(L+CR) Chihayafuru Season 2

[SeijiSensei]

Originally Posted by hyperborealis

If Taichi has an inferiority complex, it seems to stem from his inability to reconcile his feelings towards Arata.

That, and Taichi's mother's insistence that he focus only on things he is naturally good at. I've always seen his decision to play karuta as a motivated both by his attraction to Chihaya and his desire to prove to himself he can become good at something through hard work and training. There is a little spite toward his mother in his decision as well, I think.

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

Yep, Harada does compete in the non-High School tournaments & he is a medical doctor.

I totally forgot that he competed in one of the tournaments last year. That's what I get for correcting TRL on who the team President is!

One has to wonder how much time Harada spends practicing medicine versus running his karuta salon. Maybe medicine in the morning and karuta in the afternoon and evening?

[Kirarakim]

Normally we disagree about Taichi, Hyperborealis but we were on the same wave length with this episode.

I think Taichi's thoughts also show that they really are a trio. Arata always thinks of both Taichi and Chihaya.

Chihaya often thinks of her longing for Arata but if she just longing for Arata or is she longing for the three of them to be together again?

And while Taichi sees Arata as a rival, he does very much love Arata as a friend. Anyways Taichi line about Arata encouraging him was one of my favorite moments of the episode.

The other was Shinobu's thoughts to her past when she realizes she was encouraged to isolate herself from girls her own age. Shinobu was told that these girls would make her weaker because she was so much better than them.

However, Chihaya is working to compete with Shinobu. This will not only encourage Chihaya to become a stronger player, but Shinobu as well.

[Blaat]

Maybe I've asked this before but when did Taichi became a B-class player?

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

That, and Taichi's mother's insistence that he focus only on things he is naturally good at. I've always seen his decision to play karuta as a motivated both by his attraction to Chihaya and his desire to prove to himself he can become good at something through hard work and training. There is a little spite toward his mother in his decision as well, I think.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

One has to wonder how much time Harada spends practicing medicine versus running his karuta salon. Maybe medicine in the morning and karuta in the afternoon and evening?

Don't forget spending time with his family (he's married at least). I wouldn't mind seeing "a day in the life of Harada sensei" omake.

[frodonk]

It's not like they spend everyday practicing karuta. Like any hobby, they might just practice it in their free time and on weekends. that's why they have those tapes. their schedules might not coincide most of the time so they practice alone, then meet on weekends to play against each other.

If I remember correctly back in season 1 on of those in the queen qualifiers was a full time office lady, I doubt that she practiced on weekdays given her work.

[hyperborealis]

Originally Posted by Blaat

Maybe I've asked this before but when did Taichi became a B-class player?

I don't believe we get this explained. In the first season, Taichi loses to Nishida in the high-school championship B-level finals, and we don't see him compete before then in any other tournaments, so he had to have started playing with Mizusawa already as a B. He does tell Harada he played karuta during middle school, so presumably then.

Originally Posted by Blaat

Don't forget spending time with his family (he's married at least). I wouldn't mind seeing "a day in the life of Harada sensei" omake.

I would too. It would be fascinating to watch Harada apply karuta wisdom to ordinary things. Plus I really really want to know something about Mrs. Harada!!!

Incidentally, Harada's specifically a pediatrician. We learn that early in the manga, when young Chihaya walks over to his clinic to return the karuta cards he's lent her, the time she decides to quit, seeing that both Arata and Taichi are moving away. So he does actually work, appearances to the contrary.

[SeijiSensei]

September manga volume to include original anime DVD

Keeping my eye out for this on the interwebs. No mention of what the DVD will cover.

[Blaat]

Exciting! I was really afraid that this season would be the end of Chihayafuru anime for a long while. I'm guessing it could be more omake or the continuation of the anime story.

Originally Posted by frodonk

It's not like they spend everyday practicing karuta. Like any hobby, they might just practice it in their free time and on weekends. that's why they have those tapes. their schedules might not coincide most of the time so they practice alone, then meet on weekends to play against each other.
If I remember correctly back in season 1 on of those in the queen qualifiers was a full time office lady, I doubt that she practiced on weekdays given her work.

I think it's best if you compare Karuta player with amateurs who seriously participate in a amateur league. They tend to practise two times (maybe more or less) in the evening during the weekdays while having a full time job followed by a league match in the weekend.
We do know from the first episode that Shiranami society meets at least twice a week during the weekdays. Sumire followed Taichi and we found out both Harada-sensei and Tsuboguchi-san were there.

Originally Posted by hyperborealis

I don't believe we get this explained. In the first season, Taichi loses to Nishida in the high-school championship B-level finals, and we don't see him compete before then in any other tournaments, so he had to have started playing with Mizusawa already as a B. He does tell Harada he played karuta during middle school, so presumably then.

Thanks! It was a bit unclear for me as I wrongly assumed that Taichi stopped playing karuta immediately during middle school. Minor correction though: Taichi did participate in the high-school championship B-level finals but it wasn't against Nishida that happened later.

Originally Posted by hyperborealis

Incidentally, Harada's specifically a pediatrician. So he does actually work, appearances to the contrary.

Harada sensei is a paediatrician? Something tells me that he gives away karuta cards instead of lollipops.

[Kirarakim]

Originally Posted by Blaat

Thanks! It was a bit unclear for me as I wrongly assumed that Taichi stopped playing karuta immediately during middle school. Minor correction though: Taichi did participate in the high-school championship B-level finals but it wasn't against Nishida that happened later.

He said they he played throughout middle school but quit before High School started because he realized he would never be as good as Arata.

I once made the point that this actually proves that Taichi did care about Karuta beyond his romantic feelings for Chihaya.

His romantic feelings pulled him back into the game but he most certainly did not start playing because of them.

[thalmann]

Originally Posted by Blaat

Thanks! It was a bit unclear for me as I wrongly assumed that Taichi stopped playing karuta immediately during middle school. Minor correction though: Taichi did participate in the high-school championship B-level finals but it wasn't against Nishida that happened later.

To make it clear, the final beetween Taichi and Nishida is called Yoshino tournament

And i remember someone Said Harada not compete in tournament is wrong - not much but he is actively playing in A-class tournament and East-region Meijin Qualifier Round

[frodonk]

I think it's best if you compare Karuta player with amateurs who seriously participate in a amateur league. They tend to practise two times (maybe more or less) in the evening during the weekdays while having a full time job followed by a league match in the weekend.
We do know from the first episode that Shiranami society meets at least twice a week during the weekdays. Sumire followed him and we found out both Harada-sensei and Tsuboguchi-san were there.

just goes to show how dedicated they are to karuta. not all members can do that though i think, and of course almost all the characters shown are very very dedicated to the game compared to casual players.

[thundrakkon]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

He said they he played throughout middle school but quit before High School started because he realized he would never be as good as Arata.

I once made the point that this actually proves that Taichi did care about Karuta beyond his romantic feelings for Chihaya.

His romantic feelings pulled him back into the game but he most certainly did not start playing because of them.

Didn't he start playing Karuta in elementary school because Chihaya was playing with Arata?

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

Didn't he start playing Karuta in elementary school because Chihaya was playing with Arata?

Taichi was already the best player in class when Arata showed up, not that skill meant much at that age.

[thundrakkon]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Taichi was already the best player in class when Arata showed up, not that skill meant much at that age.

I guess I have to rewatch those episodes. I thought his mom wanted him to quit because he was not the best, but he continued because Chihaya was enjoying time with Arata, which he wanted to be a part of.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

I guess I have to rewatch those episodes. I thought his mom wanted him to quit because he was not the best, but he continued because Chihaya was enjoying time with Arata, which he wanted to be a part of.

What does that have to do with him "starting" to play Karuta because of Arata and Chihaya, which was your original question? His Mom wanted him to quit after he didn't win the tournament, but that has nothing to do with starting to play in the first place.

[thundrakkon]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

What does that have to do with him "starting" to play Karuta because of Arata and Chihaya, which was your original question? His Mom wanted him to quit after he didn't win the tournament, but that has nothing to do with starting to play in the first place.

I think the difference was the heart to play. Originally, he started to play because he was good at it. It was not a desire to play. What I considered as "starting" to play is when he had a desire to play. Otherwise, the reason behind Taichi starting to play Karuta is because his mom wanted him to the best at something, which I don't think is a good reason from the story standpoint.

[GundamZZ]

It's a late realization for me. Chihaya must associate Rion-chan's last name with the mountain, as the mountain appears in the poem. It's also why she only remembers Rion-chan's last name. Chihaya calls Rion-chan as Yama-chan(dear mountain). Chihaya also calls Megumu as Megumu-chan(dear good dream) and Shinobu as Shinobu-chan(dear smooth poem). Rion's school is Fujisaki, so their T-shirt's logo is Mt. Fuji. To her school, Mt. Fuji is their culture symobl. It's equivalent to Jerusalem's Zion mountain.

[Kirarakim]

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

Didn't he start playing Karuta in elementary school because Chihaya was playing with Arata?

But this doesn't have to do with romantic feelings. Chihaya and Arata introduced him to the game outside the classroom.

And he continued playing after that in middle school.

[hyperborealis]

Originally Posted by thalmann

To make it clear, the final beetween Taichi and Nishida is called Yoshino tournament.

Thanks. That's what comes of not checking first.

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

I think the difference was the heart to play. Originally, he started to play because he was good at it. It was not a desire to play. What I considered as "starting" to play is when he had a desire to play. Otherwise, the reason behind Taichi starting to play Karuta is because his mom wanted him to the best at something, which I don't think is a good reason from the story standpoint.

Taichi starts to play since karuta is another school activity. We learn that in the first chapter, when the classroom teacher sets out learning the 100 poems as a class objective (and praises Taichi for being the first to memorize all 100.) So, as you say, Taichi starts karuta with no particular desire to play the game for its own sake.

Why Taichi continues to play after the class tournament is complex. There's a sense of rivalry with Arata, a guy refusal to be second best. Taichi also seems nettled by both Chihaya and Arata's criticisms of his character, as when Arata calls him a coward, and when Chihaya gives him a withering look for his efforts to send Arata to Coventry. The manga shows him ashamed of himself, so staying with both Chihaya and Arata seems to represent an effort to change. Finally, the whole difficult experience of the school tournament, where Taichi confesses taking Arata's glasses, and Arata names him a coward, is a kind of bonding moment between the two boys. They know each other now on a fairly personal and intimate level, which pushes them toward becoming friends. Taichi keeps on with karuta as a way of continuing that friendship.

Doesn't Harada say somewhere that a person can only continue karuta if he or she is supported by friends? I would guess the reason Taichi stops playing in middle school is since he lacks this support, Chihaya and Arata specifically. And he starts up again in high school, since he has that support back.

Certainly high-school Taichi has a romantic interest in playing karuta, as a way of getting close to Chihaya. And he has a personal interest in playing karuta, since it is the medium he has chosen by which to improve his character, not run away, etc. But I also think the desire to maintain his friendships, and with Arata specifically, is a core reason for why he plays karuta.

Having said all this, I don't know that Taichi plays karuta for its own sake, out of love for the game, since it's fun. Kirarakim and I have had an extensive argument about this, so I won't reprise it.

[thundrakkon]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

But this doesn't have to do with romantic feelings. Chihaya and Arata introduced him to the game outside the classroom.

And he continued playing after that in middle school.

I always felt that he wanted to get close to Chihaya, and Arata was succeeding with Karuta, so he went with them in an effort to both get closer with Chihaya and man up to be friends with Arata.

As for playing afterwards, I guess he did enjoy it for awhile. However, the fact that he gave up on it is also telling. One, it was his inferiority complex versus Arata in Karuta. The other reason was that his heart was not into it. If it was, he would have continued to play regardless.

Originally Posted by hyperborealis

Why Taichi continues to play ...

Doesn't Harada say somewhere that a person can only continue karuta if he or she is supported by friends? I would guess the reason Taichi stops playing in middle school is since he lacks this support, Chihaya and Arata specifically. And he starts up again in high school, since he has that support back.

Thanks for the analysis. I still believe that if he truly loved Karuta, he would not have needed the "support" to continue to play. Arata stopped because of a traumatic event, which he was still living in, that involved Karuta. Taichi stopped since he felt that he could never beat Arata, so it was a "waste of time" in a sense. With Arata, as soon as he resolved the turmoil in himself, he continued to play what he loved. Taichi had ulterior motives to start playing again, in which you addressed here:

Originally Posted by hyperborealis

Certainly high-school Taichi has a romantic interest in playing karuta, as a way of getting close to Chihaya. And he has a personal interest in playing karuta, since it is the medium he has chosen by which to improve his character, not run away, etc. But I also think the desire to maintain his friendships, and with Arata specifically, is a core reason for why he plays karuta.

Originally Posted by hyperborealis

Having said all this, I don't know that Taichi plays karuta for its own sake, out of love for the game, since it's fun. Kirarakim and I have had an extensive argument about this, so I won't reprise it.

Love is a strong word. I think he likes Karuta, but I'm not convinced he loves it. To him, it probably is a bond to his friends; hence, he continues to play it. He might at some point love it, but certainly not right now. I definitely agree with you in that regards.

[hyperborealis]

This is an interesting argument. On the other hand, perhaps the mangaka is just setting up Taichi's path of development, so the fact that he drifts away from karuta in middle school is just a foil to the character development that has transpired over the course of the narrative. Further, the theme of abandoning karuta only to return to it with renewed determination repeats itself with other characters, including Arata, Murao, Nishida, and the fellow who Suoh crushed in last year's finals, so we need not read anything particular in Taichi's disaffiliation from the game.

I wonder if Taichi doesn't represent a different mode of engagement with the game that Chihaya's. She is about passion, having fun, loving the game. But there is another way of seeing the game, which we learn from Harada in the second epiosde of the current season, when Sumire asks him what's so fun about karuta, and he says paradoxically he himself doesn't know, and that he has been playing for 45 years in an effort to find out. From this standpoint, karuta is a struggle, a constant effort to get better, a lot of painful work, rewarded mostly by failure and bad luck, and only rarely and almost incidentally by success and victory. This is a fairly good description of the way Taichi experiences the game, don't you think?

So, maybe to ask whether Taichi loves karuta is the wrong question. However, he does seem to be fully invested in the game, in this painful and agonistic mode of his (and Harada's). I don't think he is playing just for ulterior motives, say for Chihaya to notice him, or to prove something to himself about his character, or to separate himself from his mother, even though all of these things are clearly factors in his mind. Someone posted once that "to be Taichi is to suffer," or words to that effect. I think that is true, but in a deeper sense than the poster intended. Taichi is a poster-child for the uncomfortable idea that life is best lived through painful struggle and suffering.