(CR) Saint Seiya Omega

[houkoholic]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Spoiler:

The bronze saints will take part in a tournament to decide who will be promoted to silver Saint. Details are unclear. There could be several possibilities:

- There is a silver cloth to win, mirroring the Galaxian War in the first series.
- The winner's cloth gets upgraded to silver
- Silver is merely a rank given to the strongest bronze saint(s)

First option is the least likely since it shouldn't be possible for a Saint to "switch" constellation. They've got a zodiacal constellation and a protective constellation and that's it.

Spoiler:

The saint ranking is something that always bothers me and something Kurumada really screwed up in IMO. While everyone can theoretically become a gold saint because everyone is born under one of the 12 gold rank constellation from their birthday and hence "ranking up" to a gold saint poses no problem, the bronze and silver ones are not so clear. So how do they determine who is born under which bronze zodiac sign, and how does one become a silver saint? Do they immediately become silver ie from no rank to silver, or is it that everyone is born under 3 constellations (a bronze, a silver and obviously the gold)?

[Key Board]

I had the impression that in the original SS, things were set in caste

if you are a bronze, that you are a bronze for all your life

and some of the gold saints were truly monsters that attained 7th sense when they were only 6 years old

IIRC, the cloth isn't really THAT important. What matters more is the mastery of cosmo use, which is why some bronze saints can put up a fight against gold saints.

But if I were to guess about powerup in Omega, it's probably similar to how Athena's blood turned those bronze cloth into uber god cloth versions

[houkoholic]

Originally Posted by Key Board

I had the impression that in the original SS, things were set in caste

if you are a bronze, that you are a bronze for all your life

and some of the gold saints were truly monsters that attained 7th sense when they were only 6 years old

IIRC, the cloth isn't really THAT important. What matters more is the mastery of cosmo use, which is why some bronze saints can put up a fight against gold saints.

But if I were to guess about powerup in Omega, it's probably similar to how Athena's blood turned those bronze cloth into uber god cloth versions

No, it's definitely possible for one to be promoted from bronze to gold, it's obvious from the way Kurumada had carefully mapped the 5 bronze's birthday to their respective gold constellation - Seiya as a Sagittarius, Shiryu as Libra, Hyoga as Aquarius, Shun as Virgo and Ikki as Leo (ok Ikki's mapping is really odd) that he had at least considered this as a possibility to be used in the story at some point. Also in Next Dimension Kurumada had shown that both Dohko and Shion were promoted from bronze to their respective gold.

The question lies with how one becomes silver, I guess it might actually be possible for someone really strong to skip becoming bronze and go straight to silver, and then again according to their birth dates they can then be promoted to the respective gold constellation if the position is vacant (or perhaps you can even fight for it? it's not like ancient greek culture don't promote duelling either). But whether a bronze can go silver is a big question mark.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by houkoholic

Spoiler:

The saint ranking is something that always bothers me and something Kurumada really screwed up in IMO. While everyone can theoretically become a gold saint because everyone is born under one of the 12 gold rank constellation from their birthday and hence "ranking up" to a gold saint poses no problem, the bronze and silver ones are not so clear. So how do they determine who is born under which bronze zodiac sign, and how does one become a silver saint? Do they immediately become silver ie from no rank to silver, or is it that everyone is born under 3 constellations (a bronze, a silver and obviously the gold)?

I thought that your theory about three constellations per-person was neat, Houko. Still, in the first series, wasn’t our 10 bronze saints fought each other for the Sagitarius Gold Cloth? They can’t be all under Sagitarius. So, if the wearer of the cloth is predetermined by their constellation like that, there’s no point for those bronze saints to fight each other, right? They can just pick which one of them are born under Sagitarius and if there’s more than one, they can fight it out (which didn’t happen in the original SS).

I always think that the process of how a saint obtain their cloths is a random thing. A prodigy saint can directly obtain a gold cloth like Virgo Shaka. Seiya became Sagitarius after being Pegasus without ranking-up to Silver first. Shaina directly become Ophiucus (Silver) after her early training. So yeah, I don’t think Kurumada thought much about it. He just wrote it as it is which kinda piss me off.

Do you know why we rarely meet a bronze saint who got promoted to silver? That's coz silver sucks (so far) . Those silvers are even more lame in Lost Canvas.

[houkoholic]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

I thought that your theory about three constellations per-person was neat, Houko. Still, in the first series, wasn’t our 10 bronze saints fought each other for the Sagitarius Gold Cloth? They can’t be all under Sagitarius. So, if the wearer of the cloth is predetermined by their constellation like that, there’s no point for those bronze saints to fight each other, right? They can just pick which one of them are born under Sagitarius and if there’s more than one, they can fight it out (which didn’t happen in the original SS).

Well I would think it's because for the tournament it wasn't really an "official" rank trail since it was just thought up by Kido, and it was even before Saori knew she was Athena.

I always think that the process of how a saint obtain their cloths is a random thing. A prodigy saint can directly obtain a gold cloth like Virgo Shaka. Seiya became Sagitarius after being Pegasus without ranking-up to Silver first. Shaina directly become Ophiucus (Silver) after her early training. So yeah, I don’t think Kurumada thought much about it. He just wrote it as it is which kinda piss me off.

Yeah he definitely didn't think too hard about it. It would be good if it is random (then we can all hope that Ikki becomes Gemini lol). It would really SUCK if you are born into the constellation without any chance of ranking up, when it is obvious that the different clothes DO have attack/defence power difference. Like how we were told that different class clothes freezes at different temperatures and all that.

Do you know why we rarely meet a bronze saint who got promoted to silver? That's coz silver sucks (so far) . Those silvers are even more lame in Lost Canvas.

That is so true. The only time we saw a silver saint actually beating someone was during the Hades arc?

[Key Board]

Aren't all of the Silver saints except for Marin and Shaina dead?

Also.. I find it impossible to see Ikki as anything other than Phoenix

even getting a gold cloth would be a downgrade

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by houkoholic

Spoiler:

The saint ranking is something that always bothers me and something Kurumada really screwed up in IMO. While everyone can theoretically become a gold saint because everyone is born under one of the 12 gold rank constellation from their birthday and hence "ranking up" to a gold saint poses no problem, the bronze and silver ones are not so clear. So how do they determine who is born under which bronze zodiac sign, and how does one become a silver saint? Do they immediately become silver ie from no rank to silver, or is it that everyone is born under 3 constellations (a bronze, a silver and obviously the gold)?

I've always assumed whatever cloth you can get is decided by birth, so silvers become silver right away. It's impossible to know for sure since it was never addressed though; not even in the databooks, I think. Hopefully, Omega will provide some good explanations.

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Do you know why we rarely meet a bronze saint who got promoted to silver? That's coz silver sucks (so far) . Those silvers are even more lame in Lost Canvas.

Hey now, Hakurei is a silver saint and he kicks major ass. There was also Orphée in the original manga, who was said to be even stronger than Gold Saints.

We can't forget the legendary Sagitta Ptolemy either: the man nearly killed a goddess all by himself

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Hey now, Hakurei is a silver saint and he kicks major ass.

How about a large number of Silvers who killed off-page by Bennu Kagaho? Crow was killed by... I don’t know (it’s not that clear what killed him). Another large number of Silvers also ran with their tails between their legs after their asses were handed to them by a cloth-less Defteros. Even though the characters who owned those Silvers are very powerful, the way Lost Canvas depicted them made them look like real losers.

Yes, there are exceptions like Altair Hakurei and Crane Yuzuriha. They are truly badass characters.

[Akarin]

Images

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[Miraluka]

Well, Shion and Dohko were Bronze Saints who got ascended to Gold Saints.

[Blaat]

You know I'm surprised how much I'm liking this series even though I have no previous experience with Saint Seiya.

I kind of wish the girl kept wearing her mask though, she looked better with it.

[Tetsu Aero]

In Kurumada's manga, the Saints are born under a constellation. Though if you are Bronze or Silver you can get promoted to Gold.
Suikyo became a Silver Saint directly.

And there has been no saying that you can get promoted from Bronze to Silver.

[Rhyel]

Originally Posted by Akarin

I will take it. Thanks a lot.

[houkoholic]

Episode 4 goes into the new elemental nature of the cosmo, it's very RPG-ish where fundamentally fire > wind > thunder > earth > water > fire in full circle and light and darkness is outside of the circle, except of course if the wielder has greater cosmo they can overcome the fundamental elemental weakness.

Spoiler:

Shiryu and Shunrei both made a cameo appearance, but no words were spoken.

So apparently Shiryu lost his five senses in the last battle and trained Ryuho by cosmo synchronization/communication - which explains why Ryuho has a high grasp of his own cosmo as well as being sensitive in sensing cosmo of others, and can even tell how the enemy will move and attack according to the follow of cosmo in their body.

The fight between Kouga and Ryuho is referencing a lot of the original Seiya vs Shiryu fight, I think the writers added the new elemental attacks in hope to fix that stupid "same attack won't work on a saint twice" hole (but the bronze saints just keeps throwing them out again and again and eventually will work in the original work) since it's adding a lot more medium special attacks to the fight - to put it in a fighting game analogy if we take Street Fighter as an example the elemental-fused attacks will be like a Hadouken or Shouryuuken and the super specials like Shinku-hadouken or Shinryuuken will be the Ryuuseiken and Shouryuuha.

Have to say that it was pretty nostalgic to see Ryuho throw a Shouryuuha (and one shot which looked almost like he did an Excalibur too) and we got a bit of the old Saint Seiya style flying bodies and hard landing for the old farts to enjoy, but apparently he can only use it once due to his own frail body. I can see this plot point will be used a lot later in the series...

[n0m@n]

Originally Posted by houkoholic

Episode 4 goes into the new elemental nature of the cosmo, it's very RPG-ish where fundamentally fire > wind > thunder > earth > water > fire in full circle and light and darkness is outside of the circle, except of course if the wielder has greater cosmo they can overcome the fundamental elemental weakness.

Spoiler:

Shiryu and Shunrei both made a cameo appearance, but no words were spoken.

So apparently Shiryu lost his five senses in the last battle and trained Ryuho by cosmo synchronization/communication - which explains why Ryuho has a high grasp of his own cosmo as well as being sensitive in sensing cosmo of others, and can even tell how the enemy will move and attack according to the follow of cosmo in their body.

The fight between Kouga and Ryuho is referencing a lot of the original Seiya vs Shiryu fight, I think the writers added the new elemental attacks in hope to fix that stupid "same attack won't work on a saint twice" hole (but the bronze saints just keeps throwing them out again and again and eventually will work in the original work) since it's adding a lot more medium special attacks to the fight - to put it in a fighting game analogy if we take Street Fighter as an example the elemental-fused attacks will be like a Hadouken or Shouryuuken and the super specials like Shinku-hadouken or Shinryuuken will be the Ryuuseiken and Shouryuuha.

Have to say that it was pretty nostalgic to see Ryuho throw a Shouryuuha (and one shot which looked almost like he did an Excalibur too) and we got a bit of the old Saint Seiya style flying bodies and hard landing for the old farts to enjoy, but apparently he can only use it once due to his own frail body. I can see this plot point will be used a lot later in the series...

So who won the fight between Kouga and Ryuho?
I seriously hope Kouga gets his first win.

[Miraluka]

Originally Posted by n0m@n

So who won the fight between Kouga and Ryuho?
I seriously hope Kouga gets his first win.

Ryuho won this time.

[n0m@n]

Originally Posted by Wilfriback

Ryuho won this time.

Oh that's a bummer. So far Kouga has only been getting his butt kicked. I wish he will get victory for his next fight.

[houkoholic]

Originally Posted by n0m@n

Oh that's a bummer. So far Kouga has only been getting his butt kicked. I wish he will get victory for his next fight.

Well Kouga was poorly trained (he didn't want to learn then), not only that he hasn't got hold of his cosmo yet he also has no knowledge of his elemental power. In this episode they explained that understanding one's own elemental is now essential to become stronger in this new age of Saints (so even Hydra Shi - one of the original 10 bronze saints, is now still a student because he doesn't know his own elemental, I think Shiana is probably not that well versed in elemental power either).

Now Ryuho on the other hand is thoroughly trained (and highly motivated to become strong from early on) and has control of both his cosmo and his elemental power, his ability to read the enemy's flow of cosmo is also a huge advantage, if not for his frail body he is supposed to be the current strongest bronze saint. Even here Ryuho is really going easy on Kouga because what he really wanted to do was to guide Kouga to understand his own cosmo/elemental power, the writers will have to pull some serious thing out of the rear for current Kouga to beat Ryuho.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

So, Shiryu lost all five senses. I can't even begin to imagine how it feels . I wonder, can Shiryu "satisfy" Shunrei with his current condition ? If not, then poor Shunrei .

Btw, I have a question, guys. Is Yuna’s Aquila is the same as Marin’s Eagle constellation-wise? If it’s different, then what’s the differences?

Oh, speaking of Eagle Marin, I never thought that Marin’s cloth can actually form a constellation (since it’s so minimal) until I saw this:

Spoiler for Eagle:

But, with its fat body it looks more like a chicken to me .

[Goty]

Originally Posted by houkoholic

...
Even here Ryuho is really going easy on Kouga because what he really wanted to do was to guide Kouga to understand his own cosmo/elemental power, the writers will have to pull some serious thing out of the rear for current Kouga to beat Ryuho.

Yeah, i'm actually liking that even though Kouga will probably be another "chosen one", he's still shown to be a newbie, slowly learning to fight, and didn't get to win yet. It always bothered me how Tenma, for instance, seemed too overpowered from the get-go.
Heck, Seiya beating Shiryu at the beginning of the original series kind of didn't feel right to me either, and Seiya was way readier than Kouga is right now.