One Piece - Chapter 519 [Manga]

[C.A.]

Originally Posted by Fipskuul

There is not enough information on haki, so I doubt we can assume you as a virtual-Oda here, even with all your past history based on what you claim. I hope you can understand that.

Don't worry, I understand that, my stuff stays as theory only, as long as Oda doesn't approve them lol

But one thing about Haki is that its a fully variable factor and each individual has their own Haki peaks and tolerances, which I'm sure people know that from Shanks and Rayleigh's demonstrations.

And people may not like it, but yes, I actually stated in one of my older posts that everyone has Haki, its just whether they are significant or not. Again the different levels of Haki. A weak crook can't scare someone strong, but he sure can scare some kids. That's Haki at very low levels. Those whose Haki is strongest in a group, will stand out to become leaders.

When Luffy's not around, they listen to Zoro.

Well, do acknowledge that I'm only providing my theory just to help the fandom understand Haki better. I wasn't even in this subforum until the Haki thread appeared.

[harijaja]

@C.A.

I understand your point. And correct me if i'm wrong. For you haki is not only "the power" but in a more energy-spiritual based thing. I perfectly understand and agree with you that haki is what can attract or repel people. BUT only at a certain level, and seeing haki not as a power per se but more like the energy the chi or ki or aura or vibe or what ever people want to call it. I perfectly understand it and personally i think it attract situations and things. And for that reason get Luffy closer to his dream and people to actually support his dream. What i don't like is people seeing it as "the power" and that the crew is bind because of haki like in the power. But lets look at it in more like the way of the vibe and energy. And i know because somehow i (and i know maybe all of you) feel sometimes there are people who just have this energy that repels you ^_^.

And that's why i'm agree with 'Fipskuul'. Then almost everybody if not anybody in one piece have haoushoku them (if one of the rare power of haoushoku is make people feel attracted and admire you) Because even Ussop have people who admire him and feel attracted to him and strongly believe in him and that he will become the must brave warrior of the seas. And i believe it too! ^_^ But is it because his haki 'power' is reaching me? :P

So like 'Fipskuul' said " I think it is better, for now, not to explain every little thing about will using Haki." And i say " I think it is better, for now, not to explain every little thing about everything that's happening now using Haki." ^_^

[Rainbowman]

Let's focus on the next chapter.

[Rageaholic01]

Originally Posted by marvelB

I posted the picture a couple of pages back, but here it is again:







^ THAT kid, with the sunglasses. His face kinda resembles Spandam before he was forced to wear the mask....

Thanks, but when i first saw that kid, i was thinking it looked like Franky lol

[LeoThugs]

The problem here is that most of you think of Haki mainly as a bad ass fighting force like Reiatsu in Bleach. But if you really listen to C.A, you'll see that this fighting power stems from Haki. It is not ' the haki'.

When Luffy screamed at the sisters and told them to stop. That was not all his haki. That was just a burst of haki directed towards making the sisters bend to his will. The main haki is withing Luffy. His desire to protect his nakama, his ambition to find one piece and become the pirate king. His love for Shanks and the Straw hat given by him. All these intense feelings make up his haki. And IT IS Luffy's haki binding all the Strawhat members together. It is his thirst for adventure and love for nakame that has infected all the members and instilled in them a love for each other and respect for each other's ambitions. It is only after seeing Luffy defy death and keep on fighting for his nakama that they also think that way. So they have all bended towards the will (haki ) of Luffy and aspired to become the nakama that he wants.

Maybe it is hard for some people to get it, but a single purpose on one's mind can sometimes be so intense and the person can be so passionate and focused about that one relation, purpose or dream. That the people around the person can sense something radiating from within the person. That is Haki. Oda has gone one step further and made it possible for people to channel that Haki in different ways. And I believe that unlike reiatsu or chakra, you can't run low on Haki.

Correct me if I am wrong anywhere C.A, but thats what I've understood about Haki so far. That its the determination, confidence and passion inside a person all blended in together.

Think of it more like Austin Power's 'MOJO'.

[C.A.]

Yes, I think you're understanding Haki very well. Definitely close to what Oda's been hiding but slowly revealing, at least from what I'm getting.

I think Oda will never put a definition down for Haki, its something for the characters and the readers to feel and realise it themselves. And so far all the impressions we've got from Luffy is his Haki at work.

[harijaja]

Originally Posted by LeoThugs

When Luffy screamed at the sisters and told them to stop. That was not all his haki. That was just a burst of haki directed towards making the sisters bend to his will.
Think of it more like Austin Power's 'MOJO'.

Umm i don't think that's true. Did they really BEND TO HIS WILL??? nop. I think they were more surprised and frightened at what just happened and that's why they dropped the girl...

[C.A.]

Originally Posted by harijaja

Umm i don't think that's true. Did they really BEND TO HIS WILL??? nop. I think they were more surprised and frightened at what just happened and that's why they dropped the girl...

Isn't that bending to Luffy's will?

Luffy didn't want them to smash Magaret and yelled to stop them. Luffy was so strong in his intentions and shouted with such ferocity that even they who had strong Haki themselves were intimidated and thus dropped Magaret and not smash her completely.

Did Luffy's will, in this case, asking them to stop, not reach them? Did he fail to cause them to smash Magaret? No he did not fail, his will reached them and bended their wills, which in their case is to smash Magaret.

That is what we've been saying, the bending of others wills, causing others to not do what they are intending to do.

I really can't think of how to get people understand Haki, doing one by one is extremely tedious.

[harijaja]

Originally Posted by C.A.

Isn't that bending to Luffy's will?

Luffy didn't want them to smash Magaret and yelled to stop them. Luffy was so strong in his intentions and shouted with such ferocity that even they who had strong Haki themselves were intimidated and thus dropped Magaret and not smash her completely.

Did Luffy's will, in this case, asking them to stop, not reach them? Did he fail to cause them to smash Magaret? No he did not fail, his will reached them and bended their wills, which in their case is to smash Magaret.

That is what we've been saying, the bending of others wills, causing others to not do what they are intending to do.

I really can't think of how to get people understand Haki, doing one by one is extremely tedious.

As i said i don't think it had anything to do with the power outburst Luffy had and less 'bending' to Luffy's will. I think yo have to explain what you view of 'bending to others will' is. For me bending to others will is to do something even if you don't want to, and you can't help it. Like when the amazons saw Hancock trowing the old lady through the window, and they couldn't help but agree with her when she said her hand slipped.

Here i saw only a scene where people were simply surprised. Even the way they were acting suggest me that even is Luffy didn't have the haki thing they wouldn't have really smash the girl in the floor and just said something like "See?? you can't do nothing!! muahahah" or something like that. Come on!! Counting to smash the girl?? it just seemed like a horrible teasing to me.

I think i understand what you think haki is. And i exposed it in my other post. What i don't see fit is that we try to explain every single thing happening now with haki. I bet haki is not that complicated and have much less to do with will and all that than what we are trying to pull here. Come on if this would have happened without the girls passing out and people mentioning about haki everybody would think they were just surprised like it has happened so many times before!! Let's just try for now stick explain what haki might be rather than applying what we think it's to everything that's happening now in OP.

And and would gladly expose my views in the haki thread.!!

[C.A.]

Yes indeed Haki is an extremely simple concept that upon the 2 kanji, it already tells us Asians, what it is. And because its such a simple concept, it is actually in pretty much every thing because its usually the fundamentals of a story. The concept of Haki is in pretty much every Chinese manhwa there is and lots of Japanese manga. Its something that we see very often and a very good and not too farfetched concept that works.

Haki is in One Piece right from the start, Oda has established that without telling us what it is until now. Which he is now telling us that Haki is the key for the story to progress and the crew to become stronger.

For 'bending wills', you're seeing it no different than I am. I don't know why you can see the case in your example but can't see the same in Luffy stopping the sisters from smashing Magaret.

The sisters no smashing Magaret is exactly that, they suddenly stopped doing what they wanted to do, because they were surprised by Luffy's anger. That anger is Haki.

Haki is not a mysterious energy or force out of no where. It is the individual's character and will itself. When you get angry that's a way to release your Haki, people feel that anger coming from you. When Luffy got angry and shouted for them to stopped, it surprised the sisters, THAT's Haki at work.

I'm just repeating myself.

Haki is just there, that anger he spread, the fear he spread, the way he shocked/surprised the sisters, that's all Haki at work.

Again I say, Haki is not some mysterious force, its just the person's character, emotions, feelings, will and desires. Basically meaning that's what makes you as a human, your spirit, your lifeforce. In life you have struggles, your have obstacles, you overcome them, with what? With Haki, that's your will and determination.

People can choose not to believe, but what I've been saying is the tried and tested concept of Haki which I read and learnt from the other manga, manhwa and stories I've heard. The concept of Haki is something that pulls no strings, comes and builds with character development and allows characters to carry on and proceed to their goals. Because its their character, emotions for interaction, fighting spirit to defeat opponents and desire to achieve their dreams. Something that fits perfectly in the story of One Piece.

[harijaja]

And i must say that i agree with you. But what i'm trying to say and is good that you mention it, is that what's happening is not related to the 'Haoushoku' haki or as the 'haki' in the power that makes people faint and all that. And i exposed that when i said that if the haoushoku haki is to be admired respected and to make people do your will, even ussop have it. Because always you will find someone that admire you and will do whatever you say to them.

I read your post and i understand that you see haki as i see it. Not only as the power that have been shown to make people faint and hurt luffy, and nullify this or that or read movements. But as something all living (and i believe non-living too) have, is the energy that everything have. And just like people bind to someone more powerful. The river change it's flow because of the rock. (hope not being too spiritual or zen here ^_^)

But i see some people have some misconception about what you are trying to pull and think of it as "the power".

I also have read in some post that BB mentioned Haki before. And some people are starting to connect it to the actual reference of haki as the power. BUT i don't think that. I think he referred to Haki as the will only. Why?? because if we take into account that the Amazons are experts in haki (and until now the only ones referring to haki as in the power.) then why didn't they see or sensed anything until luffy screamed and left that power out?? And we haven't see luffy doing that. So i t don't think BB was talking about haki the power. Another thing i found weird is: why now?? I mean, of course because of story plot line but luffy have felt stronger emotions before. Like when Bartolomew was sending them one by one and luffy saw namy screaming his name for help!!! that was a emotion (at least for me) 100 times stronger that what happened in this chapter.

Can the using of haki as in the power be related to physical condition? if it's then; is the power as it not just having a strong will or emotion but depends also on a physical condition, and 'that' haki can be drawn up??

[C.A.]

LOL, you know, I think our 'Haki' just connected, our wills were sort of going against each other but now reached the same wavelength. This is how Luffy's or any of his Nakama forms friendships at first. They see to a common point.

About Black Beard mentioning Haki, yes he did back at the Bellamy mini arc. And yes he sensed Luffy's Haki as his will, actually as his ambition or desire to become someone strong, one who will chase his dreams to the end.

And my views on Amazons saying that the 'outsiders' don't know how to used Haki is literally what they mean and what they do. Like infusing Haki into arrows, that is something definitely not seen anywhere else. The Amazons are brought up in a society where Haki is everything and part of everyday lives, they can harness their Haki and work it in many ways.

But outside Amazon, people do have Haki, but its not a concept that everyone knows and those who know don't use it like the Amazons do. But yes the most powerful people like, the 4 kings and their crew, the shichibukai, the admirals, they definitely use Haki in their own ways.

And you pointing out about Kuma separating the crew, is a very good point. Luffy's emotions have reached a peak, he never felt he crew torn up as much as this before, this results in his anger feeding his Haki even more than before. But when he stepped into Amazon Lily he calmed down a little and the new environment is intrigues him, but not drawing out his Haki because he wasn't as agitated as he was just a while before, losing his crew.

Only when he was again agitated by the Sisters trying to smash Magaret, did his Haki once again peak, revealing his pent up rage in a very strong Haki burst.

Well, these situations can be seen in different ways, but as long as you or anyone else can understand what Haki really is, I'm pretty glad lol

[Rainbowman]

Hey Hey, this discussion is over. Let's move on shall we?

[C.A.]

So, does that mean our discussions of Haki here should be discarded and forgotten as this chapter is past and the thread has become useless?

I'll just say I'm very glad that there are people who understands Haki well on their own. And if this thread should be left behind, I'd very much want our discussion to be on the Haki thread.

[Rainbowman]

Originally Posted by C.A.

So, does that mean our discussions of Haki here should be discarded and forgotten as this chapter is past and the thread has become useless?

I'll just say I'm very glad that there are people who understands Haki well on their own. And if this thread should be left behind, I'd very much want our discussion to be on the Haki thread.

Not that the thread would be useless, but I was just saying this out of progress. Having to continue a discussion after a new chapter discussion is released is like living in a black hole that no one would be able to escape from for eons.