Macross - Mecha, Weapons, and Technology

[Wild Goose]

It's not unknown to see older classes of vessels remaining in service; the Nimitz-class carriers are nearing 40 years old, afterall. So long as the class retains periodic updating and new construction comes in to replace older vessels, there's no problem.

[Urei]

This is also a good reason why fighters get more technology and design updates over larger ship classes. In Macross, VF's are used as a first line defenece as well as main attack vessels, even against larger ships. It was stated on multiple ocasions that VF's main purpose is to fight with speed, mobility and stealth.

I should point out though that space fighters don't really make sense from a cost/benefit point of view. Sci Fi tends to give us the wrong impression about how space combat would really work, but that's because most space battle in Sci Fi are influenced by WW2 naval battles in the Pacific Theater where aircraft reigned supreme (Star Wars for example).

I'm sorry but I really can't agree with that. First things first. The technology of the world the series is set in provides the requirements on what type of ships are needed in a fight. Until a large class ship is able to defend itself from a 360* attack of a swarm of small ships with beams, shields or barriers, missile launchers or other type turrets, there will always be a reason to produce fighters, especially those that can operate on different type of terrain.

Now, in most cases fighters really don't have that much firepower that can stand up against an armor of a large ship. It's common knowledge and i can agree with that. Still, series like Macross provide fighters with much more firepower and types of arms. I always found it funny why sci-fi series neglected such an important issue like miniaturization. From guns to rockets, lasers ect. Macross provides us with many types of weapons, as well as those mass destruction type reactive weaponry that now can be used with fighters.

My point is that each ship class is needed until it's required and has the potential to fight efficiently. This is on the other hand a direct result of the technology utilized in the series world.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Spoiler for hi-res:

Translation? Please?

[kilroy0097]

A fighter class ship will always have limited weapons, armor and systems on it due to it's size. It's greatest assets are speed and maneuverability. Fighters mainly go after other fighter classes or go after specific locations on a main ship. Delivering payload to either cripple or damage the larger ship so that allied main ships can take it out in the end. Though in modern times the fighter class has been speced to take out main ships with air to ground anti-ship weapons. Usually this involves a group of fighters and not just a couple.

A capital, main ship has access to much more power and hence can have larger guns, more armor and even shielding. We have yet to see the shielding in use on the current SMS capital ship which I find odd since even the SDF1 had a pinpoint shield system that had to be moved around.

Where the current series breaks down is that we are seeing the Vajra heavy fighter species (the big red ones with the large gun on top) easily destroying Macross Cruiser class or higher main ships. These ships should have much larger armor and even shields and yet we see them destroyed with relative ease. Hence they have had to resort to much larger weapons on fighters (the extra gun on the wing and missile pods) to take out the highly maneuverable and destructive heavy fighter class Vajra species form before they get into range to attack the capital ships. I suppose it shows just how powerful the Vajra are if one of these things can take out a capital ship in a handful of shots.

That's my take on it.

[squaresphere]

I'm still saying that the Vajra are protoculure manufactured, and we saw from the Devlin series they can make weapons with massive destructive ability.

With the Devlin series the problem was the energy source to to power them didn't exist other than that alternate dimension that housed the protodevlin spirits.

Now with the Vajra, while they seem extremely powerful in regards to being able to blow up capital ships with a couple of shots, but compared to the most powerful creations of the protoculure, they're pretty tame.

[grss1982]

BTW...some pics I found while browsing Macross World....

http://i38.tinypic.com/adcfvc.jpg

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/148...9221296tv9.jpg

So...Alto's VF-171EX gets a repaint, eh?

[kilroy0097]

Maybe they made him a Flight Leader and so he gets a nifty new paint job on his NUNS fighter.

[ChronoReverse]

Even NUNS can completely destroy a cruiser with a single shot from a fighter when they use Reaction Weaponry...

[Tabris]

I wonder if Luca will get his own colours.

[Wildstar]

about the Mechs, if we take BattleTech as semi-canon (and if I remember correctly), the Archer/Spartan, Warhammer/Tomahawk, and Rifleman/Defender were all 75 tons, the Marauder/Glaug was 85 tons.

The heaviest air mech I remember was maybe 65 tons, of which 20 tons was transforming machinery and propulsion... basically a 45 ton mech (Shadow Hawk? Phoenix Hawk?)

A Mech is always tougher than an air-mech because the tonnage you'd normally spend on transforming and propulsion systems are used on more missles, more autocannon, more missiles, etc. Ton for ton, it is always tougher. The only thing you lose is mobility, which is fine in a spot you need to defend or inside an environmental shell ala Macross.

Those Cheyennes look like maybe anywhere from 30-50 tons based on seeing humans standing fairly close to them and the size of Varja vs their size - that Varja tackling a Cheyenne for instance. I'd say more like 30 possibly 40 tons.

Where's the beef is what I'd like to know. At least we saw that one glimpse of a Glaug... I want to see one kick major ass, though. Or a Spartan walk over and just slug a red varja until it is unconscious.

[Tak]

In old data sheets, the Macross originals were much lighter and faster than their Battletech ripoffs. Although that is another story in itself.

Originally Posted by Wildstar

Where's the beef is what I'd like to know. At least we saw that one glimpse of a Glaug... I want to see one kick major ass, though. Or a Spartan walk over and just slug a red varja until it is unconscious.

A Red Vajra is about twice the size of a Valkyrie, and still bigger than a Spartan. I am not too sure if they can just slug it out. Winning one of those in a Spartan, Archer or Defender seems rather difficult to me.

The Konigsmonster is supposedly the largest mass produced mecha available to humanity and certainly the biggest in Macross. Unfortunately, it is not exactly designed for hand to hand combat.

- Tak

[Wildstar]

Idunno if a red varja is quite twice the valk's tonnage. Let's say a valk is 40-65 tons. 20 of that could be propulsion and transforming machinery. So a 75-ton archer has twice the "muscle" of the biggest valk (stronger arms/legs, more armor, etc) and we've seen valkyries grapple with and punch red varja.

It's far from inconceivable.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Wildstar

Idunno if a red varja is quite twice the valk's tonnage. Let's say a valk is 40-65 tons. 20 of that could be propulsion and transforming machinery. So a 75-ton archer has twice the "muscle" of the biggest valk (stronger arms/legs, more armor, etc) and we've seen valkyries grapple with and punch red varja.

It's far from inconceivable.

Oh, its not inconceivable, its just difficult. The VF-171s for example, only punched smaller Vajras but they never went against the big ones.

While Ozma did slug it out with a Red Vajra, but in episode 1 as was shown, it proved quite a challenge for him. Had it been any lesser pilot, going hand to hand would not have been a wise choice.

An Archer is heavier certainly, but it is not that much bigger. If we take the original Macross into consideration, an Archer had difficulties pacifying macronized Zents.

It seems to me that unless you are on the top tier of piloting skills, you are better off killing Vajras from far, far away.

- Tak

[Wildstar]

....and that's what would make a John Wayne type slugging of a varja so very manly

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Wildstar

....and that's what would make a John Wayne type slugging of a varja so very manly

And to imagine he also acted Genghis Khan...

Oh, the nightmares...

- Tak

[grss1982]

Originally Posted by Wildstar

Idunno if a red varja is quite twice the valk's tonnage. Let's say a valk is 40-65 tons. 20 of that could be propulsion and transforming machinery. So a 75-ton archer has twice the "muscle" of the biggest valk (stronger arms/legs, more armor, etc) and we've seen valkyries grapple with and punch red varja.

It's far from inconceivable.

Actually valks are less than or just around 20 tons.

That's according to the stats of certain VFs on these web site: http://macross.anime.net/ & http://www.new-un-spacy.com/m3.html

IIRC, the stats there are considered canon, since they were published as official stats for certain VFs.

[Ithekro]

One nightmare in a sea of gold is worth it.

[kilroy0097]

The scene with the big red Vajra crushing the ship that Ranka and Brera were on.
I don't know of any VF that could crush a ship like that.

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by kilroy0097

The scene with the big red Vajra crushing the ship that Ranka and Brera were on.
I don't know of any VF that could crush a ship like that.

Macross Quarter. Duh.

[abynormal]

Originally Posted by kilroy0097

The scene with the big red Vajra crushing the ship that Ranka and Brera were on.
I don't know of any VF that could crush a ship like that.

Hmm, I always thought that scene was from Ranka's POV, so she was looking at a Vajra crushing another ship, possibly a VF (it's always so brief that I can't tell).