2014-07-11, 18:06 | Link #2401 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
|
Quote:
Just wondering, how many other historical Phase-interaction points do we definitely know of at the moment? Quote:
EDIT: Two more questions.
Last edited by Inept Forum User; 2014-09-19 at 12:32. Reason: Additional questions. One answered elsewhere. |
||
2014-09-19, 05:52 | Link #2402 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Germany
|
i will give you guys a question, it actually fits into this topic, it has to do with a different verse, some of you maybe like it, some of you simply ignore it and other are hating it....
but i think it will start a interesting discussion: Spoiler for question:
what do you guys think? |
2014-09-19, 08:20 | Link #2403 | |
Index III was a mistake
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Sydney, Australia
Age: 32
|
Quote:
Oriana was suspected to be one but she instead wrote grimoires that self destructed on purpose. A defining characteristic of a sorcerer is to pass down information. All that stuff about the Aztec grimoires escapes my mind atm.
__________________
Last edited by OH&S; 2014-09-19 at 08:36. |
|
2014-09-19, 09:46 | Link #2404 | |
Inactive Member
|
Quote:
Hmmm, reality warping can mean many things. Espers for example are reality warpers because they apply their personal reality to the world, but I can't recall if magicians actually warp reality. Is producing fire from your hand reality warping? |
|
2014-09-19, 10:05 | Link #2405 |
Tropes/cliché expert
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: The one place you didn't think of.
|
Normal magic isn't technically reality warping. It's a power used for those without talent to keep up with those who have it, so it cultivates natural energy and recreates miracles based on past events--hence idol theory. That said, magic CAN be used to warp reality, like Fiamma correcting the the inconsistencies in the world's elements and summoning Gabriel or the very existence of magic gods.
__________________
|
2014-09-19, 11:31 | Link #2406 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Germany
|
Quote:
the only thing is that spers can do that everytime, and magicians needs preparations, in toaru they use legends and the Idol theory... in naruto it would be the hand seals, the scrolls to summon weapons and animals etc. but doesnt this remember on all the things magicians from toaru could do (with the correct preparation)? im sure othinus could have created susanoos and rasengans (the only difference would be that instay of chakra they use mana) the naruto-verse reality warpig would be limited like esper powers (because of certain limits of their body and energy (chakra)) but still have many applications lik toaru-magic @silverexorcist Quote:
i mean, look a that, magic creates fire with preparation based on idols, the "fuel" to create this fire is mana, which "runs" through the created system (the preparation) and warps reality so that the magician can create fire (or water or earth or food or control animals or summon a susanoo or control minds)... espers are using their own reality and change the rules of a specific part of our reality which allows them to create fire (or other stuff) and the stronger the distortion (means: the more laws are changed by the PR) the more versalite and strong are the espers ability.... of ocurse they have different "roots" but in the end both are warping reality to do what they should do |
||
2014-09-19, 12:14 | Link #2407 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Spain
|
Quote:
Magicians instead refine their life force into mana to use magic, and magic in Index is basically based on Idol theory (with Infection Magic sometimes), gaining power through the imitation of idols, usually using spiritual items. Magic follows different rules than normal phenomena but they still follow rules and only people like Magic Gods (and other extremely powerful magicians like Fiamma or Aleister) could be called reality warpers. Naruto's Chakra is similar to mana in that is an energy formed by humans by joining mental and physical energy but the process to use that energy is very different. This is all natural to the world since all living things have chakra and nature itself has natural energy that can be harnessed by training. Ninja and others manipulate the shape and nature of chakra by handseals without the need of other tools or idols. The only thing in Naruto close to reality warping would be the Yin-Yang release that can be used to create things from nothingness like the Six Path Hermit did with the Bijuu or the Izanagi technique. Handseal and summons wouldn't count as preparations since they can be used in the middle of combat just fine unlike say a magic circle, temple, rune cards, summoning, or the creation of a spiritual tool in Index. Sealing techniques might be similar to runes since they also require drawing characters but we have also seen sealing techniques that only require handseals. Really just because both series use an energy system like most fantasy series do is not enough to say they are similar. For example you wouldn't say magic in Harry Potter or Fairy Tail is similar to Index's magic, would you? Quote:
|
||
2014-09-19, 13:10 | Link #2408 | |||||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Germany
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
and izzard was also able to change existing things + his ability was outright said, he changd reality, it was in a manner which magicians also do but normally they are super-restricted because of the rules of their systems (the limits of their idol theory systems)... Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
like: creating fire which doesnt hurt you but your enemy, this isnt possible, the rules of the magicians system has changed the rules of reality, the magician has made a minor reality warping... im not saying that magic is the same as esper powers (they have different roots and laws + different ways energys to warp reality (magic = mana/chi/ki/telesma, espers = aim) but im certain that it is reality warping because of the stuff i mentioned above |
|||||||
2014-09-19, 13:28 | Link #2409 | |
I’m sorry, Kamijou-san!!
Join Date: May 2013
Location: California
|
Quote:
Also, magic in this series is way different from magic in any other series. I can't think of any example that comes even close to it. This actually makes sense and is vastly different from other systems. It isn't just arbitrarily defined at nice times for plot convenience. It has rules and it follows it--going beyond the usual concept of Magic A is Magic A... to something much more rigorous than that. Another big difference between Magic here and Harry Potter Magic is that Magic can't be gamed. In Harry Potter, magic could have been easily gamed if people tried hard enough to do so... |
|
2014-09-19, 13:58 | Link #2410 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: somewhere in Asia
|
Not really, in Index case, what the magician do is simply taking copy from the phase, which is idol theory,magic take form from an already warped phases, in Esper case, you could say that they truly warp the reality by their own power, no need to mimic after anything.
|
2014-09-19, 14:12 | Link #2411 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Germany
|
Quote:
we know that magicians are using idol stuff etc but: lets take the cuthulu magic, it was stated in the SS that it allowed ( only because of different magic systems (fused toghter)) to create something from nothing (literally)... or izzards case, alchemy has the idea of turning a human into a god through training (magic), and in izzards case it actively gaved him reality warping powers... or the aztek magician, the light of the venus cant kill anything if we are in the realms of normal reality laws, but because magic bends/twists/temporary replaces the rules of reality, magic is possible... isnt this proof enough to see that magic is reality warping with rules like esper powers are (despite the different origins)... @dniv Quote:
Quote:
|
|||
2014-09-19, 19:09 | Link #2413 | |||||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Spain
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
As I said: Right now the novel hasn't said if all magic is reality warping. Until then it's just speculation in your part. |
|||||||
2014-09-19, 19:45 | Link #2414 |
Tropes/cliché expert
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: The one place you didn't think of.
|
Ugh...I was busy for some hours and I fell behind in the discussion...Well, after reading through everything, I think we should clarify what magic IS, in a general sense. I suggest everyone refers to NT2, since Birdway does a fantastic job of explaining why the magic in Raildex works based on a system like no other series you can reference.
Simply put, magic is performed by gathering natural essence from your surroundings, cultivating it into your body, converting it into 'magical power' (lacking a better word, there...) and then using this power via the user's choice of a medium or outlet. The theories used to convert the essence vary based on religion and such, and there are infinite possibilities for an outlet (like your fingers, a staff, rune cards, so on and so forth). We know the whole cultivation and conversion part are accurate specifically because of Lancis from New Light, who gets that ticklish feeling whenever she's kneading magic within her and laughs randomly. If anyone has any problems with that brief and somewhat shallow summary, speak up. I at least think that much gets across the general concept. My point? Basically, magic is what you would get if you converted the natural essence of the world into something else. So it's expected that Imagine Breaker would work on it--it would return magic back into that natural essence. But I really don't think that counts are reality warping. Since untalented people discovered how to do it, it is really similar to how humans have discovered how to warm food up and boil water by using fire. It's a process that gives a result via a series of steps (a system), but reality isn't actually being WARPED. If I were to get even more technical, I'd point out that idol theory would be contradicted if magic was reality warping. The idea of idol theory is basically having magic spells increase in power due to precedence, following the rules set by a previous case. Think of it like rolling a ball down a flat path toward a specific destination and then rolling that same ball down a rut already dug out heading to the same destination--naturally, the latter gives the desired result more easily and is less likely to roll in a different direction. If reality was being warped, I'd magic as causing all kinds of distortions and inconsistencies in said reality, making the idea that following precedence to get the desired result even more unlikely. Plus, if we take the religious point of view into account, with the Christians performing miracles based on Christ and the Norse mages using magic reminiscent of the gods themselves, it would only seem more natural, since the gods would basically be natural entities on a high plane of existence.
__________________
|
2014-09-20, 13:24 | Link #2417 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Germany
|
Quote:
bearthing isnt the only way to refine life force into mana, but they (as far as i know) always refine life force into mana, even if the methods are different and even if they use conepts like feng shui ("natural energy"-stuff) |
|
2014-09-21, 01:22 | Link #2418 | ||||
english for dummies 2 ed.
Join Date: Oct 2009
|
i have some problems when i talking about the magic side(f*ckig cthulhu)..but .who cares...
Quote:
it doesn't matter if you are using the "natural essence of the world", you are changing/using these "essence" for you own plans(view)/your give form to these energies so you change your surroundings. you just cant create fire under the water without changing the reality(or using science/machines), man Quote:
Quote:
if they/someone use legends/idols for magic they can create a lot of thing..but the bases for /result of these spells are changing along with the years/versions. .....they can create a lot of different things with the same concept ...so .i don't see the the point in looking for the "laws of mass " Quote:
but i can speculate that if lower beings come into our reality the can exist under special boundaries.
__________________
|
||||
2014-09-21, 11:49 | Link #2419 | ||
I’m sorry, Kamijou-san!!
Join Date: May 2013
Location: California
|
Quote:
It seems possible that Kamachi read Perry Rhodan and was influenced by it and made his own spin on that sort of evolutionary model. After all, Perry Rhodan has sold over one billion copies worldwide and is apparently the most successful science fiction book series ever written. (It was first published in 1961 in Germany and is still ongoing... it sounds interesting.) However, at least as far as the Onion-shell model of evolution goes: the highest level of power on the scale are the cosmocrats and the chaotarchs (the high powers). The description of the "high power" which is given is the following: Quote:
Aiwass can't speak certain words or communicate certain knowledge because human language can't account for it. Aiwass also mentions that his body has a transformation feature for some purpose. Ignoring the fact that the above explanation refers to beings that exist on a universal level as opposed to a planetary level... the idea of phases separating the dimensions and the magic gods mentioning that they can't just roam about and may be stuck in that warped phase... implies that there could be a connection/similarity here. Though this could be coincidence and it just so happens that all attempts to make something more cool than just pure power ends up having to exist in some parallel dimension or "phase..." |
||
2014-09-21, 12:56 | Link #2420 | ||
english for dummies 2 ed.
Join Date: Oct 2009
|
Quote:
if they choose to enter in their full glory/powers/reality...they are going to destroy reality.(its like destroying/forcing a glass bottle through/by pressure) aiwass can enter in the first part + she is "summoned" by aleisteir ,so she is under the lower world/dimension law(or she adjusting herself to this world.... ) Quote:
about the " magic god phase"..i believe that there are more phases than the magic god phase or the phases that othinus destroyed.... and, i am not talking about "reals gods"/angel phase...but a/few dimension under the direct control of god/gods/or godless (like the normal world..but without the interference of the magic gods powers)
__________________
|
||
Tags |
hard science |
Thread Tools | |
|
|