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dreamless · 2004-12-19, 10:44

well, Shin needs some major spotlight, if he's still intended as the main protagonist that is. Even his CV, Suzumura Kenichi, says that currently he feels somewhat lucky that at least he can see Shin in the OP

And he seems to envy the Athrun character a lot too, he says he'd be happy to see the "red MS" goes KABOOM

Rei_Ikari · 2004-12-19, 11:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamless

well, Shin needs some major spotlight, if he's still intended as the main protagonist that is. Even his CV, Suzumura Kenichi, says that currently he feels somewhat lucky that at least he can see Shin in the OP

And he seems to envy the Athrun character a lot too, he says he'd be happy to see the "red MS" goes KABOOM

At first i was expecting to get some major focus on Shinn which would show a "likeable" side which could convince me that he is the main char......but so far.....

And as for the

Quote:

And he seems to envy the Athrun character a lot too, he says he'd be happy to see the "red MS" goes KABOOM

i seriously hope u mean his seiyuu and not shinn....cause if thats Shinn hoping to seed Athrun die i'm going to start a "Kira pls kill Shinn ASAP" club......that Athrun guy saved your ship in ep 3 or 4 and u want him to die???

dreamless · 2004-12-19, 11:35

Oh of course it's the CV, Suzumura Kenichi, not the character Shin, who says the "red MS" should go KABOOM

But now it seems even the CV himself has given up hope and is content to see Shin appearing only in the OP

Demon-Hunter · 2004-12-19, 12:22

Weren't Athrun and SHinn supposed to be CO-protagonists?

i think they were, or at least thats what i read. So i guess u Shinn fanbois will have to share ur glory with Athrun in the long run. Now add in Kira in there and Shinn looks like a nobody.

Shift_ · 2004-12-19, 12:25

I dunno, I kind of like Kira better than Athrun, Just because Kira seems more 'in touch with reality' then Athrun, Athrun is hot headed (which I can see being popular with the way society is today) but seriously, I feel like beating his punk ass down.

Like seriously Kira and Athrun seem like opposites.

Although I have a feeling Kira will make a significant comeback, but like I said, this will probally be following the sequences ala Gundam Seed style.

Gundam seed was Focused alot on Kira at the start, but near the middle/end he started to share the spotlight with other characters who have become more than 'supporting' characters.

So This time It's athrun taking this lead, then kira will have his time

Seriously though, if I had my way, I'd have some crazy alien force come and try to destroy both plant AND earth, so they would have no choice but to FINALLY work together to solve a larger problem. Eneimies will come together when faced with a great crisis, and during that time of working together they usually become understanding of eachother/become friends

ma2ha3 · 2004-12-19, 12:38

Seriously though, if I had my way, I'd have some crazy alien force come and try to destroy both plant AND earth, so they would have no choice but to FINALLY work together to solve a larger problem. Eneimies will come together when faced with a great crisis, and during that time of working together they usually become understanding of eachother/become friend

yes this is a radical idea. most interesting.

Raxtenko · 2004-12-19, 12:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rei_Ikari

At first i was expecting to get some major focus on Shinn which would show a "likeable" side which could convince me that he is the main char......but so far.....

How about this? Shinn stayed at Junius 7 vti help Athrun, despite the fact that he didn't have to. H esaved Athrun's life there too. And when they were plummeting towards the Earth, the first thing Shinn did after stabilizing the Impulse, was look for Athrun. He didn't have to save him, Shinn could've just descended to the Earth, and he would have made it fine, but he deliberately tried to saved Athrun's Zaku, thereby dooming himself to death, if the Minerva hadn't come. But he extended the possibilty of Athrun surviving.

So yeah, Shinn looking out for his buds.

dreamless · 2004-12-19, 12:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demon-Hunter

Weren't Athrun and SHinn supposed to be CO-protagonists?

i think they were, or at least thats what i read. So i guess u Shinn fanbois will have to share ur glory with Athrun in the long run. Now add in Kira in there and Shinn looks like a nobody.

yup, I heard that both Athrun and Shin are the main protagonist of SEED Destiny, but the problem now is that Shin has about as much screen time as a passer-by, and currently it's more like a personal show for Athrun and Gilbert

Neaco · 2004-12-19, 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by ma2ha3

Seriously though, if I had my way, I'd have some crazy alien force come and try to destroy both plant AND earth, so they would have no choice but to FINALLY work together to solve a larger problem. Eneimies will come together when faced with a great crisis, and during that time of working together they usually become understanding of eachother/become friend

yes this is a radical idea. most interesting.

This looks like a job for, the legendary Gundam SEED...... SPACE WHALES! But maybe they are smart enough just to sit back and watch everyone kill each other.

A side note, I got bored and rewatched the ORB chapter of SEED 1 again (eps 36-41). The EA demanding ORB's joining of the Alliance really mirrors the situation they face now in Destiny. I guess this time they have no choice but to join.

ma2ha3 · 2004-12-19, 15:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neaco

This looks like a job for, the legendary Gundam SEED...... SPACE WHALES! But maybe they are smart enough just to sit back and watch everyone kill each other.

A side note, I got bored and rewatched the ORB chapter of SEED 1 again (eps 36-41). The EA demanding ORB's joining of the Alliance really mirrors the situation they face now in Destiny. I guess this time they have no choice but to join.

i think the people working in orb will help them get out using another way and they will fight and escape EA force in the high sea. This is the encounter where stellar will meet Shinn.

Scherazade · 2004-12-19, 15:16

According to a member over at gundamwatch.com both Gilbert and Mia Campbell confessed to Athrun about the whole Lacus thing. Gilbert says that Lacus has more influence over the people than he ever will as Chairman. Mia's speech to the people was to not give in to hatred and to continue with the peace. So Gilberts intentions so far seem on the up and up. When he takes Athrun to Saviour he gives it to Athrun with no conditions. He basically tells Athrun to use that suit however he wants to.

On a sidenote, I think ilbert is not getting the respect he deserves. So far he has been a very likable character and has not shown any hint of being underhanded. While that says little for the future of the character as it stands now there isn't much evidence that there is an evil intent behind his actions other than his character design. Before anyone says that Patrick seemed like a nice guy at first....not so much. Even though he wasn't advocating genocide at the beginning, he was still a know radical and known to want to escalate the war. You have to keep things like wanting to kill every single natural behind closed doors when you're running for office.

dreamless · 2004-12-19, 15:35

Yup, both Gilbert and Mia seem to be totally sincere to Athrun, they don't seem to hide anything from him. Gilbert said that he trusted Athrun to never deviate from the right path, so he basically gave Athrun the Saviour Gundam to become an independent faction and do whatever he wants, and hope Athrun can help correct PLANT if it ever slips towards the wrong path, even using force if necessary.

I'm really surprised by Lacus' influence over PLANT people, it seems not only we worship her as a Goddess, those PLANT citizen also worship her as a Goddess, she has more power and influece over PLANT people than the high council! The angry demonstrators are instantly easily calmed down with a few words from Lacus. This makes me wonder even more why the real Lacus didn't stay in PLANT, so she really abandoned all those PLANT people who soooo needed her presence just for Kira?

ma2ha3 · 2004-12-19, 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scherazade

According to a member over at gundamwatch.com both Gilbert and Mia Campbell confessed to Athrun about the whole Lacus thing. Gilbert says that Lacus has more influence over the people than he ever will as Chairman. Mia's speech to the people was to not give in to hatred and to continue with the peace. So Gilberts intentions so far seem on the up and up. When he takes Athrun to Saviour he gives it to Athrun with no conditions. He basically tells Athrun to use that suit however he wants to.

On a sidenote, I think ilbert is not getting the respect he deserves. So far he has been a very likable character and has not shown any hint of being underhanded. While that says little for the future of the character as it stands now there isn't much evidence that there is an evil intent behind his actions other than his character design. Before anyone says that Patrick seemed like a nice guy at first....not so much. Even though he wasn't advocating genocide at the beginning, he was still a know radical and known to want to escalate the war. You have to keep things like wanting to kill every single natural behind closed doors when you're running for office.

there is no way anyone giving a gundam away like that.
no way, it is like USA bush, giving away an aircraft carrier to michael moore and let him to be independant force.
what rubbish. only the japs can think of something so ludicrous . A total dog dinner.
Lacus steal freedom, gilbert give it away, for what?

Kale · 2004-12-19, 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by ma2ha3

there is no way anyone giving a gundam away like that.
no way, it is like USA bush, giving away an aircraft carrier to michael moore and let him to be independant force.

Comparing the situation between Gilbert giving Athrun Saviour to Bush giving Michael Moore an aircraft carrier is ridiculous. Both Gilbert and Athrun empathize with the coordinators and PLANT as they are themselves coordinators.
Bush and Michael Moore have no such similarities. One is considered a right wing fundamentalist while the other is considered a left wing radical.

I'm not even going to reply to the rest of your post. I shouldn't have even bothered with giving this the time of day.

Dark Crusader · 2004-12-19, 16:58

The reason Shinn is on the back burner because Athurn like it or not is far more politically important then Shinn, Kira and even Gilbert. Only Lacus probably rivials him in popularity although she gets loyalty from the Plant Civilians while he gets it from the ZAFT Forces. This second arc is to set up Athurn as a political power.

If I'm right Orb will either be invaded by EA again or a Coup will occur. The Minvera will aid the forces loyal to Cagalli because Orb is an ally (neutral) of Plant. And of course Kira and the Archangel game will lend a hand. Which will lead to Shinn confronting Kira most likely after the battle for Orb.

Yes GSD resembles GS a lot however I liked the opening for GSD better then the start of GS. It made more since to me. People trying to retreve what was stolen from them makes a hell of a lot more since then the thevies stealing the suit and then continuing to chase after and trying to steal the last unit. Why because the whole point of steal/destroying them was to gain the knowledge and technology of them enemy so you can use it and then knocking them back a few pages by destroying the research and stuff you can't steal.

Yes this happened in GS but La Crusae never delivered the data or the suits to Plant until after his ship had been badly damaged and he had been ordered back by the supreme council. What if his unit had been killed and EA had recovered the units. Then the whole raid would've been a waste. Not only would've ZAFT lost the tec edge but also one of their best Units. Now in GSD Neo even said if they stayed and continued to fight and try to take the impulse he could loose everything he already had so he heads back to earth.

As for giving Athurn the Savior it reeks of Gundam Wing. But it also adds to Athurns political prestige.

brightman · 2004-12-19, 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Crusader

If I'm right Orb will either be invaded by EA again or a Coup will occur. The Minvera will aid the forces loyal to Cagalli because Orb is an ally (neutral) of Plant. And of course Kira and the Archangel game will lend a hand. Which will lead to Shinn confronting Kira most likely after the battle for Orb.

Spoiler:

jhcl · 2004-12-19, 19:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamless

I'm really surprised by Lacus' influence over PLANT people, it seems not only we worship her as a Goddess, those PLANT citizen also worship her as a Goddess, she has more power and influece over PLANT people than the high council! The angry demonstrators are instantly easily calmed down with a few words from Lacus. This makes me wonder even more why the real Lacus didn't stay in PLANT, so she really abandoned all those PLANT people who soooo needed her presence just for Kira?

I dont see anything wrong with it. She has already served her ppl more than enough. Give her a chance to act like a teenage girl.... that is run away from home and live in a defacto relationship with another 18yr old guy.

But seriously after the war ended there was no reason for lacus to stay in plant. She only wanted to stop the war... once that happened she didnt have a reason to remain.

Also i heard that when freedom appears shinn challenges him and its shinn that gets wasted/slaughtered/pwned by Kira.

As for popularity polls, you can understand that Athrun is more popular considering he has had such a larger screen time in Destiny and was also a main towards the end of SEED...if Kira was given the same amount of time im sure he would be just as popular.
The fact that he is still no2 shows something...

brightman · 2004-12-19, 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhcl

As for popularity polls, you can understand that Athrun is more popular considering he has had such a larger screen time in Destiny and was also a main towards the end of SEED...if Kira was given the same amount of time im sure he would be just as popular.
The fact that he is still no2 shows something...

So? Screentime does not mean popularity at all. Otherwise Cagalli would be on top too, since she almost dominates the first ten episodes female characters-wise. But Lacus who appears less than Kira is still more popular than her according to polls. Heck even Stellar is beating her in some of them.

pyu · 2004-12-19, 19:45

I can understand why Lacus left the PLANTs after the war. Her father had been killed, she was labelled a traitor and well, had basically lost everything that was of value to her. It might sound like a cliche, but she, like Kira, basically wanted to live in peace and not be disturbed again.

I am surprised that she still wields so much influence with the citizens of the PLANTs though. I wonder if she was able to catch Mia's broadcast online. How would she be feeling now?

Anyway, Gilbert might sound sincere enough, but don't you think he is awfully well prepared for almost all scenarios? He might be a moderate like Siegel Clyne was , but isn't it quite scary that he has already prepped a Lacus-lookalike in Mia to unleash on the populace and has another top-secret Mobile Suit secreted away from prying eyes. Besides, I am sure he knows where Lacus really is (Reverend Malchio is hardly a low profile person in terms of influence and resources) and how to get into contact with her. I bet Gilbert didn't contact her simply because she can't be controlled like Mia can be.

So, Gilbert might not be evil, but he's still too suspicious to be totally trusted... (It's that evil smirk of his and sounding too much like Char that does it for me...)

And it looks like that Orb Prime Minister (Unata Seiran?) and his son are the obvious bad guys in this one. Look at the evil smirks they have. (Poor Cagalli)

jhcl · 2004-12-19, 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by brightman

So? Screentime does not mean popularity at all. Otherwise Cagalli would be on top too, since she almost dominates the first ten episodes female characters-wise. But Lacus who appears less than Kira is still more popular than her according to polls. Heck even Stellar is beating her in some of them.

Screentime doesnt not directly mean popularity but you need screentime if you are going to improve their popularity. You said so yourself that Athrun has been beating Kira in just about every poll SINCE destiny started.
Even if before it was pretty much even you cant deny that screentime isnt the factor that is affecting the polls now.

So i stand by my statement that given just as much screentime as Athrun, Kira would probably just as popular.

Cagalli has had the most screentime out of the ladies but she does nothing but whinge whinge... they arent really making her anymore popular by doing that.

2004-12-19, 12:38	Link #86
ma2ha3 Member Join Date: Dec 2004	gundam series never have aliens Seriously though, if I had my way, I'd have some crazy alien force come and try to destroy both plant AND earth, so they would have no choice but to FINALLY work together to solve a larger problem. Eneimies will come together when faced with a great crisis, and during that time of working together they usually become understanding of eachother/become friend yes this is a radical idea. most interesting.

2004-12-19, 10:44	Link #81
dreamless /Ultimate Magic Attack!!! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Time Warp/Future	well, Shin needs some major spotlight, if he's still intended as the main protagonist that is. Even his CV, Suzumura Kenichi, says that currently he feels somewhat lucky that at least he can see Shin in the OP And he seems to envy the Athrun character a lot too, he says he'd be happy to see the "red MS" goes KABOOM

2004-12-19, 11:35	Link #83
dreamless /Ultimate Magic Attack!!! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Time Warp/Future	Oh of course it's the CV, Suzumura Kenichi, not the character Shin, who says the "red MS" should go KABOOM But now it seems even the CV himself has given up hope and is content to see Shin appearing only in the OP

2004-12-19, 12:22	Link #84
Demon-Hunter Member Join Date: Nov 2004	Weren't Athrun and SHinn supposed to be CO-protagonists? i think they were, or at least thats what i read. So i guess u Shinn fanbois will have to share ur glory with Athrun in the long run. Now add in Kira in there and Shinn looks like a nobody.

2004-12-19, 12:25	Link #85
Shift_ Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Down Under	I dunno, I kind of like Kira better than Athrun, Just because Kira seems more 'in touch with reality' then Athrun, Athrun is hot headed (which I can see being popular with the way society is today) but seriously, I feel like beating his punk ass down. Like seriously Kira and Athrun seem like opposites. Although I have a feeling Kira will make a significant comeback, but like I said, this will probally be following the sequences ala Gundam Seed style. Gundam seed was Focused alot on Kira at the start, but near the middle/end he started to share the spotlight with other characters who have become more than 'supporting' characters. So This time It's athrun taking this lead, then kira will have his time Seriously though, if I had my way, I'd have some crazy alien force come and try to destroy both plant AND earth, so they would have no choice but to FINALLY work together to solve a larger problem. Eneimies will come together when faced with a great crisis, and during that time of working together they usually become understanding of eachother/become friends

2004-12-19, 15:16	Link #91
Scherazade Asturian Guymelef Join Date: Nov 2004	According to a member over at gundamwatch.com both Gilbert and Mia Campbell confessed to Athrun about the whole Lacus thing. Gilbert says that Lacus has more influence over the people than he ever will as Chairman. Mia's speech to the people was to not give in to hatred and to continue with the peace. So Gilberts intentions so far seem on the up and up. When he takes Athrun to Saviour he gives it to Athrun with no conditions. He basically tells Athrun to use that suit however he wants to. On a sidenote, I think ilbert is not getting the respect he deserves. So far he has been a very likable character and has not shown any hint of being underhanded. While that says little for the future of the character as it stands now there isn't much evidence that there is an evil intent behind his actions other than his character design. Before anyone says that Patrick seemed like a nice guy at first....not so much. Even though he wasn't advocating genocide at the beginning, he was still a know radical and known to want to escalate the war. You have to keep things like wanting to kill every single natural behind closed doors when you're running for office.

2004-12-19, 15:35	Link #92
dreamless /Ultimate Magic Attack!!! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Time Warp/Future	Yup, both Gilbert and Mia seem to be totally sincere to Athrun, they don't seem to hide anything from him. Gilbert said that he trusted Athrun to never deviate from the right path, so he basically gave Athrun the Saviour Gundam to become an independent faction and do whatever he wants, and hope Athrun can help correct PLANT if it ever slips towards the wrong path, even using force if necessary. I'm really surprised by Lacus' influence over PLANT people, it seems not only we worship her as a Goddess, those PLANT citizen also worship her as a Goddess, she has more power and influece over PLANT people than the high council! The angry demonstrators are instantly easily calmed down with a few words from Lacus. This makes me wonder even more why the real Lacus didn't stay in PLANT, so she really abandoned all those PLANT people who soooo needed her presence just for Kira?

2004-12-19, 16:58	Link #95
Dark Crusader Member Join Date: Dec 2004	The reason Shinn is on the back burner because Athurn like it or not is far more politically important then Shinn, Kira and even Gilbert. Only Lacus probably rivials him in popularity although she gets loyalty from the Plant Civilians while he gets it from the ZAFT Forces. This second arc is to set up Athurn as a political power. If I'm right Orb will either be invaded by EA again or a Coup will occur. The Minvera will aid the forces loyal to Cagalli because Orb is an ally (neutral) of Plant. And of course Kira and the Archangel game will lend a hand. Which will lead to Shinn confronting Kira most likely after the battle for Orb. Yes GSD resembles GS a lot however I liked the opening for GSD better then the start of GS. It made more since to me. People trying to retreve what was stolen from them makes a hell of a lot more since then the thevies stealing the suit and then continuing to chase after and trying to steal the last unit. Why because the whole point of steal/destroying them was to gain the knowledge and technology of them enemy so you can use it and then knocking them back a few pages by destroying the research and stuff you can't steal. Yes this happened in GS but La Crusae never delivered the data or the suits to Plant until after his ship had been badly damaged and he had been ordered back by the supreme council. What if his unit had been killed and EA had recovered the units. Then the whole raid would've been a waste. Not only would've ZAFT lost the tec edge but also one of their best Units. Now in GSD Neo even said if they stayed and continued to fight and try to take the impulse he could loose everything he already had so he heads back to earth. As for giving Athurn the Savior it reeks of Gundam Wing. But it also adds to Athurns political prestige.

2004-12-19, 19:45	Link #99
pyu Crouchety Old Man Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Singapore	I can understand why Lacus left the PLANTs after the war. Her father had been killed, she was labelled a traitor and well, had basically lost everything that was of value to her. It might sound like a cliche, but she, like Kira, basically wanted to live in peace and not be disturbed again. I am surprised that she still wields so much influence with the citizens of the PLANTs though. I wonder if she was able to catch Mia's broadcast online. How would she be feeling now? Anyway, Gilbert might sound sincere enough, but don't you think he is awfully well prepared for almost all scenarios? He might be a moderate like Siegel Clyne was , but isn't it quite scary that he has already prepped a Lacus-lookalike in Mia to unleash on the populace and has another top-secret Mobile Suit secreted away from prying eyes. Besides, I am sure he knows where Lacus really is (Reverend Malchio is hardly a low profile person in terms of influence and resources) and how to get into contact with her. I bet Gilbert didn't contact her simply because she can't be controlled like Mia can be. So, Gilbert might not be evil, but he's still too suspicious to be totally trusted... (It's that evil smirk of his and sounding too much like Char that does it for me...) And it looks like that Orb Prime Minister (Unata Seiran?) and his son are the obvious bad guys in this one. Look at the evil smirks they have. (Poor Cagalli)