2009-11-11, 21:27 | Link #1081 | |
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So maybe Pride is controlling Goldtooth's body to do the transmutation but it will be Roy (through his blood) who ends up going through the doors. I don't even think Bradley will have a chance to tell Roy what to do I think he is going there whether he wants to or not. But thanks you helped me work it out. |
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2009-11-11, 21:31 | Link #1082 |
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Yeah, I've always thought that Roy's blood being on the circle was significant; the fact that he's pinned down there.
I'm still confused, though, with who's transmutating what. I still have no idea... I'm dumb.
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2009-11-11, 21:42 | Link #1083 | |
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I think Pride is forcing Goldtooth to transmute (and I didn't realize it until quigonkenny mentioned mind control). You will also notice that Goldtooth also seems to be bleeding onto the circle. So I think Roy's blood maybe has to mix with Goldtooth's (who is doing the transmutation) to have him reach the portal. |
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2009-11-11, 21:45 | Link #1084 |
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So Roy, in fact, is not doing any transmutation?
He's one weird human sacrifice. I'm actually surprised that Arakawa chose to focus on him like this in the climax, instead of more Ed and Al... Not that I'm complaining
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2009-11-11, 21:52 | Link #1085 |
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I might have a few details here and there mixed up (like I am not sure if Roy & goldie's blood has to mix or if it is okay just to have Roy's blood on the circle) But I think this is the only thing that makes sense.
And we did see Pride can take control of bodies like he did with Al back in vol. 21. |
2009-11-11, 22:23 | Link #1086 |
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I don't think Pride took control of Roy, though. Just Goldtooth, probably. With Wrath holding him down and all... Definately not mentally, either, because you could tell Roy's making some very Roy-like expressions in the last few panels.
Is there anywhere where the rules of transmutation are all written down or something? This is really difficult.
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2009-11-11, 22:26 | Link #1087 | |
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2009-11-12, 01:12 | Link #1089 |
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Wow, wow, wow. Slow down here. This is still just speculation. Nowhere has Pride been shown to be able to mindcontrol a person's body through wrapping them in shadow or whatever the hell he's doing.
Next, has anybody ever been forced to perform a transmutation? Their's no evidence either way as to whether alchemy has to be purposeful or if it can be forced.
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2009-11-12, 05:11 | Link #1090 | |
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Of course, there's no reason to assume that, given a skillful enough alchemist, the desired effect of a transmutation couldn't be manipulated during the process... But that's not what we're talking about here. And I believe Pride suggested when he ate Gluttony that he would gain some of Gluttony's abilities. And he certainly does seem to have gotten more...gluttonous...since then... That does leave the possibility open for Pride to co-opt Goldtooth's or even Kimbley's transmutation ability.
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2009-11-12, 09:07 | Link #1091 | |
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To be clear I don't exactly think Pride is controlling Goldtooth's mind but I think Goldtooth is just a shell of a body at this point and Pride is controlling Gold Tooth's body to do the transmutation. And yes we have seen he could control Al's body so it's not out of the question. In a sense I guess you can say it is really Pride who is doing the transmutation but he is just using Gold Tooth's body to initiate it. Or I guess Pride could just be doing the transmutation completely by himself. I guess we will find out for sure when we see who reaches the portal Roy and.... As for Pride doing transmutation well he did swallow Kimbley. I wonder if this gave him the knowledge. |
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2009-11-12, 18:52 | Link #1092 |
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The biggest problem with this is that if it can't be initiated against the user's will, how the hell is Pride going to make Goldtooth do it? There's quite a few factors here that are out of place if Goldtooth is the one doing the transmuting. First, Pride can't mindcontrol people, so if it is dependent on the will of the alchemist, than Goldtooth still wouldn't be able to use it. He could physically control Al's body by using it as a puppet of sorts. Nothing about controlling his mind. Next, can Homonculus use alchemy? If they could, then they wouldn't have to go through all the trouble of getting five sacrifices. Just get five homonculus to do it, or eat an alchemist and than to it if that's what it takes. Also, everybody who hasn't seen the truth has to actually touch the transmutation circle with their hand in order to transmute. Goldtooth is in the air. There's a reason that Bradley pinned Roy's arm in the center of the transmutation circle instead of just killing him.
Oh, and while rereading the chapter, just before the transmutation happens, Pride looks at Roy and says, "This is the fifth one", and Bradley, who is literally right above Roy, confirms with "The last one."
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2009-11-12, 19:20 | Link #1093 | |
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Well it's either Pride doing the transmutation himself or Pride controlling Goldtooth's body to do the transmutation. There is no other option. And someone has to be performing the alchemy.
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I am also open to the possibility that Pride is not using Gold Tooth's body at all but just completing the transmutation himself. Perhaps transmuting Goldtooth. In fact that probably makes even more sense. Can Pride do alchemy? Well he couldn't originally but it is quite possible after swallowing Kimbley he gained the ability. After all he gained Gluttony's sense of smell after swallowing him. Also I am positive that Roy will reach the doors (and thus become the 5th sacrifice) because his blood is on the transmutation circle. |
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2009-11-12, 21:21 | Link #1094 |
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The way I figured it was that Pride initiated the transmutation due to Kimblee and they are forcing Mustang to go past the gate as he is already in the circle. Pride is opening the gate essentially and Mustang is getting shoved through the door. The Doctor is material or something like that.
Great chapter all together. My main worry is still whether Arakawa can wrap it up before the anime finishes. |
2009-11-13, 16:15 | Link #1095 |
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No, I'm pretty sure you need to open the gate, not just go through it. That's how they've always referred to it (ie: Lust mentioned that Al "opened the gate," not that he went thrugh it.)
If all you needed to do was go through the gate, then Ling and Envy would be sacrifices. Which is why I think Mustang was just forced to open thegate himself (perhaps a combination of his blood on the circle, his hands forced to be pressed down, and the philosopher's stone bradley was holding in his hand were able to be used in tandem to force a transmutation that you normally couldn't force otherwise). |
2009-11-13, 18:04 | Link #1096 |
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Okay, I guess I am no the only one who doesn't understand just what happened to Mustang. I was thinking that Pride and Wrath forced Roy through the gate but then what's the point if he hasn't done human transmutation?
Oh on the other note. Scar and co is going to have a hard time facing both Pride and Wrath. I'm guessing Greed will come back to finish things.
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2009-11-13, 20:22 | Link #1097 |
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Oh, that'll be awesome if Greed shows up.
Also, I'm wondering what that explosion at the end of the chapter was. Do things usually blow up when the gates are opened? And it seemed like Goldtooth's body went flying...
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2009-11-13, 23:48 | Link #1098 | |
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2009-11-15, 04:44 | Link #1100 |
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I think going through the gate is all that you need to become a sacrifice, as long as you're an alchemist (ie. Hohenheim), Ling and Envy don't know anything about alchemy so that doesn't count. I assume one must have enough alchemic knowledge first hand to be able to meet Truth at the other side of the gate.
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