Spice and Wolf - Overall Series Impressions & Total Series Rating

[poleno]

Second season has a more solid colors and a slightly quality picture. However, some people say the opposite. Therefore, it’s only my sense, I think.
But backgrounds in the second season are really fantastic. I was a little choked, when I was looking at the cities behind walking Horo in the OP.

Originally Posted by Akka

The only bad points are the quite low production value (the animation is fugly and the drawing is not that good), and Lawrence being a bit too nice to the people who try to kill hime.

Lawrence… He is an interesting person for me. And I like his character because of his mind, reflections and behavior in different situations (mainly in the situations generated by Horo). In addition, he isn’t a “too nice” as he stays ruthless in the dealing, but acts in accordance with the principles of humanity. He is simple "nice".

[BashZeStampeedo]

Originally Posted by poleno

Lawrence… He is an interesting person for me. And I like his character because of his mind, reflections and behavior in different situations (mainly in the situations generated by Horo). In addition, he isn’t a “too nice” as he stays ruthless in the dealing, but acts in accordance with the principles of humanity. He is simple "nice".

Lawrence is definitely a well-crafted character (zing). Holo's interesting, but only because Lawrence is there. I get the impression that we're seeing a version of Lawrence that Holo has been bringing out, much like we're obviously seeing a version of Holo that he's been bringing out.

I'd say he's more meek than "nice". It's heavily implied that he's been a victim of circumstance, and is nice merely because he has to be to succeed in business. You'll notice that every time he gets a chance he turns pretty greedy and tough, and ultimately his meekness and selflessness only surface because he's more worried about Holo than succeeding as a merchant. At times it seems he's actively suppressing his true nature. Mark comments on it in volume 3, and in volume 4 Holo herself is shocked by him and jokingly asks if he's really a wolf.

[Akka]

With both seasons under my belt, I find Lawrence to be a peculiar character.
I find him definitely too nice with people who tries to kill him :

Spoiler:

he helps to put back on its feet a merchand house that tried to kill him, his lover and their friend, I would rather hunt them down than help them personnally...

, but on the other hand I find his greed somehow worrying :

Spoiler:

I wouldn't even consider the very idea of putting my lover in a situation where she can be sold, regardless of the potential benefits, and even without considering the possible dangers.

As such, saying he's meek is definitely a good take on the situation. It somehow detracts on his charm, though - but then, well, for once we don't get a "perfect" protagonist, so I guess it has its own benefits.

[GuidoHunter_Toki]

Originally Posted by Akka

As such, saying he's meek is definitely a good take on the situation. It somehow detracts on his charm, though - but then, well, for once we don't get a "perfect" protagonist, so I guess it has its own benefits.

Well that is what lends a certain realism to his personality. He is not a cutout or typical character, he isn't perfect.

Originally Posted by BashZeStampeedo

Lawrence is definitely a well-crafted character (zing). Holo's interesting, but only because Lawrence is there. I get the impression that we're seeing a version of Lawrence that Holo has been bringing out, much like we're obviously seeing a version of Holo that he's been bringing out.

Well I wouldn't go as far to say neither of them wouldn't be interesting without each other since these are their true personalities not personalities that have been created just through their being together. The thing is people usually act differently in public, interacting with strangers or people they don't know well enough. I'd say people are not always open to being themselves at all times and try to act as what they believe to be acceptable by others. This of course varies between personalities, but I feel the motif is there and happens with most people at some point.

This is how I think Lawrence and Holo are. People will usually act like themselves in privacy and around those they trust and care for. This is why we can see the true Lawrence in Holo's presence and vice versa. Both of them feel more comfortable being themselves around each other and if you notice both tend to act different (put on an act even) around other people. They seem to never truly be themselves unless together.

[BashZeStampeedo]

Originally Posted by GuidoHunter_Toki

Both of them feel more comfortable being themselves around each other and if you notice both tend to act different (put on an act even) around other people. They seem to never truly be themselves unless together.

What's interesting to me is that they almost never act *completely* like themselves, even in front of each other. They're too lonely and timid for that, especially Lawrence. This has a great impact when they DO drop their guards around each other and become honest (a relatively rare event). This is of course used to great effect to show their relationship progressing and give us insight as to why it bothers each of them that things are advancing.

Originally Posted by Akka

I find him definitely too nice with people who tries to kill him :

Spoiler:

he helps to put back on its feet a merchand house that tried to kill him, his lover and their friend, I would rather hunt them down than help them personnally...

That made sense, because:

Spoiler:

What's done is done, and this way he's going to profit in the long-run. He didn't exactly make it easy on them, they were strong-armed into a deal that is beneficial for Lawrence. What benefit would revenge have had? They were already at rock-bottom with nothing to lose. Carrying around a ton of gold after ruining them would NOT be a wise thing for him to do.

Originally Posted by Akka

but on the other hand I find his greed somehow worrying :

Spoiler:

I wouldn't even consider the very idea of putting my lover in a situation where she can be sold, regardless of the potential benefits, and even without considering the possible dangers.

But you see, that wasn't his doing:

Spoiler:

He wasn't going to sell Holo at all. She forced him into it because she wanted to leave him, and it was a trap of sorts to force him into leaving her on good terms. He wasn't going to do it right until the end, when she slapped him. At that point, he knew she wasn't going to accept it, and he'd lose her anyway. So he went ahead and "sold" her, and then managed to find the loophole that would force Holo to keep traveling with him (at great risk to himself, since Abe could have killed him).

Originally Posted by Akka

As such, saying he's meek is definitely a good take on the situation. It somehow detracts on his charm, though - but then, well, for once we don't get a "perfect" protagonist, so I guess it has its own benefits.

Exactly. He's smart, but stupid when he's around Holo.

Spoiler:

He's realizing what he's been working for all his life is right in front of him, and he's been re-evaluating himself because of it (scaring the hell out of Horo in the process).

That kind of subtle and internalized struggle is rare in anime protagonists.

[poleno]

Originally Posted by BashZeStampeedo

I'd say he's more meek than "nice". It's heavily implied that he's been a victim of circumstance, and is nice merely because he has to be to succeed in business. You'll notice that every time he gets a chance he turns pretty greedy and tough, and ultimately his meekness and selflessness only surface because he's more worried about Holo than succeeding as a merchant. At times it seems he's actively suppressing his true nature. Mark comments on it in volume 3, and in volume 4 Holo herself is shocked by him and jokingly asks if he's really a wolf.

Spoiler for Spoiler:

I’m not sure that he had fallen in love before the end of the second season (or near it). And I guess he had traveled with her only for himself before the end of the first. But in the business he stalemates his opponent only to certain limits. May be if he doesn’t turn pretty greedy and tough, he will be simpleton-merchant in the eyes of other merchants. He thought that in the volume 2.
However, ok. I am in doubt. I don’t know about his true nature. I suppose that his greed (it's not a bad greed though) and selfishness only work with that connected with money.

But you see, that wasn't his doing:

Spoiler for Spoiler:

He wasn't going to sell Holo at all. She forced him into it because she wanted to leave him, and it was a trap of sorts to force him into leaving her on good terms. He wasn't going to do it right until the end, when she slapped him. At that point, he knew she wasn't going to accept it, and he'd lose her anyway. So he went ahead and "sold" her, and then managed to find the loophole that would force Holo to keep traveling with him (at great risk to himself, since Abe could have killed him).

I like how one man says that the general idea of this arc – Lawrence doesn’t know what he wants. But knows – what he doesn’t want. And he doesn’t want to lose Horo.

[BashZeStampeedo]

Originally Posted by poleno

I’m not sure that..

Spoiler:

..he had fallen in love before the end of the second season (or near it). And I guess he had traveled with her only for himself before the end of the first.

I not assuming that I'm correct, but based on how the light novels read:

Spoiler:

He's figured out how he feels in Kumerson (by episode 5 or 6), and he spends the next couple volumes trying to figure out what Holo wants. He's desperately trying to avoid saying he loves her, because he thinks she's not ready to hear it (and it turns out that she isn't). That's why he's so embarrased through episode 7, because she keeps reading his thoughts despite his best efforts to hide them.

Originally Posted by poleno

I like how one man says that..

Spoiler:

..the general idea of this arc – Lawrence doesn’t know what he wants. But knows – what he doesn’t want. And he doesn’t want to lose Horo.

I'd phrase it slightly differently:

Spoiler:

He's too practical to give up on his livelihood and future, especially because she hasn't really given him any reason to think she will stay with him after they reach Yoitsu.

But he *is* willing to be with her as long as it takes for her to make a choice, and won't let her go until then.

Originally Posted by poleno

I suppose that his greed (it's not a bad greed though) and selfishness only work with that connected with money.

Yes, given his actions in the first season it's easy to see that he's lucky Holo was with him when he finally had a chance at a "big break". And he knows it. I just didn't see him being greedy at all in the second season.

[Rajura]

To backtrack a bit... I must say I did love Imagin's approach. There was just something about it. I would have been very content if they had done Season II. I would love to hear that they were doing Season III... if it comes. But, consistency is nice and maybe BB has had some growth and learned about ways to improve their approach to animating this series.

As for the current discussion... I tend to steer clear of spoiler tags. Though I know a fair amount about the story thus far... having not gotten Volume XV yet. In general, I am very wary of clicking... just in case there is something I missed or didn't quite catch when reading the first go around.

[BashZeStampeedo]

Originally Posted by Rajura

As for the current discussion... I tend to steer clear of spoiler tags. Though I know a fair amount about the story thus far... having not gotten Volume XV yet. In general, I am very wary of clicking... just in case there is something I missed or didn't quite catch when reading the first go around.

That's why I use them - but then I'm just opining up to volume 5/season 2, I've read nothing further. Feel free, if you'd like to join in. Some people don't like reading other's opinions, even in a summary or rating thread.. so I decided to keep up the spoiler tags. Whether that's necessary or not is beyond me.

[Akka]

As we're talking about the novels : I tend to prefer to discover a story in anime, and not to be spoiled by novels.
So to be sure not to spoil myself by seeing comment about these, just how far went both seasons (in novel's term) ?

[Rajura]

They went through Volume V... kind of skipped Volume IV.

[Vexx]

Volume IV was, as I consult my notes instead of just babbling, mostly skipped over because the animators thought it didn't really advance the core relationship between Horo and Lawrence - it was just "an adventure" so to speak.

So basically, Volume 6 and on are not yet animated.

I've only just ordered volume XV and it'll take me a few months to plow through it with my limited skills once I get it.

[BashZeStampeedo]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Volume IV was more a collection of short stories.

So basically, Volume 6 and on are not yet animated.

I've only just ordered volume XV and it'll take me a few months to plow through it with my limited skills once I get it.

I think you mean volume seven.. wasn't volume four about Enberl and Tereo?

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by BashZeStampeedo

I think you mean volume seven.. wasn't volume four about Enberl and Tereo?

oops... my bad; will edit the post :P

[Spice and Wolf]

Wheres the 11/10 choice?

I realy like the horo style anime, mixing the friskyness of a cat with the cuteness of a young female human.

I have all the novels, although ive only read 2 of them, i mostly watch the show. Outstanding.