Nanoha - StrikerS - Episode 20 Discussion / Poll

[Nightengale]

I'll keep my mouths shut for most part regarding the spoilers... (( thanks btw, aers ))

C'mon, prove me wrong on that person whom I thought his subplot is closed and sealed shut.

And it also finally proves that Fate is released back at 17, proving Zest's words. >_<

Speaking of court-martials... AND assuming if all of Jail's evil deeds all tie back to TSAB High Council, I would lol if they gave the same "child shouldn't be blamed" thing they gave to Fate...for Jail. I can see the Numbers getting that slack, but I would be rolling if Jail gets it too.

Anyway, TSAB will be too busy blaming dead brains or thick-headed associates to the crime (( maybe Jail too )), to go and find faults with RF6. For all its purpose, the most would be disbandment of RF6, and if they win this, there is no reason for RF6 to exist anymore either.

[Aaron008R]

Originally Posted by aers

Spoiler for 21/22/23 click at your own risk:

21話 決戦
ゆりかごに突入しなのはとヴィータ。ヴィータは最終決戦へと向かうなのはの力を温存させるため自分が前に出 て必死に戦っていた。
時を同じくしてスバルたちはナンバーズの襲撃により戦力を分断されてしまう。
結界に閉じ込められたティアナは何者かに襲われ、エリオとキャロの前にはルーテシアたちが現わ れる。
そしてスバルはギンガと再会するのだが…。

Episode 21 - Decisive Battle

Nanoha and Vita break into the Cradle. Heading towards the final decisive battle, Vita goes first to preserve Nanoha's strength, and fights desperately. At the same time, the battle strength of Subaru and others is divided by the Numbers. Tiana, confined within a barrier, is attacked, and Lutecia and her summons appear before Elio and Caro. Subaru comes face-to-face with Ginga again, but...

22話　Pain to Pain
機動六課一同が各地で苦戦する中、怪我をしたヴァイスは病院で目覚めた。
一方ルーテシアとガリュー相手に戦っていたエリオとキャロは、なぜ自分たちの敵ではないルーテシアが戦いに 加わるのかと問う。
その頃スカリエッティのアジト内でフェイトは対フェイト用にチューンされた武装を装着したトーレとセッテに 苦戦していた。
また、なのはは傷つきながらも確実にゆりかごの最深部へと近づいていた。そんな彼女の前に新たな敵が現れる 。(ニュータイプ)
なのはは負傷しながらもゆりかごの最奥へと足を踏み入れる。(アニメージュ)

Episode 22 - Pain to Pain

As the Sixth Mobile Division are fighting their various battles, the injured Vice wakes up in the hospital. Meanwhile, Elio and Caro are fighting Lutecia and Garyuu, asking why she is fighting even though she isn't their enemy. In Scaglietti's hideout, Fate has a difficult battle with Tre and Sette with their fine-tuned weapons.
Meanwhile, Nanoha draws closer to the depths of the Cradle despite her injuries, and a new opponent appears before her (Newtype)
Nanoha, ignoring her injuries, walks to to the Cradle's depths on foot. (Animedia)

23話　Stars Strike
ディエチを倒し、ついにゆりかごの最深部"玉座の間"へとたどり着いたなのは。
そこにいたのは意識をなくしたヴィヴィオとゆりかごのシステムを操るクアットロだった。
クアットロはヴィヴィオに関する真実ををなのはに伝え、来るべき最終決戦が始まったことを告げ る。

Episode 23 - Stars Strike

Having defeated Dieci, Nanoha finally reaches the Throne Room in the depths of the Cradle. There she finds an unconscious Vivio, and Quattro, who is operating the Cradle's systems. Quattro tells Nanoha the truth about Vivio, and informs her the final decisive battle they were expecting has come.

Source posted too in case someone wants to check the translation, the friend who did it for me wasn't 100% sure about everything.

I see... No mention of Signum versus Zest?
At least Vice seems to have a chance of redemption.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Aaron008R

At least Vice seems to have a chance of redemption.

Question is, will he survive it this time?

Cause it's always the injuried...

[Fabien]

Originally Posted by arkhangelsk

Her strategy is beyond reactive. She allowed her enemies to pile up to the point that they don't need new trump cards to be major threats.

OTOH, before ep 16, Regius (which is her superior) wouldn't let Hayate attack Jail.

[Aaron008R]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

I don't think they can afford to court-martial her by the end, not when everything's going to hell.

Ground center would be too mess up...

There's no way that this'll end up like the original Gundam. RF6 would most likely get a hero's welcome and wallow in internal angst later.

NOOOO!!!! There must be Reinforce-class drama and angst!

And the Sacrificial lamb would be...!

First, it was a psychotic old woman. Second, a relatively still young-looking female program... They get younger and younger by the season, ne, Chaos?

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Question is, will he survive it this time?

Cause it's always the injuried...

Nah... Unless the song 'Pray' plays by the fall of the Mahou Sniper Traumatized Vice... But I say he's got as much chance to survive as Zafira. Which is close to 90% because of unintentional shaft armor...

[arkhangelsk]

Originally Posted by Nightengale

Anyway, TSAB will be too busy blaming dead brains or thick-headed associates to the crime (( maybe Jail too )), to go and find faults with RF6. For all its purpose, the most would be disbandment of RF6, and if they win this, there is no reason for RF6 to exist anymore either.

Knowing for sure that Hayate's court martial will not be the ending:

If TSAB was a realistic organization, I bet they won't even let the public know that they've basically been ruled by Melchior, Balthasar and Caspar for decades. And Blaming other generals will only further erode the badly damaged credibility. Under such circumstances, a scapegoat is needed, fast.

And Hayate is the perfect target. She's a middle-rank officer who is the commander of a unit that's meant to prevent our current crisis from happening. Obviously, that part failed miserably.

Either by process or by result, there's enough against her it will be impossible for her sponsors to seriously defend her. In fact, if they put too much of a fight, they might be held responsible for pushing "such a young, inexperienced officer" into command "of a post with such critical importance" and come away badly damaged themselves. Of course, at this point, no one will remember that they themselves doubted the prophecy...

Without real personal power or rank, there will be no way for her to fight off the attack with personal clout. Further, Hayate has this overripe guilt complex and probably won't even put up too much of a fight - the Book of Darkness incident isn't really her fault at all, yet she still holds that guilt with her everywhere she goes...

Realistically, the court martial is the logical result. Of course, the real tragedy is that realistically, Hayate should have been experienced enough that she shouldn't have allowed things to deteriorate to this point! Poor Hayate, already shafted as a character, shafted as a commander as well just to advance a plot point. The only consolation is that Seven Arcs won't dare write out this ending. Cry, Hayate fans, cry...

Originally Posted by Fabien

OTOH, before ep 16, Regius (which is her superior) wouldn't let Hayate attack Jail.

1) Source? I definitely don't remember anything like this.
2) Considering she did not have Scarlietti's location at the time, this point is moot.
3) She could still have been more proactive in capturing Lutecia, Zest and the Numbers when they showed up.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Are Lt Colonels considered middle ranked ?

Originally Posted by Aaron008R

First, it was a psychotic old woman. Second, a relatively still young-looking female program... They get younger and younger by the season, ne, Chaos?

PURE coincidence

Originally Posted by Aaron008R

Nah... Unless the song 'Pray' plays by the fall of the Mahou Sniper Traumatized Vice... But I say he's got as much chance to survive as Zafira. Which is close to 90% because of unintentional shaft armor...

If that's the case... Then I know how he can earn cool points...

Though they have to rip off Silentscope by having him shoot a bind that's attached to both Teana and a crazed dying Number. Of which the latter is draging the former down by hanging over a building...

[Aaron008R]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

If that's the case... Then I know how he can earn cool points...

Though they have to rip off Silentscope by having him shoot a bind that's attached to both Teana and a crazed dying Number. Of which the latter is draging the former down by hanging over a building...

Or maybe give a headshot to a Number who's holding Caro hostage to get over his trauma...

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Aaron008R

Or maybe give a headshot to a Number who's holding Caro hostage to get over his trauma...

No no, that would be stepping over Erio's turf...

Cool guys don't do that ()

[Aaron008R]

Oh well. Headshot the Bombardier Otto?
He's with Lutecia and GuyverGaryuu.

[Fabien]

Originally Posted by arkhangelsk

1) Source? I definitely don't remember anything like this.

If I understood this thread properly, Regius was helping Jail at "Naked Brains"' request. So, how could he allow his subordinates to attack him directly?

[Aaron008R]

And those brains were planing to have Regius assassinated, right? But he's still alive... Maybe that could provide some further details later.

[arkhangelsk]

He can't very well say outright "No one is to capture Scarlietti." Not that Hayate will even ask Reggie if she has his location. She might talk briefly to Carim, and that's about it.

But recent events do make it clear why no one ever assists RF6. Regius probably told them to "mind their own sectors". Still, he can't outright ban people arresting Scarlietti without looking too wierd.

[FRS]

Originally Posted by arkhangelsk

Without real personal power or rank, there will be no way for her to fight off the attack with personal clout. Further, Hayate has this overripe guilt complex and probably won't even put up too much of a fight - the Book of Darkness incident isn't really her fault at all, yet she still holds that guilt with her everywhere she goes...

As pointed by Auris RF6 was created in a sort that its leader could serve as a political "fuse" as needed (at least that's how i understood her exchange with Regius), so your scenario may happend and Hayate may be looking forward due to some martyr complex.

Realistically, the court martial is the logical result. Of course, the real tragedy is that realistically, Hayate should have been experienced enough that she shouldn't have allowed things to deteriorate to this point! Poor Hayate, already shafted as a character, shafted as a commander as well just to advance a plot point. The only consolation is that Seven Arcs won't dare write out this ending. Cry, Hayate fans, cry...

I know that it was already debated but i cant still really understand her decision of keeping the heavy hitters (Nanoha, Fate and Signum) inside weaponless rather that out patrolling the perimeter, i suppose plot necessity trump everything.

[Fabien]

Originally Posted by arkhangelsk

And Hayate is the perfect target. She's a middle-rank officer who is the commander of a unit that's meant to prevent our current crisis from happening. Obviously, that part failed miserably.

Very few people knew that, they're all Hayate's supporter, and if anything, they don't want anyone else to know that their plan was a failure.

Officially, Section 6 was just an "experimental squad, allowed to operate for a limited time" (ep 13). So, if it doesn't do much good, the unit is tagged as a "failed experiment", and that's that.

[Fabien]

Originally Posted by arkhangelsk

I know this view would be controversial, but I'm almost begging for Ep26 to be her court martial.

Hey, I know!
Hayate is the King from the prophecy -- the Wolkenritters' Master.

Seeing her court-martialed doesn't go well with her Knights, who decide to wreak havoc and destroy completely the TSAB. Hence the prophecy is fulfilled.

How's that?

[arkhangelsk]

Originally Posted by Fabien

Very few people knew that, they're all Hayate's supporter, and if anything, they don't want anyone else to know that their plan was a failure.

Officially, Section 6 was just an "experimental squad, allowed to operate for a limited time" (ep 13). So, if it doesn't do much good, the unit is tagged as a "failed experiment", and that's that.

This structure will allow her bosses to safely isolate themselves should they choose to.

But it won't save Hayate from much. Experimental or not, her unit has been granted an enormous amount of rare and precious combat power. Even with the limiters on, the overall combat coefficient of the unit will be no lower than Sections 1-5, and the whole world will remember that Hayate could freely release the limiters on Nanoha and Fate, and thus the real combat coefficient of the unit is much higher.

Despite this, what had happened. Loss of HQ. 50% casualties. Partial responsibility for failure to protect HQ (RF6 probably had a combat coefficient worth the rest of that useless defense force), and I'm sure a good prosecutor can upgrade it to "primary" in the eyes of even a fair minded judge and jury, never mind an angry and frightened crowd looking for someone to blame so they can hang on to tranquility. The Relics they are chasing after and someone they were protecting being used in combination to activate ancient Lost Logia weapon by scientist they were also chasing after. Any one of these is potential court-martial material, and two or more together will be beyond protection, the more so due to the enormous amount of resources it had been granted.

Originally Posted by Fabien

Hey, I know!
Hayate is the King from the prophecy -- the Wolkenritters' Master.

Seeing her court-martialed doesn't go well with her Knights, who decide to wreak havoc and destroy completely the TSAB. Hence the prophecy is fulfilled.

How's that?

Here's where Hayate's guilt complex will save the TSAB... poor, poor Hayate. Fortunately, none of all this will happen.

[Chaos2Frozen]

@arkhangelsk

It's not going to happen.

Because even if Hayate just rolls over, there are people that won't.

Take Acous for an example, if anybody tries to pin this on her, he's going to come over with all of their dirty little secrets.

And not to mention the Church, Carim is an important figure in the TSAB. The two Haralown Admirals, they definately have enough influence. The three lengendary Admirals...

Nobody's hanging her out to dry.

[Nightengale]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

@arkhangelsk

It's not going to happen.

Because even if Hyate just rolls over, there are people that won't.

Take Acous for an example, if anybody tries to pin this on her, he's going to come over with all of their dirty little secrets.

And not to mention the Church, Carim is an important figure in the TSAB. The two Haralown Admirals, they definately have enough influence. The three lengendary Admirals...

Nobody's hanging her out to dry.

Not to mention Jail's already killed those "higher than her supporters" who are more than willing to hang her dry, if necessary.

But whatever, Hayate getting a relative-not-so-good end is almost out of the question, even if it's the rational outlook of the situation.

[arkhangelsk]

Originally Posted by Nightengale

Not to mention Jail's already killed those "higher than her supporters" who are more than willing to hang her dry, if necessary.

He killed the three brains and Regius is incapacitated, but that still leaves the remaining TSAB senior staff who will be desperate to stick this mess onto as few people as low on the ladder as possible so as to minimize the disastrous loss of prestige in this incident - if the TSAB goes down, they go down too. Those will be the trail people.

But whatever, Hayate getting a relative-not-so-good end is almost out of the question, even if it's the rational outlook of the situation.

Never disagreed with this.

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

@arkhangelsk

It's not going to happen.

Because even if Hayate just rolls over, there are people that won't.

Take Acous for an example, if anybody tries to pin this on her, he's going to come over with all of their dirty little secrets.

First problem, the 3 brains are all dead and Regius will soon receive justice. Thus, he can't threaten to blab their little secrets. If you believe that the TSAB is a relatively clean organization, it'd be hard for Acous to come up with something quick. And doing so will be blackmail more than anything.

And not to mention the Church, Carim is an important figure in the TSAB. The two Haralown Admirals, they definately have enough influence. The three lengendary Admirals...

Nobody's hanging her out to dry.

The three admirals are respected, but are not in command authority anymore.

Lindy and Carim are powerful in the TSAB, being near the top, but this case is too clear cut. They won't be able to come up with a good enough reason to stop the proceedings. I mean, "OK, Lindy and Carim, you two want to stop the court martial of a commander who, despite having powerful attachments (Nanoha and Fate) that increased the unit's combat coefficient to about 10 times that of units of comparable stature, lost her HQ, lost 50% of combat power in 20 minutes, failed to protect a very valuable person in their protection, which led directly to the near destruction of our world and our organization ... don't you think any one of these circumstances, even in the singular, might warrant a most thorough investigation and the most appropriate judgment dispensed?"

"Or would that be because she's your son's friend? That would certainly explain why you chose to place an experimental unit not in the hands of a veteran leader, but this first-command-opportunity, 19-year-old Yagami Hayate... We all know about your nepostic ways, Lindy, but this is just going too far..."