Macross - Mecha, Weapons, and Technology

[Urei]

Could the VF-25 be a more pilot friendly version of the VF-19 concept? (and hopefully less expensive) While it is the top end fighter right now, it seems to be designed to become a mainstay fighter rather than an elite fighter like the VF-19 and VF-22s were.

It is designed to be a next generation fighter. Is it more friendly, I can't really tell. The technology gap between 19/22 and 25 seems to be far to big to say anything. There is no solid info about VF-25 specifications but it was stated by Kawamori that it incorporates many new technologies. Speed and maneuverability, as well as the transformation system prove that it is indeed far more advanced. Also, I think it is safe to assume that the advancement in craft technology is followed with the advancement of piloting mechanisms.

VF-0/1
VF-4
VF-11
VF-17/171
VF-25

Well, VF-19 was incorporated as the main Fighter and it was mass produced. Variants of the Excalibur were also released, like S and F. Also VF-19 was redesigned for space combat unlike YF-19 making it less hard to control. I wouldn't omit this plane in the setup. VF-17 wasn't the core fighter in any time. It was adapted as the second line fighter. A redesigned version 171 was on the other hand.

VF-17D was an elite fighter in some fleets like M7 and was later replaced with VF-22.

Actually in episode 7, Alto in a VF-25F with Super Pack even had a hard time following Ozma around who was using a VF-25S with Armored Pack. It made it seem like the VF-25S with Armored Pack was FASTER than the VF-25F with Super Pack.

Well, Ozma did a set of some incredible maneuvers with Full Armor and went on ahead while Alto was more or less, stunned by the show

[Ithekro]

Does that place the VF-19 and VF-171 on the same generation of fighters, or would the VF-25 be a 6th generation fighter?

I guess the Mainstay fighter of the Earth Forces should be the VF-191, but I suppose in Macross 7, we saw the VF-19 do hero stuff way too much for it to be passable as a "grunt" fighter now. Maybe other fleets use the VF-19s and modified versions of it with the new controls systems and upgrades like the VF-17 got. Or perhaps it wasn't compatible with the upgrades (too small) verses the VF-17. That might never be answered in story.

[Urei]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Does that place the VF-19 and VF-171 on the same generation of fighters, or would the VF-25 be a 6th generation fighter?

I guess the Mainstay fighter of the Earth Forces should be the VF-191, but I suppose in Macross 7, we saw the VF-19 do hero stuff way too much for it to be passable as a "grunt" fighter now. Maybe other fleets use the VF-19s and modified versions of it with the new controls systems and upgrades like the VF-17 got. Or perhaps it wasn't compatible with the upgrades (too small) verses the VF-17. That might never be answered in story.

I think that the usage of VF-19 might have been delayed by the redesign issues. It took a year to deploy it after conclusion of AVF Contest. Also, it was only 4 years from deployment of Excalibur to it's appearance as Excalibur Custom in M7. Also, near the end of M7 we saw a few VF-19S and F. I think the hero role was only reserved for the 'Custom Basara Electric Guitar I won't shoot' fighter.

I'm certain that other fleets did use 19's on regular basis. If not at the start then later on for sure. I also think that VF-171 is not only a simple redesign of the second line Nightmare. It was stated that it's more friendly and easy to use, versatile, with lot's more equipment options then the predecessors. I believe this includes Excalibur too.

I also think that 171 might produce the same if not better performance results then the mass produced 19's. After all, it's a redesigned version of 17 equipped with newest technology. This might also be the reason why it's more friendly then the previous unit.

[C.A.]

KiNa posted the VF-32 in the image thread, not sure if its here: http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...postcount=1629

But, its called 'Vespa'. VF-32 Vespa.

Nice name, since I'm a Vespa fan lol

Those who have the Macross Chronicle magazine, in volume 3, there's a featured VF-5000 Starmirage.

[Urei]

Yes, as much as I like those little side designs that never got much screen time, Star Mirage is one of the VF's I want the least to look at

[Cadorna]

i like the VF-9 too, and VF-4 they have to do a serie about the time of the older fighter

[Danish78]

Wow! An F-16 inspired VF. Cool!
I hope they go back to an FSW (forward swept wing) design for a next gen VF. I so want something like a next gen VF-19 Excalibur. It wouldn't hurt if it was inspired by the Su-43 Berkut/(forgot the NATO designationfor it).

[Urei]

Well, I was dissapointed with VF-25's design because I really liked Excaliburs fresh look. Forward Sweep looks really nice and it also had the high speed back sweep capability. The Plus version was the best in my opinion. Macross 7 was a let down with redesigns in my opinion.

As the time passed I accepted Messiah's look. Somehow it got to me and firmly repleced Excalibur. I can't even say why. Right now I preffer it's design to any other VF. 27 is also nice and it may rank second on my list. It has a nice Lightning III feel to it

[Danish78]

For me the Excalibur is the prettiest VF ever designed. Definitely looking like a "hero-unit" or as close to the concept as it'll ever get in the Macross universe although at least for me it was always lacking in the firepower department. The Sturmvoggel 2 gets my vote for having the best weapon spec for a VF, twas a bit bulky/ungainly but when it brought its full weapons load to bear.... whoa!
VF-25 and VF-27 are currently the main fighter and the spec-op fighter at the top of VF development/evolution respectively. Pretty awesome, nuff said!

[Urei]

VF-22 was one of those VF's that didn't change that much even after adapting it into space environment. I'm starting to see this unit in a new light now.

And could you tell me more about those weapon specs? I know that both YF-19 and 22 had Super Packs. Though those were a bit, weak, they still provided more firepower. I can't find anything on any additional packs for VF-22 though. Only it's fixed armaments.

[Cadorna]

The VF-22 has te same laser guns in the arm as the queadulum Ra, the steal gunpod and a over load of MICRO-MISSILE,48 total, and other misiles.

[Danish78]

Originally Posted by Urei

VF-22 was one of those VF's that didn't change that much even after adapting it into space environment. I'm starting to see this unit in a new light now.

And could you tell me more about those weapon specs? I know that both YF-19 and 22 had Super Packs. Though those were a bit, weak, they still provided more firepower. I can't find anything on any additional packs for VF-22 though. Only it's fixed armaments.

Can't find any super pack data either, this is all I got (Macross Mecha Manual, can't verify if its accurate either)
# VF-22 Armament -
Guns:
# 1 x fixed high-powered converging energy cannon (mounted center dorsal section in Fighter/GERWALK mode, becomes head turret in Battroid mode)
# 2 x semi-fixed internal converging energy cannons featuring forward/rearward barrels (mounted underneath tail stabilizers in Fighter mode, lower arms in GERWALK/Battroid modes)
# 2 x Howard/General GV-17L new standard cartridge-less Gatling gun pods featuring retractable grip/stealth covers in Eight hard point weapon stations (mounted left/right internal ventral fuselage in Fighter mode or inside leg storage bay cover panels and/or manipulators in GERWALK/Battroid modes)
# 1 x fixed fighter-carried pin-point barrier system
# 2 x arm shields (tail stabilizers in fighter mode, lower arm in GERWALK/Battroid modes); function in concert with barrier system.
Bombs & Missiles:
# 3 x internal all-environment rapid-fire micro-missile launchers featuring 4 x dorsal exit ports and 4 x ventral exit ports (mounted in center dorsal section to sides of engine nacelles and center ventral section to the rear of nacelles).
Optional Armament:
# estimated 2 x exclusive internal pallets for mounting reaction warheads.

Sorry if I can't provide any more info. Will try to look it up some more.

[grss1982]

sketchley a regular at MW posted some neat information about the VF-27 and the VF-25

Link: http://macrossworld.com/mwf/index.ph...c=27033&st=540

Originally Posted by sketchley

Great Mechanics.DX 10 came out. Picked it up, and was blown away by their VF-25 vs VF-27 article. Why? Hard and fast stats on the VF-25 and the VF-27!!!

Translation of the stats: http://www.macrossroleplay.org/forums/inde...ic=1934.new#new

There is a bunch more to the article, and there is at least a paragraph or two devoted to the ISC. Sadly, I don't have any more time to translate the article (too busy with RL, and my translating plate is full of Macross Chronicle).

What's surprised me is that the VF-25 doesn't have any internal (micro) missile launchers. Where the heck did those missiles come from in episode one?!?!

So I guess the age old question on whether or not the VF-25 has internal missles has been finally answered, I guess.

Spoiler for VF-25 vs. VF-27 by sketchley (hidden to save space):

Stats as per the article:

VF-25
Development: Shinsei Industry/ Macross Frontier Arsenal Original Development/ LAI Company technology [technological] support based it on the YF-24 Evolution [evolution from the YF-24].

Overall Length: 18.72 m (fighter configuration)
Empty Weight: 8,450 Kg
Engine: Shinsei Industry/ P&W/ RR made FF-3001A Stage II thermonuclear reaction turbine engine (in space [the void of space], maximum thrust of 1,620 KN) x2
High manueverability thruster: P&W HMM-9
Maximum atmospheric speed: M 5.0+ ([at] 10,000 m, on account of the fuselage heat-resistance boundary. It is possible to reach satellite orbit with the normal specification(s))

Base weapons: 12.7 mm coaxial beam gun (Mauler ROV-217C) x1 (set in the monitor head), choice of either 25 mm high-speed machine gun [cannon] (Remmington ES-25A) or 25 mm beam machine gun [cannon] (Mauler ROV-25) x2, 58 mm Gattling gun pod (Howard GU-17A). The 25 mm machine gun [cannon] and gun pod are later refit with the anti-Vajra MDE warhead specification.

ISC (Inertia Store Converter): Shinsei Industry Macross Frontier Asenal / LAI Company self-development specification ISC/TO21

Special: possible to equip with Super Pack or Armoured Pack
Can cope with a fold booster.


VF-27
Development: Original Development by the Macross Galaxy Variable Fighter Development Arsenal based on the YF-24 Evolution [evolution from the YF-24].

Overall Length: 18.8 m (fighter configuration)
Empty Weight: 12,080 Kg
Engine: Shinchuushuu/ P&W/ RR/ MG made FF-3011/ C Stage II thermonuclear reaction turbine engine (in space [the void of space], maximum thrust of 1,377 KN) x4
High manueverability thruster: P&W HMM-9
Maximum atmospheric speed: M 5.2+ ([at] 10,000 m, on account of the fuselage heat-resistance boundary. Possible to do M9+ for brief periods by protecting the fuselage with the pin-point barrier and energy conversion armour. It is possible to reach satellite orbit with the normal specification(s))

Base weapons: 20 mm beam gun (ROV-20) x1, choice of either (Rammington ES-25A) or 25 mm beam machine gun [cannon] (Mauler ROV-25) x2. 35 mm heavy beam machine gun [cannon] (Sentinel HBC/HS-35B) x2, BGP-01 (Greek Symbol for Beta) Beam Gun pod / Beam grenade x1, Internal-type micro-missile launcher (Bifors BML-04B) x4. The 25 mm high-speed machine gun [cannon] and micro-missile warheads are later refit with the anti-Vajra MDE warhead specification. The beam gunpod is refit to MDE particle beam specifications.

ISC: MG development IVC/GC 01 (Greek symbol for gamma)

Can cope with a super fold booster.

[Urei]

Yes, VF-25 certainly has a prototype feel to it. No wonder it has a lot of additional weapons systems. From what I can tell, each of VF-25's engines produces 2x the thrust of a single VF-19S engine. So in total it has twice the thrust Excalibur had and 2.5x the thrust of VF-22. Not to mention VF-27. I wonder if the top speed is limited like in YF-21 and what's it's value in space. Wonder how much speed a Super Fast Pack can produce


Base weapons:
-12.7 mm coaxial beam gun (Mauler ROV-217C) x1 (set in the monitor head),

-choice of either 25 mm high-speed machine gun [cannon] (Remmington ES-25A) or 25 mm beam machine gun [cannon] (Mauler ROV-25) x2,

-58 mm Gattling gun pod (Howard GU-17A).

*The 25 mm machine gun [cannon] and gun pod are later refit with the anti-Vajra MDE warhead specification.

So no internal micro-missle bays? I can't say I'm surprised. Messiah does require packs for additional firepower. We can even say that Messiah alone is naked.
I guess the lineup is not fully ready yet. As someone mentioned, there is no knife or hard points for additional missles on the wings.

Thanks for the info grss1982

EDIT. I've looked through MW Forums and I must say that I'm truly amazed at how much performance difference there is between VF-25/27 and the earlier models. Can't even compare Excalibur and Sturmvogel II to Messiah and 27.

[glyph]

Originally Posted by grss1982

sketchley a regular at MW posted some neat information about the VF-27 and the VF-25

Link: http://macrossworld.com/mwf/index.ph...c=27033&st=540



So I guess the age old question on whether or not the VF-25 has internal missles has been finally answered, I guess.

Spoiler for VF-25 vs. VF-27 by sketchley (hidden to save space):

Stats as per the article:

VF-25
Development: Shinsei Industry/ Macross Frontier Arsenal Original Development/ LAI Company technology [technological] support based it on the YF-24 Evolution [evolution from the YF-24].

Overall Length: 18.72 m (fighter configuration)
Empty Weight: 8,450 Kg
Engine: Shinsei Industry/ P&W/ RR made FF-3001A Stage II thermonuclear reaction turbine engine (in space [the void of space], maximum thrust of 1,620 KN) x2
High manueverability thruster: P&W HMM-9
Maximum atmospheric speed: M 5.0+ ([at] 10,000 m, on account of the fuselage heat-resistance boundary. It is possible to reach satellite orbit with the normal specification(s))

Base weapons: 12.7 mm coaxial beam gun (Mauler ROV-217C) x1 (set in the monitor head), choice of either 25 mm high-speed machine gun [cannon] (Remmington ES-25A) or 25 mm beam machine gun [cannon] (Mauler ROV-25) x2, 58 mm Gattling gun pod (Howard GU-17A). The 25 mm machine gun [cannon] and gun pod are later refit with the anti-Vajra MDE warhead specification.

ISC (Inertia Store Converter): Shinsei Industry Macross Frontier Asenal / LAI Company self-development specification ISC/TO21

Special: possible to equip with Super Pack or Armoured Pack
Can cope with a fold booster.


VF-27
Development: Original Development by the Macross Galaxy Variable Fighter Development Arsenal based on the YF-24 Evolution [evolution from the YF-24].

Overall Length: 18.8 m (fighter configuration)
Empty Weight: 12,080 Kg
Engine: Shinchuushuu/ P&W/ RR/ MG made FF-3011/ C Stage II thermonuclear reaction turbine engine (in space [the void of space], maximum thrust of 1,377 KN) x4
High manueverability thruster: P&W HMM-9
Maximum atmospheric speed: M 5.2+ ([at] 10,000 m, on account of the fuselage heat-resistance boundary. Possible to do M9+ for brief periods by protecting the fuselage with the pin-point barrier and energy conversion armour. It is possible to reach satellite orbit with the normal specification(s))

Base weapons: 20 mm beam gun (ROV-20) x1, choice of either (Rammington ES-25A) or 25 mm beam machine gun [cannon] (Mauler ROV-25) x2. 35 mm heavy beam machine gun [cannon] (Sentinel HBC/HS-35B) x2, BGP-01 (Greek Symbol for Beta) Beam Gun pod / Beam grenade x1, Internal-type micro-missile launcher (Bifors BML-04B) x4. The 25 mm high-speed machine gun [cannon] and micro-missile warheads are later refit with the anti-Vajra MDE warhead specification. The beam gunpod is refit to MDE particle beam specifications.

ISC: MG development IVC/GC 01 (Greek symbol for gamma)

Can cope with a super fold booster.

So Frontier Arsenal and Galaxy Arsenal are like OEMs of the YF-24 design?
Who built the YF-24 both were derived from? Or was it only ever a design blueprint?

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by glyph

So Frontier Arsenal and Galaxy Arsenal are like OEMs of the YF-24 design?
Who built the YF-24 both were derived from? Or was it only ever a design blueprint?

Shinsei Industry the makers of the VF-0, VF-1, VF-3000, VF-5000, VF-11, and VF-19.

As I predicted in my fic.

Yang had the lights turned off as holograms of three fighters are displayed.

“Gentlemen and lady may I present the next generation fighters. The YF-24 and her siblings the VF-25 and VF-27.” said Yang

“The VF-25 for Capt. Focker is equipped with Full Armor Pack that has 214 micro missile load.”

Focker whistled that is more than twice the load of missiles on an Armored Valkyrie.

“The VF-27 for Ms. Moaramia is a highspeed stealth Valkyrie with a powerful quantum beam gun pod.”

Moaramia smiled as it is colored purple.

“ and my personal pride the YF-24 has the most advanced barrier systems built on a Valkyrie . All of them based on my original patented quick transformation system. ” said Yang

The three Valkyries despite the different configurations and designations do resemble in torso parts.

“Original? It looks like you copied from the old SV-51” said Isamu

“Quiet you.” Yang responded

Likely the YF-24 is designed by Yang Neuman.

The VF-171 is likely designed by Algus Selzer.

[Forceflow]

Originally Posted by Danish78

*snip for length*

Some additional data I dredged up:

NP-BP-19 FAST Packs
The NP-BP-19 FAST packs are the newest booster designs to be developed by the UN Spacy and will probably shortly become the standard FAST pack design for all VF-11, VF-19 and VF-22 variable fighters. The NP-BP-19s are significantly larger than the previous NP-BP-12 packs but provide much greater thrust, more vernier engines, and larger missile payloads than their predecessors.

* FIRST PRODUCED: 2045
* COMPATIBLE WITH: VF-11, VF-19, VF-22
* WEAPONRY:
1. HMMM-Mk 7 MICRO-MISSILE LAUNCHERS
o PRIMARY PURPOSE: Assault/Defense
o MISSILE TYPES: Any type of Short Range Missile can be used.
o RANGE: Varies with missile type, typically 2.5 miles (4 km).
o RATE OF FIRE: Volleys of 1 to 3 missiles.
o PAYLOAD: 30 missiles.

NP-ARFB-Y2 FAST Augmentation Modules
General Galaxy also experimented with new FAST pack designs during the Project Super Nova contest of 2040. For the YF-21 the problem of FAST modules was slightly more difficult due to the fact that the arms and legs of the mecha are located inside the fuselage and under the main engines when the AVF is in fighter mode. In the end, General Galaxy designers came up with a FAST augmentation pack that was mounted on the underside of the fighter along the wings and then connected to the folded wing modules in back of the VF in battloid mode. In addition, extra armor was added to the arms of the YF-21 to assist in parrying incoming weapons fire. Like the NP-ARFB-Y1, the Y2 addes weapons, armor, and vernier jets to the YF-21 but no rocket thrusters, so there is no speed bonus from the FAST packs.

* FIRST PRODUCED: 2040
* COMPATIBLE WITH: YF-21/VF-22 only
* WEAPONRY:
1. MICRO-MISSILE LAUNCHERS
o PRIMARY PURPOSE: Assault/Defense
o MISSILE TYPES: Any type of Short Range Missile can be used.
o RANGE: Varies with missile type, typically 2.5 miles (4 km).
o RATE OF FIRE: Volleys of 1 to 6 missiles.
o PAYLOAD: 12 missiles per launcher/24 total

There is also the YF/VF-SERIES EXTERNAL HEAVY WEAPONS MODULE.

The one used by Isamu to blow a hole right through the Mac-II Monster Destroid. According to the backgroun info, the weapons module can be fitted to any existing VF. That info is up-to-date until Macross 7. Not sure if it is compatible with the 25s and 27s.

[Danish78]

@ Forceflow
Nice stat sheet. Thanks!

@grss1982
Thanks for the link!

Anybody have the stats for the VF-171? EX?
Just wanted to know how mismatched that dogfight in ep24 was?

[grss1982]

Originally Posted by glyph

So Frontier Arsenal and Galaxy Arsenal are like OEMs of the YF-24 design?
Who built the YF-24 both were derived from? Or was it only ever a design blueprint?

LOL, when I read OEM's I suddenly remembered HP computers that use ASUS motherboards.

Originally Posted by Danish78

@ Forceflow
Nice stat sheet. Thanks!

@grss1982
Thanks for the link!

Anybody have the stats for the VF-171? EX?
Just wanted to know how mismatched that dogfight in ep24 was?

Don't thank me, thank sketchley of MW those were his translations.

Anyways, yeah just like you I'm dying to see some stats for the VF-171EX, seeing that it was pwned so easily by the VF-27.

Although you have to remember that the VF-171EX is just an upgrade to the VF-171, which was probably no match for the VF-27 to begin with.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Holy Crap! Battle Galaxy!

If you blink when Alto rushes Ranka you'll miss it.