2009-07-24, 17:25 | Link #1281 | ||||
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I think its borderline SOMETHING that the same guy who reads all this deep mysterioso-ness and enigmatic brilliance in a character off-screen such as a Lacus Clyne is the same person who would chide another for characterizing her based on what is shown on-screen…I swear what she did off-screen trumps it all to you…LOL, you are indeed a similar person…You checkerjump over a lot of peoples’ points to reign based on subjective $hit totally found off-screen…I choose to examine the Lacus Clyne we are shown in the series, and that chick my friend, is no Mid 80’s Russian chessplayer…
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2009-07-24, 18:45 | Link #1282 | ||||
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And quit that supercilious strawman trick. It brings up precisely no points, and it doesn't further your argument one bit. If you want to make general complaints, at least try to back them up with some semblence of examples.
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2009-07-24, 20:31 | Link #1283 |
Beef Fried Rice
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Chicago
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Very true. Duranadal pretty much only had his circle of followers that supported him. Orb and the Kingdom of Scandinavia flat out rejected him right away. The Atlantic Federation, which pretty much represented a 1/4 of the world, tried to question him and look what happened to their president - vaporized without even so much as a word being exchanged. Hell, the PLANTS and the Council were pretty much like "WTF?" When Durandal announced the Destiny Plan, the entire PLANT Supreme Council were caught off-guard. They thought he was going to make a memorial announcement for the victims of the Requiem by Djibril. After Durandal's announcement of the Destiny Plan, he pretty much attacked by his own accord. He no longer went through the Supreme Council. I could go even further and say that the ever faithful puppet, Shinn, was starting to doubt the Destiny Plan - which he did until Rey re-brainwashed him.
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2009-07-24, 23:50 | Link #1284 | |
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Moved posts regarding Lacus' assassination attempt to the Lacus' Assassination (Redux) thread.
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In fact, this would apply more to Durandal than anyone else. At that point in time, he was in the greatest of danger. Much of his governing support had been derived from Clyne supporters - now that Lacus had denounced him as a fraud, that support was soon to evaporate, and PLANT was likely to devolve into civil war. The only way he had of forestalling that was to quickly eliminate Lacus and implement the Destiny Plan. If he failed at either, Lacus' supporters were likely to bring him down sooner or later, and all of his planning would be for nought.
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2009-07-27, 13:45 | Link #1285 | ||||
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Well that was a nice little Friday news-dump…Multi-quote posting alert! (_(
I said he had the world on his side, not that the world agreed with THE DESTINY PLAN…My only point was that if he were to pass something like the DP he’d need the support of millions if not billions…C’mon man get it together… Quote:
Thirdly (Since you’ve screwed this up twice), with pointy-thing scraping against chalk-board as I explain, Dullindal had the support of millions, if not billions with pretty much only Orb and Switzerland being clearly against him (Him being the Zaft-Faith military after the death of Djbril)…To get the DP passed he would need the support of millions, If not billions…Do you get it now? These things aren’t completely exclusive…It just shows you the political capital he had to ATTEMPT at getting the DP passed…Which on a scale makes Lacus “OMGBBQ we he must be pure evil” ridiculous (When like you said, maybe he’d have no-support)…That’s my point, the DP couldn’t do $hit without support therefore it’s not an imminent threat...Maybe the 3rd time is the charm with you…. Quote:
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2009-07-27, 19:52 | Link #1286 | |
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wingdarkness, you seem to think that I'm treating you unfairly. Very well, I'll give you a chance to redeem yourself - please substantiate your statement:
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2009-07-27, 20:14 | Link #1287 | |
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Its kind of like Obama and health care in the US, I guess. Millions support Obama personally, but many of those who happen to be skeptical about his health care plan (such as Democrats in Congress) have no choice but to keep supporting it nevertheless.
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2009-07-27, 20:32 | Link #1289 |
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Orb and the Kingdom of Scandinavia were against the Destiny Plan, sure, but they were also the two countries that stood against Dullindal and his ideals throughout the show, so I don't see why you are making that assumption.
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2009-07-27, 20:37 | Link #1290 |
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That goes for the EA as well, but that country wasn't listed for some reason . The only reason anyone would specifically mention Orb and Scandinavia together (and only them) was because they were shown to be allied in opposition to the Destiny Plan.
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2009-07-27, 20:39 | Link #1291 | |
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They're also the only two countries who are completely devoted to Lacus and Cagalli. And you know who those two have been against for much of the show.
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2009-07-27, 20:47 | Link #1292 | |
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This is how I see it too. Great analogy between Dullindal/Destiny Plan and Obama/Health Care plan - I really think that it fits. Dullindal was quite popular with a lot of people - both in the PLANTS and even on Earth - by the time that he revealed the Destiny Plan. The general mood I got from everyone other than Orb, the Kingdom of Scandinavia, the EA heads, and the Kira/Clyne faction was... "This idea is kind of shocking and freaky... but if Dullindal thinks it's a decent idea, it might be worth a shot". No, not even Shinn was full-blown supportive of the plan, but since the Chairman was behind it... |
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2009-07-27, 21:19 | Link #1293 | ||
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From where do you get the feeling that anyone wanted to give it a shot? It hardly seems to be supported by the show save for a few odd characters like Shinn.
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2009-07-27, 21:31 | Link #1294 | |
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@ 4tran -
brightman totally and easily gets what I'm saying...SO, I'm saying what he's saying... Orb and Scandinavia (It was Switzerland in my head for some reason) were shown as pretty much (outside Djbril's faction) the only entities within the show that wasn't showing support for the guy...If not handcuffed with the premise that Kira and Lacus just being together had enough to destroy him (or his endgame for peace) he may have tried to introduce the plan much more gradually, but with them on the horizon it obviously hastened his plans (This is the sense of "forcing" I'll agree with)...Once even Shinn and Rey were dispatched like a monitor-bug, he snapped and tried to destroy Orb and his own men...THAT's when everything went sour...There's no way to live that down, or edit that clip...Political capital plummets... Dullindal's philosophy as it's presented in the show is that of a man who wants to end war...Be it by deception, be it by some sort of modified fascism or socialism, whatever (Now we all know it stems from Talia leaving his a$$ so that she could have a kid, but he's classic break a few good-eggs to get an omelet everyone can live and eat)...To me it would appear totally against his character to aim his laser AT THE WORLD and tell them to take a flu-shot or die...That's why the DP as the bane to Team Kiracus was beyond terrible, and that's why I can never understand your incredible support for Lacus Clyne's deduction skills on this with the subset being Dullindal "forcing his plan" by imminent threat of death (The "forcing" I won't agree with)...That pretty much goes against everything he tried to establish to get to the point where he could introduce a DESTINY PLAN... Quote:
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2009-07-27, 21:33 | Link #1295 |
Beef Fried Rice
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Chicago
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I think the reaction to the Destiny Plan by the people of Earth and the PLANTs were more of shock, confusion, and maybe even a little bit fear. The counties of Orb and Scandinavia outright rejected it, the Atlantic Federation wanted him to answer some questions and the rest of the world was hesitant.
The thing is, if Durandal did have the support of millions, he wouldn't have had the need to build something like Messiah. Durandal was already predicting that he would have enough opposition to the Destiny Plan that he would require a fortress that came equipped with a nuclear cannon. He also wouldn't have had the need to repair the Requiem. Durandal had planned to forcefully remove any opposition to the Destiny Plan from the very beginning. While it might be true that vaporizing Orb and Scandinavia off the face of the Earth might've brought everyone into line, it would've been at too high of a cost. It's the lives of millions of innocent people who wanted to live their lives as they see fit. The argument could be made that the sacrifice of a few millions lives to bring peace to billions justifies the means but it's not better than what Blue Cosmos and LOGOS were doing. They thought that the world would be more peaceful if Coordinators didn't exist, so they set about trying to destroy the PLANTs. It's still essentially the same as wiping out Orb and Scandinavia so they don't stand in the way of the Destiny Plan. |
2009-07-27, 21:40 | Link #1297 | |
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I don't recall anybody (outside of the those already anti-Dullindal) saying immediately after Dullindal released his plan - "Wow, what an awful plan! This guy has to be stopped!". Heck, even our Atlantic Federation George W. Bush stand-in was taking time to reason it out... People were clearly in awe of the Destiny Plan, and stepping back for a second to try to take it all in, and come to a calm reasoned out assessment of it. Of course, the actions of both sides - Dullindal's side and Kira/Lacus' side - was so quick and furious in taking military action in the immediate aftermath of Dullindal revealing his plan that nobody not already solidly pro or con the plan had enough time to come to a personal conclusion on it. Who knows what the millions - or the billions - of people would have decided? What we do know is that Dullindal had become Obama-esque in his popularity through out the world for taking down Blue Cosmos after successfully getting almost everybody to believe that Blue Cosmos was like a conspiracy theorist's wet dream conception of the Illuminati. Given the weight of that popularity behind Dullindal, I can see a lot of people eventually going along with him when it came to the Destiny Plan. |
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2009-07-27, 21:41 | Link #1298 | |
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2009-07-27, 21:54 | Link #1299 | ||
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Example: The F-ing show WE ALL WATCHED which shows Dullindal gaining world-support throughout his schemes and the gradual progression to that end before unveiling the DP...A plan I never said the world was supporting, but only that he, himself had support from the world ..Jesus Skywalker man...you're so smart you lap yourself... Quote:
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2009-07-27, 22:01 | Link #1300 |
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Join Date: Oct 2006
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The Desinty Plan held promise, IMO. After a long series of battles (with a 1-year-or-so break in between), many people are now willing to try anything in an attempt for lasting peace. While most did not openly support the Plan, they hold an at-worst neutral attitude (and at best, "why not?"). Also, Durandal has made his point: the Requiem IS a big stick, and he has no qualms about using it.
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