Claymore Chapter 122

[Nixl]

Originally Posted by MalakTawus

Deneve will die.........

........but 3 days later she will resurrect and return to Rabona like it's nothing.

No seriously, this time i really have no idea who could die,the only one that i think it's improbable is Miria 'cause her fake death is too close......uness it will be a complete carneficine and Miria and the ghosts will sacrifice their lives to let the young warriors escape.

As much as I would love Deneve to get wedged out of the story, I think either Raftela or the Roxanne/Cassandra fight conclusion will put a stop to the fight before anyone dies. I would love if Galatea/Mita/Clarice stepped in, but I doubt it. If this arc is just an elaborate means to to end Claire vs Priscilla without Claire going Super Saiyan form then most of these characters probably have a role saved for later.

I am still thinking Roxanne has to have some fusion ability otherwise she is just going to get cocked-slapped by Priscilla (assuming she makes it that far). That and, I can make some Captain Planet or Voltron parodies.

Also, based on the rebelling Claymore and Raftela's speaches, I think Yagi wants this to be a happy ending to the organization.

edit: Deneve fans. Oh you,

[Ryus]

If Deneve was to die... I... I dont think I'd care at this point. That... kinda disappoints me to realize this, thank Nixl for that . Worse, is that I don't care about a character Yagi has seemingly been going out of his way to keep alive. Sigh, I want to believe the characters dont have plot shields again, that's all I really want of this manga... I'd even be happy if Tabitha was to live (which I really don't want btw) if I believed anyone could die again.

[Shiek927]

This whole situation has the ability to become such a blood-bath, it sends a huuuuge message if nobody dies.

I mean, fine, one may say that goes too far, but it's still something if the Rebellion and the revival/awakening of three Abyssals don't result in one single person's death.

[Nixl]

It is not so much plot shield in my opinion as once they fulfill a certain function Yagi can toss them. Furthermore...

Oh christ, gf is talking my ear off over the phone, type later.

edit: I kind of forget where I was going but,
-Irene, who we thought was dead, the moment she fulfilled the the role of teacher in mountains. Dead
-Jean reversed a full awakening and she evaded death, but the moment she fulfilled the friendship is magic theme. Dead.
-Rene brought Claire to Raphaela/Luciella. Dead (I know someone is going to say that she is alive)
-Raftela, probably a plot device/protection personified literally kept the plot going by saving Miria and co. Dead-ish.

Apart from side characters that do not matter such as the tortured Claymores in Witch's Maw, Pieta canon fodder, Claire's Extra Chapter trainees, and the body count from Roxanne's story, it seems to me that Yagi has (1) favorites such as Miria and (2) Plot devices personified in characters that are used to keep the story going (Jean, Irene, etc). Note, I am not using plot device personified in a negative sense, but rather these characters were essentially used to keep the plot going and died soon after.

If anything, Yagi does have favorites (Miria, Deneve, Helen, etc). The Three Stooges.

[Ryus]

My problem with that pov is many "side" characters who should have by now died or been left behind still seemingly have larger roles than a side character should. I dont see any reason to keep Audrey, Rachel, and Nina alive, yet seemingly just have the other 37 warriors present just disappear from the battlefield (written in a way that seemed fatal when it happened... but after the fact as if that wasnt true and they're just hurt with big boboos, sigh). Cassandra's awakening should have blasted Audrey at the very least to bits, yet that fact was ignored and then Cassandra destroyes Roxanne as if it was nothing and she was fighting the best out of the two of them in human form... etc...

Anyways, Yagi clearly has his favorites (those you listed) but I've been holding out hope Yagi's been keeping them alive so everyone can find out that they're partially awakened so whatever plot Yagi wants to develop from that, well can... but all these minor characters suriving everything (even the guards in the holy city all survived the attack in ch 108, I mean you think one yoma or ab could kill someone before Galatea and crew could save them) just makes me think plot shield vs these characters having a purpose and them dying once it is complete. At the very least Yagi's plot is to that end a bit contrived in helping these characters explainably last long enough to die at the time he has planned for them to die.

Don't get me wrong, there is good ways to keep characters alive such as what Yagi did with Yuma being saved by Dietrich... that was very emotional and well written. However things like nameless gaurds all surviving, Audrey, Raftela, Rachel, Nina, most if not all of the 37 non single digits surviving time and again hopeless situations just kills my belief in Yagi not insituting plot shields on characters whom dont warrent it. I mean sure, fine, Miria survives another no hope situation after being stupid... at least she has a plot purpose in doing so, by why is everyone else too. When we get down to it we don't need a single digit of the current gen to thank Miria for saving the island/humanity/fellow warriors, just the girl whom gave the narritive in ch 113/4... so why keep those 3 alive? It just seems it would be quicker and neater (writing wise) to kill them off and move one plot wise.

------

On a seperate note anyone want to take a wadger at how long until the twins step in and join the ghost/warriors vs Hysteria fight?
A)first 5 pages
B) within first 15 pages
C) in the last 15 pages
D) not in next chapter but evetually do
E) they never do for _______reason

EDIT: sorry for typos, on cell...

[Claymore!]

^The answer is (A)
within the first 5 pages

But maybe the twins will die this chapter. Or not.

Its like you said, the minor characters like Nina, Rachel, Audrey don't really have a purpose and most people don't even like them. And yes, Audrey and the others should have been blown away and killed by Cassandra's awakening. I mean they were already weakened from having their limbs cut off. They shouldn't have much strength left. They also fought Abyssal feeders before that.

The twins haven't even been given names yet. It seems like they will die soon if they are still unnamed (even though they have been in multiply chapters)

[Nixl]

I know someone is going to step in, but at least I am hopeful that the ghosts CANNOT defeat Hysteria alone. I would be rather angry that they could defeat an abysmal on their own.

As far as the point that I lost during raging gf's call, generally I think there are main characters, utility characters (Raftela, Raki), and canon fodder (Pieta claymores). I am not saying it is a perfect theory, but there are definitely some characters that exist to keep the plot going such as Raftela. At this point I am certain the Three Stooges shall live, but I cannot help but think that Ana and Dietrich as well as some of the other claymores will have a deeper role in the future. Maybe not, but it feels like Yagi is making a new core group if that makes sense. That, for the moment, is why I think Nina, Audrey, etc could live, because overall these guys have some purpose to fulfill still.

edit: Basically Ryus, I think there are two possibilities for why Yagi is saving Nina, Audrey, etc. (1) Yagi wants a happy ending for the female warriors. Or, (2) that Yagi may do a DoD arc and if he trims the cast too much than there would not be enough Claymores to engage in such a fight. If the premise behind the DoDs is that they are a legion of Dragons then having 7 characters live through this would not be much to go on. Hence, Yagi is adding D, Ana, Audrey and so forth into a greater core group. That to me would have a clear purpose in saving all these side characters.

Then again, Yagi may just stop the story. Who knows,

[Claymore!]

Originally Posted by Nixl

I know someone is going to step in, but at least I am hopeful that the ghosts CANNOT defeat Hysteria alone. I would be rather angry that they could defeat an abysmal on their own.

I wouldn't expect them too. honestly I have no idea how they are going to make it.

At this point I am certain the Three Stooges shall live, but I cannot help but think that Ana and Dietrich as well as some of the other claymores will have a deeper role in the future. Maybe not, but it feels like Yagi is making a new core group if that makes sense. That, for the moment, is why I think Nina, Audrey, etc are going to live, because overall these guys have some purpose to fulfill still.

I certainly hope that Miria, Helen, and Deneve survive. They are very important characters. I understand what you are saying about Yagi trying to make a new core group with Ana and Dietrich, but i think that it would be terrible. Those characters are bland and don't have much personality. I would prefer it if we didn't see them very often.

[Nixl]

Perhaps Claymore!, but I am starting to wonder that *IF* Yagi is expanding the core group, why? The only answer that I have is that those side characters, no matter how bland, are needed for a future story arc that may involve the DoDs. Again, maybe not, but if such an arc is transitioning from small groups of warriors hunting Yoma to battles with legions of dragons then I would expect the cast to grow to meet that scale of battle.


If not DoDs then all I can think of is Happy Ending.

[SpiritOfGray]

The next character to die...will be Dietrich.

I've said it before, but I'll say it again. The feeling of helplessness needs to return to Claymore, and last chapter I was seeing glimpses of it. I never see people complain about Claire surviving Ophelia, or the 4 defeating the first male awakened. Those chapters weren't some Rigardo rampage, but they still gave that feeling.

I dislike the lack of intent that has been put into the recent chapters. This arc has been tippy toeing around the story as if it's not allowed to make a big change. Characters with potential have been added, yet...they haven't done anything that will have a lasting effect on the rest of the story.

[Claymore!]

Originally Posted by Nixl

If not DoDs then all I can think of is Happy Ending.

I wouldn't mind that. I think that a happy ending to this dark Manga would be nice. Especially if Clare and Raki finally are together again. And Helen, Deneve, and Miria survive

Originally Posted by SpiritOfGray
The next character to die...will be Dietrich.

I wouldn't mind that either. I find her annoying and pointless as a character.

[Ryus]

To be clear, I think Yagi does have a reason to keep them alive... however I think it's going to end up being "Fridge logic". In short Yagi just wants them alive to state something trivial (or become minor backup characters, but I dont think Yagi would end this series 100% happy, was thinking bitter sweet myself at best since happy just seems so out of place for this series), like how warriors in general think of the ghosts and fight but he does't care about the plot hole of how they can still be alive given there previous impossible situation.

Thus to me it screams plot shield vs Yagi only keeping them alive until they're not needed since he's going out of his way to keep them alive for seemingly next to no grand plot purpose at all, since technically anyone else could do that role too... and it would make more sense that way. I dont know, I just fear Yagi is going this just since he doesnt want to waste 10 panels introducing another character but instead wastes 20 keeping 3 alive instead againt all know facts and odds. Worse yet is how anticlimatic keeping them alive was when we all know Cassandra's awakening should have killed them and we have a month of time to realize it and sigh once again as they then went on to survive Cassandra trying to eat them.

I can see a purpose in keeping the ghosts alive, for now anyways, but all these minor characters surviving the impossible one after the other in a series that was previoulsy know for killing off useless characters just seems so... hard to swallow (no ab finding it hard to eat yoma/warrior flesh joke intended).

I must be bored to be discussing this

Think we'll get spoilers by next monday? Or tueday? We need something else to talk about...

[Nixl]

Originally Posted by SpiritOfGray

I dislike the lack of intent that has been put into the recent chapters. This arc has been tippy toeing around the story as if it's not allowed to make a big change. Characters with potential have been added, yet...they haven't done anything that will have a lasting effect on the rest of the story.

I think that the reason for the tiptoeing and lack of despair is that this arc is merely a set up for the next arc (Claire vs Priscilla). As in, the actions do not matter so much as the characters that are being introduced. They seemingly have purpose. Dae's words in 120 (121?) somewhat confirms that the entire reason for the ZAOs relates to finding Priscilla. Therefore, until we see the blob again this is just padding for time and trying to make it less obvious. All in all, this must lead back to the blob (Claire/Priscilla).

Edit: @Ryus, but the thing is perhaps these useless characters are not so useless. Irene became Claire's mountain training arc and Rene died just so that Claire would have a reason to go to Raphaela. We have seen seemingly useless side characters serve a function later on.


I see you Ryus, tpyin' dat reply.

[Ryus]

Originally Posted by Claymore!

I certainly hope that Miria, Helen, and Deneve survive. They are very important characters. I understand what you are saying about Yagi trying to make a new core group with Ana and Dietrich, but i think that it would be terrible. Those characters are bland and don't have much personality. I would prefer it if we didn't see them very often.

I dont know, those two have quite a bit of personality in the bit we've gotten to know them and Dietrich even has even gotten a decent back story (and honorable characters are often very popular but she has the whole naive yet seasoned thing going on too). Anastasia seems to me to have tons of potential, character wise not so sure power wise (except in groups), and has even gotten a cover page implying Yagi might have a plan for her long term. I honestly am a fan of both of them since both fit really well into established warrior character types/personalities yet are unique enough to stand out too. Anastasia has been a bigger hit in her few pages we've gotten to know her thus far than Tabitha for example maybe even more than Cynthia. Sure she's a bit of a Mary Sue but she's funny (in a playfully banterious way, think Teresa insults but meant to tease a friend in a not so serious way vs insulting an enemy before killing them) and very hot, while having a minor enough role for me to look past her being a bit of a Mary Sue.

We could do much worse for new allies than Dietrich or Anastasia... such as Rachel, Nina, Audrey, or Raftela (though power wise she'd make a great ally and character wise she is getting more likeable). (In that order too, imho... I could live with Audrey or Raftela but looking at Rachel every day would be and Nina is just so generic as to be pointless Yagi would really have to play up her "I used to think I was awesome since I was a single digit but now realize I'm fodder and will have to train my ass off to be useful" card).

[Ryus]

Originally Posted by Nixl

Edit: @Ryus, but the thing is perhaps these useless characters are not so useless. Irene became Claire's mountain training arc and Rene died just so that Claire would have a reason to go to Raphaela. We have seen seemingly useless side characters serve a function later on.


I see you Ryus, tpyin' dat reply.

Uh... Irene was played off as dead so it was a "twist" when she came back (and only for a bit) and Renee never once didn't survive an impossible situation, yet... (Riful wanted her alive so she lived, that simple until she ran that is.) So I fail to see how they compair to Audrey and co surviving at least 3 impossible situations in 5 chapters or nameless city guards living against a city wide assault from numerious ABs and yoma. I get the purpose argument (for the named characters anyway ) but I still think Yagi here is doing fridge logic to keep them alive for that purpose , Yagi didn't do that for either Irene or Renee (at least I'm presuming they're dead ) so here it just feels like a plot hole or shield... even if it isn't.

As to the typing, yeah on cell with virtual key board... it takes a while to type on it to say the least

[Nixl]

What I am trying to say, although not very well, is that even characters that we did not believe had a huge role sometimes become more important later on. Perhaps a better example would be Yuma. She started off at Tabitha level and has since moved up. Raki may very well be another example. Essentially, Nina and co may be useless now, but could perhaps have greater significance in the future if only to die moments later.

Putting our dislike for them aside Ryus, I think it is too soon to call them useless essentially. I disliked Jean and what Yagi did with the character, but she had a purpose, especially later on.

[Shiek927]

The thing is though is that, sooner or later, Yagi has to do something for them even if he truly does have a role or a future for them in mind -- unfortunately, like with Tabitha, people can be waiting a long looong time for that to actually happen.

The answer could very well be that he hasn't even thought of something yet for them, but he wants too at some point, so he keeps them around indefinitely....it's frustrating though how those characters have been around for ages and they don't get any development, whereas other characters like Anastasia or Dietrich, we've known only for a short time, yet we already know their story and they've gotten much more development then others have gotten in years.

[Claymore!]

I don't know Ryus, I still think that they are kinda bland characters. (I also meant Nina, Rachel, and Audrey too) I also mean Bland overall and not just personality

I never liked Dietrich because her personality was so dull (she was so obedient to the Org.) that i never had any interest in her afterward. Even when she had her big emotional moment and started to cry i never had any interest in her. And i don't think she is attractive.

Anastasia i find flat. To me she just doesn't have any depth. Sure she is pretty but its like that saying, "beauty is only skin deep". She just doesn't seem that great.

I don't think i need to say why Rachel, Nina, and Rachel are bland, most people don't like them, especially Rachel.

I don't really care for any of the recently introduced characters (except Miata, Clarice, the Twins, and that one trainee that spoke to Raki , and maybe a few other trainees)
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But right now the smartest thing for the Ghosts to do is probably to try to run away and hope that Hysteria won't follow them.

[Ryus]

@Nixl... I get what you're saying but sorry my initial reaction (which I still believe is true) is along the lines of what shieky just said. I see either what I stated earlier or just a desire to do something with them later but with no real plan in the works atm, I see that as disappointing since when you get down to it it is like George Lucas desciding he's going to waste money on making ewoks blink. I mean ok, its his story but as a fan couldn't you instead waste time doing something actually productive that helps the current plot line and not stagnates it (@ yagi not lucas... I want him to become one with the force so timothy zahns novels can become episode 7-9 )

Originally Posted by Claymore!

I don't know Ryus, I still think that they are kinda bland characters. (I also meant Nina, Rachel, and Audrey too) I also mean Bland overall and not just personality

I never liked Dietrich because her personality was so dull (she was so obedient to the Org.) that i never had any interest in her afterward. Even when she had her big emotional moment and started to cry i never had any interest in her. And i don't think she is attractive.

Anastasia i find flat. To me she just doesn't have any depth. Sure she is pretty but its like that saying, "beauty is only skin deep". She just doesn't seem that great.

I don't think i need to say why Rachel, Nina, and Rachel are bland, most people don't like them, especially Rachel.

I don't really care for any of the recently introduced characters (except Miata, Clarice, the Twins, and that one trainee that spoke to Raki , and maybe a few other trainees)
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But right now the smartest thing for the Ghosts to do is probably to try to run away and hope that Hysteria won't follow them.

0.o... why is my pedo alarm going off after you stated you likeed the trainees? You either worded that very poorly, or very deliberativly... ( J/k)

I called Anastasia a bit of a Mary Sue... and most by definition are flat. That said she at least surves a purpose atm of keeping the ghosts off the ground, though Hysteria seems capaible of getting them in the air too maybe she coould do even better if on the ground and by attacking them in the air Miria will find some counter... just thinking out loud.

Anyways fully agree about Rachel and Nina but more so with Rachel ()

However it just maybe me but I can't recall Dietrich crying... I kinda agree on her attractiveness but RobinGI art of her is bloody hot so apparently many others disagree.

I do wonder what you mean by bland overall not just personality... the thought process/wording seems to contridict itself a bit there. Do you mean there charcaters plot (which logically would be at the same level for most this arc), their art design, sword techiques/powers (recall they are higher single digits and not 1-5), or something else like the size of there role or just what they,ve contributed thus far? Etc... just trying to understand you here...

As to running away, I don't think they'd make a mile before Hysteria got them all. This isn't like out running a hungry bear where you just have to out run the slowest guy in the group... after allshe can't feed herself and as such will keep killing until she's paided them all back.

[ReverseReasoning]

Yes, I'm gonna defend Dietrich.

Why?

Dietrich is definitely a character that is yet to grow. She is definitely a moralistic and a true, loyal subordinate. She is calm, cunning and strong for her number. She can definitely learn and possibly outclass the ghosts if given the same time skip. Dietrich is not shallow, being moralistic and true to your beliefs does not indicate any shallowness, at least in my opinion. You guys don't even know her back story yet. Let's just wait for Yagi to build her up more as a character.

However, I do think that Deneve is that boring, shallow character that should receive the death you guys anticipate for Dietrich. Yes, I hate Deneve because she is the most annoying, irritating, arrogant Claymore ever. Her character design is blah, like a man with breasts. She always goes around boasting about her stupid techniques that repeat itself again and again. I mean, if she died, we would have less panels of her stupidly fast regeneration and more panels of intense fights. Anyways, Deneve has a sucky back story and never stops to talk *shit for a number 15. Insanely annoying.