of course SRW canon is only canon for their games but at least Banpresto recognizes Anime and Manga as their own canons that can be freely mixed together if need be.

Anyway, I loved 00 up until the movie ending. The randomness of it and than the huge time skip(which only gives some closure to Setsuna being a Silver Superman) really put me off.

[Znozzy]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Anyway, I loved 00 up until the movie ending. The randomness of it and than the huge time skip(which only gives some closure to Setsuna being a Silver Superman) really put me off.

not random, it even said " all the obstacles are cleared out " which side-materials go deeper into, like the innovator war, etc. Humanity is ready for deep-space exploration 50 years after they achived understanding with the ELS, Setsuna is shown to return to Marina since his mission is done.

The giant space-flower is a symbol of peace for Setsuna, since the ELS achived full understanding with Setsuna it's pretty obvious they would pick that flower as a symbol

One thing that did bother me was the lack of info regarding all the other CB members, Sumeragi was apparently highly respected since they named their first deep space exploration vessel after her. Allelujah/Marie was shown to be smiling the last time we saw them, so i'd call that a happy ending, Lyle was smiling aswell, hell, everyone was smiling!

[Mad Pierrot]

I heard the manga actually showed an extended ending for the movie where Setsuna and Marina seal the deal... somehow... Don't know how they solve this.

[SonicSP]

As a SetxMarina fan, I do wish the manga scene is true but it's kinda hard to integrate them.

If the manga adaptation (I consider them different from side stories, which expand things outside the anime rather than adapting the anime itself) go to lengths to synchronize with the anime like the novels did, than any new stuff they add might be more acceptable into actual main storyline but they're very different. They also didn't exactly get the director and co-director seal of approval in a disclaimer, unlike the novels. I believe the co-director directly had a statement at the end of S1Novel 1 saying that the novels were meant to add on information the anime; the way the novels were written kinda helps this as well since they're expansion mostly comes from monologues and narratives inside the actual scenes; as well as the occasional narrative that adds background and technological information in a scene such as political elaboration on the liberal and conservative divide in Azadistan and doesn't have contradicting scenes and events..

I even heard that Graham died a different death and the ELS Gadelaza appearing, among other things. A lot of different things happen in the Season 1 and 2 manga adaptations as well. The way the manga is written makes it very hard to add integrate anything new it writes into the main lore.

Honestly, I believe the Epilogue scene is really enough for me. It was a sweet scene of reunification between two people who played an important role in each others life. Romance could or could not be a part of it and hell it was something nice to see too.

[Rising Dragon]

Yeah in the movie manga, an ELS Gadelaza appeared, and was destroyed when Graham suicide-rammed it.

[SonicSP]

Originally Posted by Znozzy

One thing that did bother me was the lack of info regarding all the other CB members, Sumeragi was apparently highly respected since they named their first deep space exploration vessel after her. Allelujah/Marie was shown to be smiling the last time we saw them, so i'd call that a happy ending, Lyle was smiling aswell, hell, everyone was smiling!

Yeah, this was actually disappointing. It's also sad because the side materials didn't bother to talk about it either.

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Well, places like Sunrise only consider animated works canon. While those like Banpresto will use Anime, mostly, and manga for their Super Robot games depending on what is more well known and popular. Banpresto has also taken an Anime series and added in things from the Manga that were well received by plans. Of course SRW canon is only canon for their games but at least Banpresto recognizes Anime and Manga as their own canons that can be freely mixed together if need be.

Anyway, I loved 00 up until the movie ending. The randomness of it and than the huge time skip(which only gives some closure to Setsuna being a Silver Superman) really put me off.

I agree that the abrupt ending is bad, that's really my biggest negative point in the movie. I do however like the epilogue for the Marina scene that shows what happens to Setsuna as well as giving us a short glimpse of future humanity that has been fought in the 00 series since the start. I do wish it was longer though.