GATE - Light Novel Discussion

[aohige]

Oh btw, congrats on the series total reaching 1 million copies sold!
There should be anime offers flying right about now.

[Tri-ring]

Originally Posted by Velsy

I figured she would get turned down. I dont see how the JSDF would launch an attack on the Dragon without the proper investigation and intel gathering. Itami's squad is the only squad whos had contact with it so far.

That is not the reason she was turned down. It's basically a political reason in which her village is located in another state outside of the perimeters designated by the treaty that Japan and the Empire agreed upon JSDF can move.

[Go_Kin_Zhen]

Could anyone translate these pages? It is for the tankoubon release.

page 3
page 4

[Velsy]

Originally Posted by Tri-ring

That is not the reason she was turned down. It's basically a political reason in which her village is located in another state outside of the perimeters designated by the treaty that Japan and the Empire agreed upon JSDF can move.

They had an agreement with the empire ? I thought it was with the City Ithica?

I was kinda hoping. She get turned down, but Itami's recon squad would be assigned to investigate the dragon futher. That way Itami gets to go on another adventure too. Sounds like a game plan right?

[Breimoon]

Originally Posted by Velsy

They had an agreement with the empire ? I thought it was with the City Ithica?

I was kinda hoping. She get turned down, but Itami's recon squad would be assigned to investigate the dragon futher. That way Itami gets to go on another adventure too. Sounds like a game plan right?

no , they made an agreement with the princess of the empire

[John117xCortana]

Originally Posted by Tri-ring

Love the step by step illustration of how to hunt down a flying dragon using modern military equipment.LoL

They are saying they need F-4s to force the dragon to go below 50m then pin down the dragon with suppressive fire with artillery while attacks helicopters fire their TOW missiles and MTBs fire APFSDS and finally send in special forces to confirm kill.

They mention that it would be impossible to take down the dragon with an AAM due to it's lack of fire power since the dragon has armor of a 3rd generation MBT.

They could just load up AT rocket pods on the F-4s and ripple fire them at the dragon.

[ZeKeR]

Originally Posted by John117xCortana

They could just load up AT rocket pods on the F-4s and ripple fire them at the dragon.

OR get a couple of SPAAG's to roll in, clip the wings, get 4-8 cobras to unload their hydras.

as for the queen.... I fear the worst....

also, if the JSDF ever reach the capital city, I highly doubt the Tp-74's will have a clear line of sight or even fit. a carriage or chariot is one thing but an MBT is another.

[Breimoon]

they have just to shoot down everything xD

[aohige]

Originally Posted by John117xCortana

They could just load up AT rocket pods on the F-4s and ripple fire them at the dragon.

He address this issue right on the pages, saying the ATM may not be fast enough to accurately hit a flying target. Same goes for ASM.
And AAMs don't have enough punch to comfortably take out a creature with 3rd gen MBT level of armor.

So the dilemma would be, ATM/ASM can probably penetrate the dragon's armor, but good luck on actually hitting it, while AAM on the other hand would hit, but not enough umph.

Originally Posted by ZeKeR

OR get a couple of SPAAG's to roll in, clip the wings, get 4-8 cobras to unload their hydras.

Ehh... I believe the only SPAAG JSDF has is a type 87. Good luck taking down that dragon with that clunky thing.

The plan the JSDF soldier mapped out may seem like an overkill, but it's basically because it's planning to take out a dragon with zero possible casualties. Overkill is recommended.

[John117xCortana]

I'm not talking about missiles. I'm talking about dumb fire rockets.

And just how fast can the dragon go anyway?

Oh, and when did Bosey and Tomita become a couple?

[aohige]

yeeeaaah.... I have a feeling shooting craploads of ROCKETS that likely will mostly miss and land god-knows-where over the air of oh I dunno, foreign nation of Elbe whom they are tress passing in the first place is probably not a good idea.

The JSDF doesn't know how fast the dragon flies, so they're guessing the speed of an winged animal.
They also don't know the details of how Itami's squad landed the Panzerfaust on the dragon, and in this very chapter the soldiers (including Kengun) are wondering how Itami's 3rd scouting squad managed to actually hit the flying dragon. They didn't know it was actually on land when it happened.

[Myssa Rei]

Originally Posted by John117xCortana

Oh, and when did Bosey and Tomita become a couple?

When Bozes mentioned that "she didn't mind" Tomita while they were in Tokyo. It's the Suspension Bridge effect full force, as she LATCHED on him during the subway ride (remember, all the non-Japanese girls there were terrified of the subway ride).

[Renegade334]

Originally Posted by John117xCortana

I'm not talking about missiles. I'm talking about dumb fire rockets.

Originally Posted by ZeKeR

OR get a couple of SPAAG's to roll in, clip the wings, get 4-8 cobras to unload their hydras.

The problem would be forcing the dragon to loiter/land/stay in an area that can be sprayed with unguided (or guided, since some choppers like the AH64 Apache are now fitted with laser-guided FFARs) rockets or artillery rounds. This might require a quite substantial, continuous volume of fire...if not, the dragon might just decide to fly in a different direction and out of reach.

And just how fast can the dragon go anyway?

The speed might be subsonic, but if the dragon behaves like birds of prey it could dive bomb at near sonic/transsonic speeds. Anyway, we shouldn't assume that the dragon constantly beats its wings; like condors and other large birds, it can just loiter using high winds and altitude to preserve its strength (thus saving it for speed- and strength-intensive activities like hunting).

also, if the JSDF ever reach the capital city, I highly doubt the Tp-74's will have a clear line of sight or even fit. a carriage or chariot is one thing but an MBT is another.

Urban territory has always been the bane of armored divisions - it's a giant killbox rife with ambush and hiding points, where vehicles have little freedom of movement to evade and/or avoid heavy/unconventional weaponry. The Allies and Axis forces discovered that in WWII and the Russians got very painful reminders of it in Groznyy, where they lost a number of tanks to Chechen insurgents who figured out how to trap vehicle columns that were insufficiently protected by infantry. Oh, and guess what the infamous Molotov cocktails were originally meant for? Yep, to harass (Soviet) tanks trapped deep within urban territory and force the crews to bail out in the open where they'd be vulnerable to small arms fire.

The best option would be to raze the area of operations with artillery (MLRS "steel rain" or just massive howitzer volleys), air strikes or diffuse massive quantities of tear gas to root out defenders hiding inside buildings, then usher in the vehicles with infantry running alongside.

Originally Posted by aohige

He address this issue right on the pages, saying the ATM may not be fast enough to accurately hit a flying target.

Some antitank missiles like the American Javelin were expressly designed to also hit low-flying aircraft like helicopters, but as to whether it can outrun an enraged dragon (without getting outmaneuvered, should the said animal pull some unconventional movements like a dive bomb or a Pugachev's Cobra-like midair full brake) is unknown.

And AAMs don't have enough punch to comfortably take out a creature with 3rd gen MBT level of armor.

That'd be the case for the dragon's scale-covered body.
But what about the wings? If the AAMs (which are nowadays fitted with proximity fuses by default) detonate close enough the shrapnel cloud (coupled with a non-negligible fireball) could tear up a good part of the skin/foil and seriously compromise the animal's aerodynamic/aerobatic abilities.

But then again, how does an AAM home on to an organic target? Can an infrared seeker, which is designed to spot and lock on to reactor exhaust signatures, pick up the radiated heat of a massive, armored creature like a legendary dragon? I assume those creatures are hot-blooded, that flying full speed does increase their body temperature by an appreciable margin (and colder air from high altitude only modestly reduces the said temperature readings), but is that enough?

Likewise: can the armor scales reflect radar waves enough to provide a radar-tipped missile (with active or semi-active guidance) with a workable set of coordinates? If they have metal or silica in it, the radar cross section (RCS) could help radar-guided missiles (like the AIM120 AMRAAM, AIM7 Sparrow, AA10 Alamo or AA7 Apex) hit the dragon?

Laser-guided or optically-tracked weapons would have better luck locking onto the dragon, but that requires the launcher system to achieve/maintain direct line of sight with the target.

So the dilemma would be, ATM/ASM can probably penetrate the dragon's armor, but good luck on actually hitting it, while AAM on the other hand would hit, but not enough umph.

As I said above, the problem would be herding the dragon into a killbox (a specially-designated area of execution). ATM/ASM would be good for suppressing a dragon and keeping it on the ground, and besides, I believe those weapons boast a MUCH more potent punch than the Panzerfaust that was used to maim the legendary dragon. Don't forget the warheads are larger on ATMs/ASMs - and they're also designed to punch through a certain amount of reinforced armor before allowing themselves to detonate, in order to maximize damage.

Ehh... I believe the only SPAAG JSDF has is a type 87. Good luck taking down that dragon with that clunky thing.

If you can lure the dragon close to the SPAAGs, then these vehicles could actually hose the animal with flak...and rip the wings into confetti, thus "immobilizing" (in a manner of speaking, as it can still walk) it.

The plan the JSDF soldier mapped out may seem like an overkill, but it's basically because it's planning to take out a dragon with zero possible casualties. Overkill is recommended.

Nothing wrong with overkill, especially if you're dealing with uncharted territories. The problem, as I said, is containment; their idea for pinning down the dragon by gradually using different weapons/vehicles is nifty, but it requires flawless execution...and it would be foolish to assume the dragon would not decide to fight for its freedom and retaliate against the JSDF.

[Breimoon]

To make the killing easy, couldn't they just use some bait ( like a remotely controlled War vehicle) and then have it blow up with the dragon with shrapnel type explosion and thus destroyng its wings? Or maybe even just "poisoning" a few sheeps may do xD

[Top Sergeant]

Originally Posted by John117xCortana

I'm not talking about missiles. I'm talking about dumb fire rockets.

And just how fast can the dragon go anyway?

It may not be a matter of speed, but one of maneuverability. If the dragon can reverse its course in its own body length, then even the best air-to-air missile, let alone a rocket, would have a very difficult time hitting it.

[Myssa Rei]

The main problem here is that, without Itami's input, the JSSDF is just working on assumptions, most of them WRONG.

[Drkz]

Originally Posted by aohige

Oh btw, congrats on the series total reaching 1 million copies sold!
There should be anime offers flying right about now.

But anime adaptions have been so bad as of late...

So is the manga boosting the novel sales?

[Okashira]

Originally Posted by Drkz

So is the manga boosting the novel sales?

Adaptations usually create a "and what is the original like, then?" feeling to those interested. Also this one has 2 adaptations as of now, that's a lot of awareness raised towards 2 different type of target audience.

I'm not sure on how great current sales are for each plataform. I doubt they are bad, though.

[Hata]

Originally Posted by Renegade334

The speed might be subsonic, but if the dragon behaves like birds of prey it could dive bomb at near sonic/transsonic speeds.

the official report of the F-4J pilot is the dragon has the maneuverability of a

Spoiler:

VTOL plane.

Urban territory has always been the bane of armored divisions - it's a giant killbox rife with ambush and hiding points.

the alternative solution, as shown in novel 3, is

Spoiler:

as the hint is to take the capital in 80 hours, the first wave would not be from the 1st armor, but the 4th air cavalry, with the underground special force already planted for spotting.

The best option would be to raze the area of operations with artillery (MLRS "steel rain" or just massive howitzer volleys), air strikes or diffuse massive quantities of tear gas to root out defenders hiding inside buildings, then usher in the vehicles with infantry running alongside.

no, you are talking the "kind and gentle" JSDF, civilian casualty are not acceptable.
also the JSDF are using old equipments here, you can forget about using advance weapons for the discussion of this novel,

Some antitank missiles like the American Javelin were expressly designed to also hit low-flying aircraft like helicopters,

low flying "hovering like slow moving" aircraft like helicopter.

As I said above, the problem would be herding the dragon into a killbox (a specially-designated area of execution).

which is why the Itami Solution, if can carry out without screw up, (which of course not.) is so much better.

[ZeKeR]

@Ren the dragon charging up for a firebreath or a fireball while hovering to check for targets seems like a good window to unload missiles and ordnance if its not flying the hell away in the highest altitude. a Hummvee fitted with a launcher (I dont think the TOW actually can hit airborne targets) could provide the means to tick it off long enough for the SPAAGs to get into place and unload flak and thats already assuming it can do incredible maneuvers.

problem about that thing would be exactly how resilient its gonna be to resist a whole pod of direct firing rockets AND flak fire. if the PzF 3 HEAT could just blast off an arm, I don't see why HESH or APHE style ordnance should not work against it instead of using normal HE (why the hell did I think of the Maverick AGM actually being used to hit it?)

as for the armored division, they COULD have just asked Israel for a single Merkava because of its lulzy ability to shoot the LAHAT on the ground tho XD

@Hata well taking the capital in less than 80 hours would be a big risk in the modern world but what can archer pickets do to paratroopers? also, not sure if precision artillery fire or even air strikes that minimize collateral damage will be seen tho if there's a whole century level of troops in the streets against a platoon with HMG support.

btw IMHO, I want that SoB to be executed how Raul Menendez executes his victims: shoot the kneecaps, preferably with a shotgun blast point blank and then slowly slit his throat with a sharp pendant belonging to the queen.