AnimeSuki Forums

Miraluka · 2012-06-28, 10:28

Just face it guys, Saten is becoming bit by bit into Railgun's Himegami.

Ilidsor · 2012-06-28, 10:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Meh, I don't count all over-9000 clones, just the one he personally saved.

With that the number count is still just three- Wait, I could have sworn I had this conversation before...

Never mind.

There was that one that Misaka met in Russia.... although that might have been just a little crush, not like 10032 who actually knows him.

Also I like to believe that Kanzaki likes Touma too. I realize that there is very little evidence, and all that is very weak, but dammit let me have this dream.

Quote:

Just face it guys, Saten is becoming bit by bit into Railgun's Himegami.

Who?

Miraluka · 2012-06-28, 10:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ilidsor

Who?

That's the spirit.

zaeraal · 2012-06-28, 10:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilfriback

Just face it guys, Saten is becoming bit by bit into Railgun's Himegami.

In what sense?
I doubt she will just disapear completly from Railgun manga.
(even if she really was pushed aside during this arc, she would certainly be back during the vol. 15 arc, where she even had cameo in LN illustration)

If it was about the damsel in distress part, then she was like that since the very begining (level upper arc got attacked and ended up in coma, Arts and Sciences City arc nearly drowned and killed, Railgun PSP got attacked and friends seriously injured, now this arc with the memory erase)

GoddyofAus · 2012-06-28, 12:08

I may be very wrong about this, and Saten is just another victim of Kamachis very complicated plot (thinking process), but I would wager that Saten is going to play a much bigger role then she currently does before Raildex is completely finished.

What that role will be remains to be seen I guess, but the level of subtlety Kamachi has surrounded her with seems more then a little convenient. Much like Aogami I guess. Maybe she might play a role in the whole Holistic Espers idea [/speculation].

Here's a wild prediction: Saten will feature in NT5 in some fashion,

Spoiler:

leukrota · 2012-06-28, 12:27

Whoa... easy on the spoilers, remember that this is the railgun manga thread, not light novel.

Miraluka · 2012-06-28, 12:31

Hope is the last thing one loses.

GoddyofAus · 2012-06-28, 12:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by leukrota

Whoa... easy on the spoilers, remember that this is the railgun manga thread, not light novel.

Oh shi- you're absolutely right. My fault.

Destined_Fate · 2012-06-28, 14:30

So... About the Sisters of Misaka. They have severely reduced life spans because they're clones(Were grown quickly, and weren't expected to live long anyway) and even treatment only recovers a bit of that lost time. Did they ever reveal in Railgun what their expire date is estimated to be even with treatment?

GoddyofAus · 2012-06-28, 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

So... About the Sisters of Misaka. They have severely reduced life spans because they're clones(Were grown quickly, and weren't expected to live long anyway) and even treatment only recovers a bit of that lost time. Did they ever reveal in Railgun what their expire date is estimated to be even with treatment?

Never stated, but you have to remember Dark Legacy, which is essentially a device that can heal any ailment. I presume it could keep any one of the Misakas alive for as long as they like.

Also, I don't know is Last Order suffers from the same degradation as the main clones.

Destined_Fate · 2012-06-28, 23:27

Well Last Order should have a longer lifespan than them since her age acceleration was cut off too soon and wasn't rushed out quickly just to die at the hands of Accelerator like the other clones. Though I doubt she will live as long as a normal human being because they said clones already had a much shorter lifespan, the accelerated aging just made it all that much shorter even with treatment.

tsunade666 · 2012-06-28, 23:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoddyofAus

Never stated, but you have to remember Dark Legacy, which is essentially a device that can heal any ailment.

It doesn't heal. It sustains life.

Destined_Fate · 2012-06-29, 00:20

Though how can you sustain something that already has a shorter limit? Clones don't have the same time chart as the original which is even more lopsided when their age is accelerated years ahead in the span of a week or so. They need treatments just to stop themselves from breaking down and stabilizing themselves. At most they have at least to young adulthood with treatments.

desrtsku · 2012-06-29, 01:36

Basically, dark legacy can (theoretically) sustain an "average man" for thousand years straight and works even on critically damaged human bodies (like maintaining pieces of a damaged human brain in function ... *cough*fridge-kun*cough*), so I don't think sustaining clones regardless of how shorter they lifespan/damaged they health is more than trivial matter with this device

Destined_Fate · 2012-06-29, 03:22

Though getting a hand on it is one thing and why use it on the clones? They don't even seem to care that they will die far sooner than the original. There are still 9k+ of them, would be pretty hard to use it for all of them.

desrtsku · 2012-06-29, 05:50

meh, did I ever said "they're gonna use it on them" anyway? ... as tsunade666 said it's not really meant to heal anyone, I just stated that it's possible to sustain them alive if one think of using it.
Whatever, if the said "treatment" is the problem, you shouldn't worry too much about that, they had a sufficient one enough to remove most side effects of the accelerated growth and for them not to fear any premature death. While clone may have shorter life span to begin with, it doesn't seems like they'll die before their twenties (Although I don't think they'll have the long enough adulthood normal people have). If the lifespan of the clones as they are now are that short anyway, I don't think they'd have kept quiet about it ... or rather I don't think really concerned people like Miko-chin (or Accelerator) wouldn't have known about it.

Chaos2Frozen · 2012-06-29, 06:40

Ehem... Railgun Manga thread here guys.

zaeraal · 2012-06-29, 06:50

Many new Images and summary of the chapter
http://kodoku21.blog83.fc2.com/blog-entry-2340.html

As for the discussion about clones

Spoiler for size:

I don't think the accelerated growth cut from their lifespawn. (it actually helped them)
It is basically simulated aging, in other words they got from fetus (embryo) to 14 years really quickly, which means that in a short period of time they lost 14 years (as if they were aging normally)

But in more scientific explanation - there is this Hayflick limit which limits how many times a cell can divide.
For humans it is 52.
So you can maximally get 2 ^ 52 = 4 503 599 627 370 496 cells (in a completly ideal state)
But there are two main problems, this is not proportional in every part of body and the main issue is the fact the original cell had to divide a lot of times to make entire body again.

Adult human body has 10-50 milion milion cells (10 000 000 000 000)
Let's say little Mikoto had about 1 000 000 000 000 cells.
Which means, that she already lost (if we supose the cells didn't started dying yet) 40 from 52 divisions!
Quite interesting, no?

But like I said before, it's not completly proportional, so they could have taken a cell that had like 10-20 divisions
So if we start from let's say 10, add another 40 to it to make entire body, add yet another 1-2 to make a 14 year old body.
We can assume that all Misaka clones IN AVERAGE are at their maximum cell division limit (or close to it).

What does it mean - well their brains are going to be OK for another 50 years, their blood cells will last for about 120 days, but their skin for only few months before it will need to repair (thus divide) again.
As for their organs, probably few years.

So how long they are going to live - first they will start having skin problems (cancers too) in a few months from their birth and they will start looking like old hags (probably should have already started looking like that!!)
Then they will get problems with blood (but this can be replaced) and in a few yeras problems with organs, which will lead to death.

So their maximum lifespawn is about several years depending on their internal organs. (But they will still look like old hags without any AC help)

desrtsku · 2012-06-29, 08:42

hmm ... what? did she just deal with that mosquito without relying on her powers? how convenient. And that damn Baba, he deserves a hardcore Kakine-like gyaku-ryona by Accelerator.

Spoiler for tch:

Quote:

Originally Posted by zaeraal

As for the discussion about clones

Spoiler for size:

I don't think the accelerated growth cut from their lifespawn. (it actually helped them)
It is basically simulated aging, in other words they got from fetus (embryo) to 14 years really quickly, which means that in a short period of time they lost 14 years (as if they were aging normally)

But in more scientific explanation - there is this Hayflick limit which limits how many times a cell can divide.
For humans it is 52.
So you can maximally get 2 ^ 52 = 4 503 599 627 370 496 cells (in a completly ideal state)
But there are two main problems, this is not proportional in every part of body and the main issue is the fact the original cell had to divide a lot of times to make entire body again.

Adult human body has 10-50 milion milion cells (10 000 000 000 000)
Let's say little Mikoto had about 1 000 000 000 000 cells.
Which means, that she already lost (if we supose the cells didn't started dying yet) 40 from 52 divisions!
Quite interesting, no?

But like I said before, it's not completly proportional, so they could have taken a cell that had like 10-20 divisions
So if we start from let's say 10, add another 40 to it to make entire body, add yet another 1-2 to make a 14 year old body.
We can assume that all Misaka clones IN AVERAGE are at their maximum cell division limit (or close to it).

What does it mean - well their brains are going to be OK for another 50 years, their blood cells will last for about 120 days, but their skin for only few months before it will need to repair (thus divide) again.
As for their organs, probably few years.

So how long they are going to live - first they will start having skin problems (cancers too) in a few months from their birth and they will start looking like old hags (probably should have already started looking like that!!)
Then they will get problems with blood (but this can be replaced) and in a few yeras problems with organs, which will lead to death.

So their maximum lifespawn is about several years depending on their internal organs. (But they will still look like old hags without any AC help)

Erm ... what?

Master Assassin · 2012-06-29, 08:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by desrtsku

hmm ... what? did she just deal with that mosquito without relying on her powers? how convenient. And that damn Baba, he deserves a hardcore Kakine-like gyaku-ryona by Accelerator.

Spoiler for tch:

She did, if you notice one panel that her "electromagnetic radar" goes off.

2012-06-28, 12:08	Link #3025
GoddyofAus Level 5 Pyrokineticist Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Australia	I may be very wrong about this, and Saten is just another victim of Kamachis very complicated plot (thinking process), but I would wager that Saten is going to play a much bigger role then she currently does before Raildex is completely finished. What that role will be remains to be seen I guess, but the level of subtlety Kamachi has surrounded her with seems more then a little convenient. Much like Aogami I guess. Maybe she might play a role in the whole Holistic Espers idea [/speculation]. Here's a wild prediction: Saten will feature in NT5 in some fashion, Spoiler: maybe as a LI for Kakine if he indeed comes back and the series follows its common theme of "Reformed Antagonist" that Gods Right Seat, Mugino and Accelerator have followed. Last edited by GoddyofAus; 2012-06-28 at 12:32.

2012-06-29, 01:36	Link #3034
desrtsku Nympholept Join Date: May 2011 Location: Wonderland. Age: 31	Basically, dark legacy can (theoretically) sustain an "average man" for thousand years straight and works even on critically damaged human bodies (like maintaining pieces of a damaged human brain in function ... coughfridge-kuncough), so I don't think sustaining clones regardless of how shorter they lifespan/damaged they health is more than trivial matter with this device __________________

2012-06-29, 05:50	Link #3036
desrtsku Nympholept Join Date: May 2011 Location: Wonderland. Age: 31	meh, did I ever said "they're gonna use it on them" anyway? ... as tsunade666 said it's not really meant to heal anyone, I just stated that it's possible to sustain them alive if one think of using it. Whatever, if the said "treatment" is the problem, you shouldn't worry too much about that, they had a sufficient one enough to remove most side effects of the accelerated growth and for them not to fear any premature death. While clone may have shorter life span to begin with, it doesn't seems like they'll die before their twenties (Although I don't think they'll have the long enough adulthood normal people have). If the lifespan of the clones as they are now are that short anyway, I don't think they'd have kept quiet about it ... or rather I don't think really concerned people like Miko-chin (or Accelerator) wouldn't have known about it. __________________

2012-06-29, 06:40	Link #3037
Chaos2Frozen We're Back Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Redgrave City Age: 35	Ehem... Railgun Manga thread here guys. __________________ Devil Trigger , Subhuman , Crimson Cloud , Mad Qualia

2012-06-28, 10:28	Link #3021
Miraluka Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Age: 34	Just face it guys, Saten is becoming bit by bit into Railgun's Himegami.

2012-06-28, 12:27	Link #3026
leukrota Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011	Whoa... easy on the spoilers, remember that this is the railgun manga thread, not light novel.

2012-06-28, 12:31	Link #3027
Miraluka Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Age: 34	Hope is the last thing one loses.

2012-06-28, 14:30	Link #3029
Destined_Fate Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: "Sacrifice one to appease the few."	So... About the Sisters of Misaka. They have severely reduced life spans because they're clones(Were grown quickly, and weren't expected to live long anyway) and even treatment only recovers a bit of that lost time. Did they ever reveal in Railgun what their expire date is estimated to be even with treatment?

2012-06-28, 23:27	Link #3031
Destined_Fate Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: "Sacrifice one to appease the few."	Well Last Order should have a longer lifespan than them since her age acceleration was cut off too soon and wasn't rushed out quickly just to die at the hands of Accelerator like the other clones. Though I doubt she will live as long as a normal human being because they said clones already had a much shorter lifespan, the accelerated aging just made it all that much shorter even with treatment.

2012-06-29, 00:20	Link #3033
Destined_Fate Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: "Sacrifice one to appease the few."	Though how can you sustain something that already has a shorter limit? Clones don't have the same time chart as the original which is even more lopsided when their age is accelerated years ahead in the span of a week or so. They need treatments just to stop themselves from breaking down and stabilizing themselves. At most they have at least to young adulthood with treatments.

2012-06-29, 03:22	Link #3035
Destined_Fate Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: "Sacrifice one to appease the few."	Though getting a hand on it is one thing and why use it on the clones? They don't even seem to care that they will die far sooner than the original. There are still 9k+ of them, would be pretty hard to use it for all of them.

2012-06-29, 06:50	Link #3038
zaeraal Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010	Many new Images and summary of the chapter http://kodoku21.blog83.fc2.com/blog-entry-2340.html As for the discussion about clones Spoiler for size: I don't think the accelerated growth cut from their lifespawn. (it actually helped them) It is basically simulated aging, in other words they got from fetus (embryo) to 14 years really quickly, which means that in a short period of time they lost 14 years (as if they were aging normally) But in more scientific explanation - there is this Hayflick limit which limits how many times a cell can divide. For humans it is 52. So you can maximally get 2 ^ 52 = 4 503 599 627 370 496 cells (in a completly ideal state) But there are two main problems, this is not proportional in every part of body and the main issue is the fact the original cell had to divide a lot of times to make entire body again. Adult human body has 10-50 milion milion cells (10 000 000 000 000) Let's say little Mikoto had about 1 000 000 000 000 cells. Which means, that she already lost (if we supose the cells didn't started dying yet) 40 from 52 divisions! Quite interesting, no? But like I said before, it's not completly proportional, so they could have taken a cell that had like 10-20 divisions So if we start from let's say 10, add another 40 to it to make entire body, add yet another 1-2 to make a 14 year old body. We can assume that all Misaka clones IN AVERAGE are at their maximum cell division limit (or close to it). What does it mean - well their brains are going to be OK for another 50 years, their blood cells will last for about 120 days, but their skin for only few months before it will need to repair (thus divide) again. As for their organs, probably few years. So how long they are going to live - first they will start having skin problems (cancers too) in a few months from their birth and they will start looking like old hags (probably should have already started looking like that!!) Then they will get problems with blood (but this can be replaced) and in a few yeras problems with organs, which will lead to death. So their maximum lifespawn is about several years depending on their internal organs. (But they will still look like old hags without any AC help)